12-03-2002, 09:03 PM #1
Slin- Someone convince to give it a shot or leave it alone
I've been reading about slin a bunch lately. I have 4 cycles under my belt, and I've tried several different anabolics with great success. I wanna know more about slin. I have done a bunch of searches, and read a bunch about it, but I don't really feel convinced its worth the risks. What are your thoughts guys? If and when you have done Slin, what were your goals, and why did you pick slin vs. something else? I have never done slin or hgh, and not sure I ever will. I just wanna here what you guys that have done slin think about it. Its so easy to get ahold of and cheap, but it kinda freaks me out a little.
12-03-2002, 10:03 PM #2Banned
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- wouldn't you like to know
Research more, once you do you'll realize how it is very easy to use safely as long as you know what your doing.
I had zero side-effects from slin
Take it while on a cycle for maximum effectiveness.
Don't take it unless you are able and dedicated enough to time out fat-free meals. It's not for the "average" gear user. Its for those who wanna take it to the next level.
I know teens that use slin safely with great results. If they can, you can. Keep reading
12-03-2002, 10:26 PM #3New Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
Just started slin yesterday so ill def keep you updated! First time just take Post Workout.... read read read... then i'm sure you'll be cool.
12-03-2002, 10:43 PM #4Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
Read insulin .txt from the educational threads. Here is the link.
I've done slin because HGH just about requires it. With responsible, respectful use you'll be fine. If you are a moron or just play with it, it can kill you. If you have ANY questions ask. Don't assume anything.
12-03-2002, 11:09 PM #5I know teens that use slin safely with great results.
12-04-2002, 07:35 AM #6
Thanks guys, good info, Why use it though? What's it gonna do for me?
12-04-2002, 07:50 AM #7Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
Slin transports and stores nutrients. It will take the protein you eat and store it in muscles. This extra boost of protein gives the muscles more ability to grow. However, slin also transports fats to fat cells, and it will convert excess carbs to fat, and store that also. If you take HCA with the slin shot, you can prevent the slin from converting carbs to fat (I don't know how high you can take the carbs before 750mg HCA becomes ineffective, but I've gone up to 200mg in my post slin shake without without gaining fat). To prevent it from transporting dietary fat to the fat cells, don't eat any fat for 2 hours before the shot, and wait till 1 hour after the activity of the slin shot ends.
Slin and AAS are synergistic. You get more than the sum of the parts out of it. From insulin .txt:
INSULIN AND ANABOLIC STEROIDS
Of course when everyone thinks of bodybuilding drugs anabolic steroids (AS) are the first things to come to mind, but how do they work with insulin? VERY WELL! AS decrease insulin induced fat accumulation through a number of ways. One is through creatine synthetase, which is an enzyme that goes crazy after workouts trying to store carbohydrates in the muscles (as glycogen, creatine phosphate etc.). For every gram of carbohydrate stored in muscle, roughly four grams of water go along with it (this is how creatine monohydrate achieves such dramatic results). How does this relate to insulin and AS? Well, the "harder" AS (exemplified by oxymethelone) increase creatine synthetase levels dramatically, giving insulin a place to do its' job and store carbohydrates. Okay, this also counts for a combined anabolic effect, but it prevents insulin from converting any "excess" carbohydrate in to fat (which would subsequently be stored)! AS also decrease levels of the main fat storage enzyme that insulin increases (called lipoprotein lipase). A big effect is through glucocorticoid antagonism, which means that AS indirectly increase insulin sensitivity (as well as act anti-catabolically). This allows insulin to bind to its' receptors more easily and accomplish its' job rather, than converting more macronutrients in to fat. Finally, the demand for nutrients by muscles is so high, in an AS enhanced state, that there is rarely any excess of nutrients to actually be stored as fat! A mere 400 mgs of enanthate didn't allow me to accumulate fat whether I was using insulin or not.
From a muscular anabolic perspective, there is a synergistic effect between AS and insulin. This is because they both directly stimulate protein synthesis as well as other mechanisms. One such mechanism involves AS hepatic mediated somatomedin release. Simply put: IGF-1 production in the liver. Again, the more powerful the AS, the more IGF-1 release, with orals having a much greater effect than injectables. Insulin increases the duration of time that IGF-1 is active in the bloodstream, and enhances receptor mediated IGF-1 activity (all through enhancing specific IGF-1 binding proteins). Another great combined effect is that insulin reduces the amount of Sex Hormone Binding Proteins (SHBP) in the blood stream. This allows more AS to be active and do their job of making you grow! Great effects were seen while using 10 units of insulin only three times a week, with AS. For the first few weeks of my next cycle I'm not going off the stuff, and I expect the effects to be scary!
Insulin has one of the highest potentials for danger of all bodybuilding drugs. It shouldn't be screwed around with.
INSULIN AND GROWTH HORMONE
Growth hormone (GH) is one of the most sought after bodybuilding drugs due to its' legendary abilities to strip off body fat and increase muscle mass. The former is accomplished through direct lipolysis (fat release from adipocytes), which GH does to an incredible degree. Muscle mass acquisition is accomplished through: the direct stimulation of protein synthesis, increasing amino acid uptake by muscle cells, and by greatly stimulating IGF-1 synthesis in the liver. It is this last point that is of interest to us because it is the main anabolic mechanism for GH, and it is also where insulin comes in to play. More than half of GHs' anabolic effect is due to IGF-1 production, but unfortunately this is quite often wasted. This is because IGF-1 has an extremely short half life in the bloodstream, so it usually doesn't reach many target tissues (muscles for our interest) to exert maximum anabolic effect. To rectify this situation, insulin can be used to increase the amount of an IGF-1 binding protein (specifically IGF1-BP3) that actually helps IGF-1 to reach the muscles and exert its' extreme anabolism. Insulin also reduces the amount of "bad" IGF1 BP's, (BP's 2 and 4) that would normally interfere with IGF-1 uptake and use by muscle. To say that there is a synergistic effect between insulin and GH doesn't do the combination justice. It makes me shudder to think of the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on GH, without using it to the maximum anabolic potential. From a fat loss perspective, GH is incredible. It should directly negate the lipogenic effect of insulin, leaving you with one KICK ASS combination.
INSULIN AND HCA
Getting straight to the point, unless you are a moron and are eating fat during insulin use, or you have crappy insulin sensitivity, HCA is the second most effective fat gain inhibitor next to clenbuterol (which is only more effective due to its' ridiculously long half life). Hydroxy Citric Acid (HCA) is the main ingredient in Citrimax, and is a bargain in terms of its': relative effectiveness (when using insulin), cost (cheap, cheap, cheap), and availability. It works by inhibiting an enzyme called ATP citrate ly(s)ase (ACL), which basically converts ingested carbs to fat (which insulin promptly stores). This is normally NOT a big deal since ACL levels are normally low in most humans. However, insulin drastically increases ACL levels (which should make sense based on what you now know about insulin) accounting for most of the, responsible use, fat gain associated with insulin use. This is the most exciting find since the discovery of insulin as an anabolic! Using insulin and not gaining fat while gaining muscle? What a concept! Although I don't like to go into the details of use directly, I believe it is warranted here. 500-750mgs HCA should be taken with or within half an hour after the insulin shot. The usually recommended 250mgs is ineffective in dealing with the drastic increase in ACL levels. The HCA is taken with the shot because both start to work on about one half hour, so the HCA can begin to be effective at the same time that insulin is trying to increase ACL levels. This regimen (only 3X500mgs HCA) prevented fat gain during a day when I used 3 separate insulin shots! To make things even better there is a mild glycogen storage property associated with HCA use. Since ingested carbs cannot be converted to, or stored as, fat, they are generally stored (due to insulin) as glycogen in muscle giving the user a mild but noticeable pump (similar to the first day of creatine use). To end this portion of the list, I give HCA my highest recommendation as the number 1 supplement to use with insulin!
STATEMENT ABOUT PERMANENT INSULIN DEPENDANCE
This potential side effect has been WAY too hyped by the anti-insulin propogandists. The idea of your own pancreas shutting down insulin production due to exogenous use is silly, and requires massive irresponsible use over extended time periods. Using myself as an example, I've been using insulin for 7 months straight. "WHAT?! Why did my pancreas not explode long ago?" You ask. For a simple reason: responsible use. I think that peoples fear of becoming dependant on insulin stems from minor knowledge about the testosterone feedback loop and AS cycles. Another part of this moronic recipe is peoples'ignorance about their own body and that brilliant bullshit anti-insulin propaganda. Quick lesson. Your body(beta cells of the pancreas)produces insulin in response to increased serum glucose levels, specific amino acids etc. As long as you don't shut this mechanism down from exogenous insulin use for long periods of time there should be no pr!oblems(unless you're fucked to begin with). This means that you'd have to use insulin for 12 hours a day(3 perfectly spaced out shots)for over three months while insuring that you are not stimulating endogenous insulin production. Only a moron could do this which makes me wonder why it doesn't happen all the time). Another problem could arise if one uses an insulin shot every day at the same time for months on end. For example if one did a shot upon arising for many months, prior to eating. After a while the body would become conditioned(due to external/internal cues) to not produce insulin at that time. [note:I used morning insulin shots for 4 months without adverse effects] This situation could be easily remedied by tapering down the dosage of insulin over a period of weeks (although I hesitate to make the connection with AS). The bottom line is that using insulin before/after workouts for any length of time will not shut down the beta cells for long enough to cause this !problem. Remember that the beta cells are normally shut do!wn for at least 8 hours a day, while
sleeping, and this happens for 80 years without adverse effect.
INSULIN USE: IS IT WORTH IT?
Although I despise the anti-insulin propaganda, which I have contributed to in the past, it does have some merit. Personally I wouldn't care about people dying from insulin use, if only it didn't expose this drug in a negative light. I simply see insulin screwups as somebody sticking shit into their bodies that they know nothing about(meaning: it is on 8 thier 8 head).But in my position I have to wonder why the person tried the stuff in the first place. Lately I've been quite curious about peoples'insulin use because, to be honest, the shit just isn't that great! Don't get me wrong I'd never recommend another AS cycle without it, and you'd have to be a moron to spend $8000. on GH without learning the finer points of insulin use...but there's no reason for people to be using this stuff on a "try it and see" basis. Personally I wouldn't let some guy in an article stop me from trying this normally safe (with responsible use) drug, and I would never try to dis!suade anyone who "has to know" that it is like. But seriously, there's no other reason, for anyone not trying to maximize muscle mass, to use this drug. I don't like it but it's the truth, so I have to report it. For me(the genetic loser of the century), insulin doesn't do much without AS. I will always use it as a training aid, but that's only because I've already gone through the bullshit of planning out my body's reaction to the stuff. I also like the fact that I've come to know my body better than I could have without insulin, but that's only because I've had (too) many sugar crashes to help me feel my serum glucose status. To end this depressing section I have to restate that this is not intended as some "life-saving", anti-insulin propaganda. I'm just stating that insulin doesn't do that much (notable exceptions already mentioned) and certainly doesn't deserve all the hype (good or bad). [I think I'm going to cry now.]
12-04-2002, 09:23 AM #8
Great Post Mastiff!!
01-13-2004, 08:45 AM #9
Is that the HCA i see at GNC or something different?
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