Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    dee3 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    18

    another sust question

    i have read about the eod sus shot. would you have to take 750 mg per week or can you do eod with 500 mg. would that be enough prop to be effective.

  2. #2
    Madmax's Avatar
    Madmax is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    boom town
    Posts
    1,743
    every other day would mean that you have to take mon wen fri...thats the way i do it...Madmax...

  3. #3
    Animal Cracker's Avatar
    Animal Cracker is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Va Beach
    Posts
    3,229
    EOD injections of Sus are for the benifit of the Prop...many people use 500mg per week and get considerable gains, but IMO 750 is the minimum needed to take full advantage of Sust.

  4. #4
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    I agree with Madmax and BamaSlamma. If you do it too low you'll simply fluctuate too much... you want a nice solid level of release for less sides and better gains. IMO, Sustanon is used too much in new cycles where another Test would be better to replace it.

    If you wanted EOD @ 500mg it would be better to run it 250 ED.

    If you are asking how much to use, you need to give more info for the braddahs to recommend a stack.

  5. #5
    nj_'s Avatar
    nj_
    nj_ is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,408
    Personally, when I refer to sust being run EOD, I mean EOD as in SATURDAY and SUNDAY too. I don't know if other people feel EOD as in Mon/Wed/Fri is adequate, but I believe in EOD means EVERY OTHER DAY PERIOD. This is why I do not advise sust to newbies because you need to have several cycles under your belt before you should be needing to run test at those dosages.

    As for your situation, what did your past cycles look like?

  6. #6
    dee3 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    18
    my past cycles was a decca only cycle and a decca/cyp cycle.
    at 500 mg a week i would only get about 60 mg of prop per week and at every other day i would only be getting about 15 mg every two days.
    how much prop should be taken in an eod period.

  7. #7
    dee3 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    18
    How would a sus cycle be with 750 mg of sus a week at a shot eod for 7 weeks, while running eq at 400 mg for 12 weeks. would this be a good stack.

  8. #8
    popa's Avatar
    popa is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    I KEEP IT ON MY KITCHEN T
    Posts
    1,232
    Originally posted by nj_
    Personally, when I refer to sust being run EOD, I mean EOD as in SATURDAY and SUNDAY too. I don't know if other people feel EOD as in Mon/Wed/Fri is adequate, but I believe in EOD means EVERY OTHER DAY PERIOD. This is why I do not advise sust to newbies because you need to have several cycles under your belt before you should be needing to run test at those dosages.

    As for your situation, what did your past cycles look like?
    so your saying EOD as in every single day or mon/wed/fri/sat/sun

  9. #9
    dee3 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    18
    I would split the 750 mg into equal shots and shoot eod as i would need to do with the eq anyway.

  10. #10
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Originally posted by popa


    so your saying EOD as in every single day or mon/wed/fri/sat/sun
    He is saying EOD as in don't forget the weekends too. As in EOD... not just M-W-F. To break it down... M-W-F-Su-Tu-Th-Sa-M-W-F-Su-Tu-Th-Sa-M... ... ... ...

  11. #11
    popa's Avatar
    popa is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    I KEEP IT ON MY KITCHEN T
    Posts
    1,232
    ahhh thx warrior... I guess he means EOD as in EOD... lol dam I feel like a dum ass, GUESS ITS JUST ONE OF THOSE DAY FOR ME AGAIN
    Last edited by popa; 12-11-2002 at 11:10 PM.

  12. #12
    dee3 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    18
    so yall are saying one amp of sus eod(mon, wed, fri, sun, tue)
    or could you just use the three amps and inject eod, would three be sufficient for one week, say i would shoot .75mg eod

  13. #13
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Originally posted by dee3
    so yall are saying one amp of sus eod(mon, wed, fri, sun, tue)
    or could you just use the three amps and inject eod, would three be sufficient for one week, say i would shoot .75mg eod
    Bro - you making it too complicated. Sust is made for BB's running higher levels of Test. Just get some Cyp (once every 4-5 days) or Enth (once a week) and make life simple.

  14. #14
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    This is old and it looks like the same story over again....
    Hey little brother why are taking sus? I hope not for the prop... sos and sus weren't made for eod injections once or twice a week bro... You need to read about half life of the androgens you’re putting in your body. Once again the sos was made for the eager beaver. You can’t wait for the cyp and enanth to kick in so the prop helps you out... "Helps you out" sos is a mix of longer releasing esters with a short acting kick. I don’t know how your metabolism is or if you were the big kid on your block but if you can’t grow on 500mg a week you’re eating poorly and your receptors are worn.
    Just me I don’t cycle anymore I stagger but in my glory a favorite of mine:
    Hit the sos 500mgs for 2-3 weeks then drop it, grab a t100 (new to me but not new now I always got my doc to help but you’re in luck bro...because now there’s prop/brovel 10ml 100mg per)and eod hit 100mg for two weeks get an over the counter diuretic "animal cut works ok" then drop it(the prop stay with the diuretic, If all you have is eq well "eq is for women" too much sesame in your ass use deca "same shit less oil " you need to read bro, fuck EQ" hit the d200 400mg for 3 weeks the come down to 200mgs a week and drop. drop your complex carbs too only greens hit your <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>s 2g per lb of body weight come back to the sos 500mgs for 3 weeks clean diet taper to 250 then hit the deca at 200mgs and hit the HCG and a little nolvodex. Then stop if your you, me would stay with the 200mg a week until my next cycle, you gotta know what you’re doing though bro. on this web site they have good descriptions and lit on the gear your taking. remember food too dude, with out that you're going no where. At least 4000 cals a day for that cycle at least.
    sorry for any grammer mistakes I'm dyslexic
    Last edited by mmaximus25; 12-12-2002 at 01:44 AM.

  15. #15
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Clinically Sus250 can be shot at much less of a frequency. But as Bodybuliders it wouldn't make sense to run it once per week fopr many weeks... you would get constant fluxes in Test from the Prop. Enth or Cyp would be a better choices in my opinion.

    If you wish to jump start do a frontload, or use a shorter half life for the first few weeks like Prop or another androgen like Dbol .

    As in:

    Weeks 1-10 Test Enanthate 500mg
    Weeks 1-4 Test Prop EOD

    Running Sust250 at once per week for 8 or 10 weeks does not seem like the right thing to do in this type of treatment. We are not talking HRT here.

  16. #16
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    dee3,
    Another note, go to the drug profile listing on the web site, It will help you. not to bash EQ, but even if you can get boldenon 200 @10ml 200mg per You should still be able to get deca norandren 200 10ml 200mg per but 2 bottles compared to the only 2000mg of EQ. Another thing, sit down and look at your goals, are you an athlete, do you participate in any sport, football? Body building or are you just trying to improve your physic. If you’re the last, let me give you some advice and experiment with what you got at low dosages first. There are different theories for different people, if you’re tracking in college-(track & field), you don’t want any fucking water, which you'll get from enanthate or cypionate . Athletes use sustenon and prop mainly because with a clean diet all you see is lean muscle growth. If your a newbie and your taking test and eating like shit your gonna get bloated bro. Another thing you should consider is the cost of your gear...Your talking to someone that staggers-meaning I don’t get off. T200 (enanthate 200mg per) is cost effective but pay attention to your diet more than anything. I know your sustanon isn't cheap but it is cleaner and you shouldn’t hold a lot of water (with good diet)
    sorry just me-I don’t think newbie’s can gauge how test does in there bodies, newbie’s should start with milder androgens and shorter acting ones, d-bol, deca, winny tha poo, never knock a d-bol deca high that’s for sure bro... final sugg... experiment with your body. See how you do on a single AS type of test, throwing shit together and jumping on your buddy’s cycle isn’t exactly smart. To become and expert on your body see how it reacts to stand alone AS type. Then go back to those profiles and tell me how true they are, at least to your body. People like to read and talk, but they don’t know unless they’ve guinea pigged… Look at what you shove down your throat too bro...I hate see a waste of juice so remember all those protein fibers that get ripped up during training need to be replaced so for gods sake eat more than1g of protein per lb of body weight(1.5g to 2)
    That changes everything...we're not the same. Give me sustanon any day over enanthate or cypionate I know how its gonna work in me. All AS aren't equal but they each have a purpose per training style and diet. If your like me and need a low body fat year around you don’t have time for people to see you bloat up, even on a good diet with enanthate and cyp you will see water and fat. Diuretic and lowing your complex carbs is the only thing that’s going to help that, with i.e. "reg. test"
    Gotta go to work biggin’
    MM
    "

  17. #17
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    On that note, I would say the sides from taking it in such as irregular pattern would increase acne and sides... so buyer beware. Yes, Enth will give you water - take Arimidex to block it.

    Otherwise Test is Test - and whethr you are taking a long ester or a short ester - 500mg per week is 500mg per week. Esters like Prop and even Cyp give you more control of what's happening though, with the shorter half lives.

    mmaximus25, you probably experience less water bloat from Sust250 because the only real effects you get from the isocarpate (60mg) and deconate (100mg) while the propionate (30mg) and phenylpropinate (60mg) just give you a day or so of higher Test - an uneven peak. So really the only test components you are getting at a stable level measure out to 160mg of test per shot. If you took one - well yeah, 160mg of test won't cause too much water gain. If you took two - same shit for most folks. But if you took at least 3, the way an athlete that uses Sust as a steroid should, you would now be getting an even level of 750mg of Androgens - A BIG DIFFERENCE. EOD would insure the propinate hits on time, but at least M-W-F would create some level of stability.

    On a side note, if you need to maintain low bodyfat even when bulking then adjust your cycles, Prop/Tren , Eq/Winny... use Arimidex during Tests.

    I just don't see where your argument is over taking Sust250 as someone would a longer ester. Like you said, "This is old and it looks like the same story over again...."

    I think many only have access to one Testosterone option and their hooks up make it sound cool -

    Source: "It's 4 tests in one dude!"
    Newbie: "Really? Cool. How many do I need"
    Source: "You should get at least 24 and run it 8 weeks."
    Newbie: "But I only have $125..."
    Source: "Okay - cool! Give me that... take one a week, here is 8."

    And another one bites the dust with the wrong gear - comes to AR and figures out theat they should wait until they have more for even androgen blood levels
    Last edited by Warrior; 12-12-2002 at 01:49 PM.

  18. #18
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266

    misunderstood

    Warrior,
    I think you have it wrong with where I'm coming from. My statement about "this being old" is it seems people are taking sustanon according to the life cycle of the propionate . Which is foolish...the reason for my posts were to let people know they need to learn their bodies, and experiment, we're all different
    ex. (for me to totally shut down my own production of test with enanthate I was using 600mg of enanthate a week. This is not comparable for most of my friends, they start @ 2000mg for the 1st half of their cycles which is usually in their master mix, which is different for each. My nature production of test is high when I was 24 I had a level tested at over a 700 scale. I can't remember if thats a production rate total or production scale to cycle.... That’s why I can take 200mg of enanthate and for some one else is comparable to 600mgs. I can take over 200mg of prop a day and still have my boys working, this is just an example of me) Every ones test percentage is a little aparent seeing ones frame and size before the juice. 500-600 is average I think.

    I think you’re well thought out but the human body just doesn't react the way your stating about the "uneven peak" there is no such thing as a stable amount of androgens, you don’t want a stable amount, I've been juicing for 5 years now, 3yrs cycling and these last two staggering. The whole reason I stagger is so I continue to introduce a new androgens into my body year around ableing me to use lower dosages and out perform the higher dosed cycling user. We are all different especially with how much testosterone our bodies produce naturally. I'll make it simple; your body reacts to those androgens in sustanon in a given time. The reasoning behind sustanon is to have your receptors hit by different androgen at a given time so it doesn’t get use to the same one. You want to be unstable, which is the reasoning behind the oldest cycle theory in the book, start low climb and taper. The beauty of sustanon is that you don’t have to climb to a 1000mg state. Your body is being dosed at time release periods due to the ester each androgen is given. Your receptors should not get worn out. Meaning you can stay on sustanon longer and climb slow and your receptors will keep on retrieving those four androgens in given order.
    I don’t want to argue with you... what works for you just may not for others...but what you wrote sounds like your reading from a book instead of guinea pigging...Its good to read but figure out how you work too...
    And “athlete”... come on bro, dosages and AS change to your sport.

    You’re a smart guy but all I wanted to say is I hope that dude isn’t taking the sustanon for the propionate in it. Because it sounded like he was shooting mainly for that prop dose.
    I love prop by its self, it’s always in my stagger at least 10 or 12 times a year.
    You are right about people not able to get the proper gear, so no real comment, I'm better off than most then, which sucks; every one should be able to try a larger spectrum.
    MM
    goodnight
    Last edited by mmaximus25; 12-13-2002 at 01:52 AM.

  19. #19
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Ok. I stil don't quite understand your theory on it. I am not trying to argue with you - I am tryin to lay the Sustanon debate to rest...

    I am not saying what works for me, I am saying what works as a dosage for the general ATHLETE and not as HRT. Just the facts brah...

    BTW - your natural t levels are a frickin' sin

    What I am trying to figure out is why someone would consider Sust250 at once or twice per week for 8-10 week cycles. As you explain it - you want to stager your levels - you want instability. So would a cycle like this make sense to you - by how you see it? :

    Weeks 1-10 Test Enanthate 400mg
    Weeks 1-10 Test Prop 200mg every other week

    And fuck all the book noise - yeah I read. And I read from many sources so i can draw my own conclusions. Knowledge is power - learn from other peoples experiences and conclusions so we can move forward and not just chase our tails. And this board helps out a lot for this very reason.

    As far as AAS - I am personally, still putting together everything from books and from folks here... so we aren't argueing, simply beatin' the dead horse some more. Trying to lay this topic to rest... so let's get back to Sustanon shall we?

    Does that cycle above agree with your conclusions?

  20. #20
    H.pYl0ri is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    116
    So Warrior You've never done a cycle? If so then with Sust or omnadren ?
    mmaximus25, good posts. I'm new to all this and just got everything for my cycle but read alot and posted a few times to ask specific questions. I, although have not guinnee'd yet but will be in a couple weeks, have come to the conclusion that for MY first cycle I am going to go with low doses like this:

    Dianabol 20mg/day
    wks 1-5

    Equipose (Boldenon 200) 200mg/wk.
    wks 1-10

    Omnadren 250: 250mg/wk
    wks 1-10

    Anastrozol:ARIMIDEX /Liquidex .25 - .50mg/day
    wks 1-14

    clomiphene citrate: 100mg/day wk. 13
    75mg/day wk. 14
    50mg/day wk. 15
    25mg/day wk. 16

    Then after doing this and seeing my gains i will adjust next one accordingly. What do ya think, MAX?

  21. #21
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    Warrior,
    I think you do understand what I'm saying; just the explanation is drawn out too much. And I do have a weird nat. T production... back to our topic. No I would not hit the sos 250 for 8-10 w in a cycle. In a stagger I would for about 5 weeks, but again not in a straight cycle. I can give you one of my yearly intakes, the cool thing about this site is we don’t know each other and were not competing, so it's easier to tell the grand secret mix that most don’t like to share. It’s amazing what others take and the amount... A few of my buddies are vying for pro-cards... talk about tight lipped with their gear and a little attitude too...

    Below an old recorded cycle; in this cycle the main theory behind it was for me to start growing right away on a clean test but keeping my receptors fresh by dropping... In the middle the lower aromatizing androgens become my meat in the middle, I didn't want to recommend a strong diuretic like Lasix because that takes exp. users, when my body would start to feel the kicking deca , I would come back and hit the cleaner test again tapering down and then start what I call maintenance w the jack of all trades. "this was directed to dee3 originally, warrior I think you know more about diet and AS and AS half life, but check it out, your body won't know what hit it" you can how ever use different androgen in place of the ones I have here, in the same type of dropping and coming on I love a d-bol deca jump start too.

    Hit the sos 500mgs for 2-3 weeks then drop it, grab a t100 (new to me but not new now I always got my doc to help but you’re in luck bro...because now there’s prop/brovel 10ml 100mg per)and eod hit 100mg for two weeks get an over the counter diuretic "animal cut works ok" then drop it(the prop that is, stay with the diuretic, If all you have is eq well "eq is for women" too much sesame in your ass use deca "same shit less oil " you need to read bro, fuck EQ" hit the d200 400mg for 3 weeks the come down to 200mgs a week and drop. drop your complex carbs too only greens hit your proteins 2g per lb of body weight come back to the sos 500mgs for 3 weeks clean diet taper to 250 then hit the deca at 200mgs and hit the HCG and a little nolvodex. Then stop if your you, me would stay with the 200mg a week until my next cycle, you gotta know what you’re doing though bro.

    Sorry for the long wind... your 1-10 enanthate 400mg a-week/ 1-10 prop eod I think you mean... that sounds like growth. With good food there is nothing to do but grow... I personally, if cycled would say

    Week 1&2 prop eod
    On week 2 start the enanthate but clime w2-200mg, w3 200mgs, w4-400mgs, w5 600mgs, w6 400, w7 200, w8-200
    Weeks 8 & 9 prop eod
    If possible uses a weaker androgen (EQ, Deca) to taper further down extending out 4 more weeks.

    I have a very strong reaction to enanthate, so in my staggering dose is 200mg a week (maybe 300 it depends) for 5weeks then I would move to the next androgen...

  22. #22
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    H.pYl0ri ,
    It may be time to get off this thread, your back pack looks good though, I dont think you need the armidex, you could save it for a harder heavier cycle. The d-bol and eq will give a good feeling, but listen I gotta get to work but I'll e-mail you with the rest...
    later bro

  23. #23
    H.pYl0ri is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    116
    Sorry wasn't trying to dip in the cool-aid but was reading and thought I'd post. Can't wait to hear the rest of your thoughts on my cycle.

  24. #24
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266

    omna,

    I'm back brother, "omna" for some reason; the physical mass gained from this is just more than the sus or sos. I think Omna is different by a couple of test... low dose you can stand the water but climb and the armidex will help the bloat "water"... I'll give two scenarios though and you can be the judge... my only lament is that I wont be able to tell you any nasty body ills cause I've never taken omna, and I don’t recommend my partners dosages, but I'll give you my input if it's worth anything to you...I can only give you recorded trial and error from my personal arsenal, and at lease tell you anything and everything that effect my growth, from diet to narcotics
    max

  25. #25
    H.pYl0ri is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    116
    Actually since the year 2000 omnadren is the same as sustanon . I would love to read ALL that you have to say. Any knowledge is GOOD knowledge! So anything that you would be willing to share about your experiences especially things that affected your growth.

    H.p

  26. #26
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Holy shit! I appreciate you givin' some info on top level stacks. Tremendously. I understand you are referring to switching the esters and tapering... although tapering has been said to be a thing of the past because it delays returning to a normal endogenous levels. But that doesn't seem to be this methods concern - but rather to shake up the receptors to keep them clean and responding...

    You are referring to swtiching only Test esters and maybe running a more weaker androgen like Deca while tapering off the Test. Do you believe Test Enanthante or Deconoate esters need to be ran minimally 8-10 weeks? Or as long as their is a new Test ester that wil replace it...

    Do you think your stagering has worked for you simply because you have a more difficult time shutting down to a negative state due to your sinfully high natural Test levels, as in... is this a method that most Pros use?

  27. #27
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    BTW - you do agree Sust250 EOD?

    From what I gather is you are refrring to someting like this:

    Weeks 1-6: Sust250 EOD
    Weeks 1-8: Deca 400mg/wk
    Weeks 9-16: Eq 400mg/wk
    Weeks 6-11: Test Enanthate , 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 200/wk
    Weeks 11-16: Test Cypionate , 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 200/wk
    Weeks 15-18: Test Prop, 100mg EOD

    Clomid/Nolvadex

  28. #28
    Rickson's Avatar
    Rickson is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    5,163
    I think warrior has it pretty accurate. For those of you new to cycling I suggest you continue to read and research.

  29. #29
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    Warrior,
    Here is that cycle I took a couple years back...
    Week sos250 t100 deca hcg nolvadex
    1 500mg
    2 500mg
    3 500mg 10mg/day
    4 100mg/eod 10mg/day
    5 100mg/eod 10mg/day
    6 400mg
    7 400mg
    8 400mg
    9 500mg 200mg 10mg/day
    10 500mg 10mg/day
    12 500mg 10mg/day
    13 250mg 200mg 5000iu
    14 200mg 5000iu
    5000iu
    5000iu
    You see I didn't start staggering yearly until I saw others doing it and then basically started doing it with in my cycle. hope this can be of interest... this same type of inner stagger in a cycle, I've done at 1000mg min of sos, 2000-3000mg min of deca, 200-400mg prop min etd, hcg, tamoxifin(nolv), insulin , b12,lasix, hgb, nubain, a little bit of downers. (Honesty is easier when you have no face) the nubain, and downers weren’t needed I really only took because the pain others had I thought well I’ll just take you know before the pain starts. I wasn’t lifting hard enough at the time to feel my bro’s type of pain… too new
    The ghb did help me sleep how ever… and when I didn’t want to drink a couple of Oz. and I felt like super man needing to get laid…
    As a second grade guru I wrote everything down I would put my cycles in a notebook, then keep a pattern, and swap androgen for different androgens and just record growth sides along with calorie: carb/fat/protein.
    Now, I don’t even write my mom, lol
    I can tell you how much shit and what I put in my body by bringing out the bottles for a year, and I'm not some pro body build only trying to get in a popular mag. as a model.
    I'm not huge either, like I say just trying to come back and stay at 230 @6% BF and look good

  30. #30
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    that all got fucked up,... sorry

  31. #31
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266

    that all got fucked up

    Warrior,
    Here is that cycle I took a couple years back...
    Week//////sos250/////t100////deca /////nolvadex //hcg
    1//////////500mg
    2//////////500mg
    3//////////500mg////////////////////////10mg/day
    4///////// ///////////100mg/eod////////10mg/day
    5///////// ///////////100mg/eod////////10mg/day
    6////////////////////////////////400mg
    7////////////////////////////////400mg
    8////////////////////////////////400mg
    9//////////500mg //////////////200mg//10mg/day
    10/////////500mg////////////////////////10mg/day
    12/////////500mg////////////////////////10mg/day
    13/////////250mg///////////// /200mg////////////////5000iu
    14//////////////////////////////200mg////////////////5000iu
    15/////////////////////////////////////////////////////5000iu
    16/////////////////////////////////////////////////////5000iu
    You see I didn't start staggering yearly until I saw others doing it and then basically started doing it with in my cycle. hope this can be of interest... this same type of inner stagger in a cycle, I've done at 1000mg min of sos, 2000-3000mg min of deca, 200-400mg prop min etd, hcg, tamoxifin(nolv), insulin , b12,lasix, hgb, nubain, a little bit of downers. (Honesty is easier when you have no face) the nubain, and downers weren’t needed I really only took because the pain others had I thought well I’ll just take you know before the pain starts. I wasn’t lifting hard enough at the time to feel my bro’s type of pain… too new
    The ghb did help me sleep how ever… and when I didn’t want to drink a couple of Oz. and I felt like super man needing to get laid…
    As a second grade guru I wrote everything down I would put my cycles in a notebook, then keep a pattern, and swap androgen for different androgens and just record growth sides along with calorie: carb/fat/<a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a></a>.
    Now, I don’t even write my mom, lol
    I can tell you how much shit and what I put in my body by bringing out the bottles for a year, and I'm not some pro body build only trying to get in a popular mag. as a model.
    I'm not huge either, like I say just trying to stay at 230 @6% BF

  32. #32
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Thats an interesting stack and goes against some conventional theories on running some longer esters - especially Deca for many more weeks to allow a sufficient build up. How come you cut the longer esters short, like Deca and the Test Deconoate? And you only run an average of 500mg total... seems you would get much better results and bang for your buck off the cycle I in my last post... no? Or are you sayin' that you are not as ambiguos as other might be with androgens...

  33. #33
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    warrior
    Sorry for not commenting on your example:
    Weeks 1-6: Sust250 EOD
    Weeks 1-8: Deca 400mg/wk
    Weeks 9-16: Eq 400mg/wk
    Weeks 6-11: Test Enanthate , 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 200/wk
    Weeks 11-16: Test Cypionate , 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 200/wk
    Weeks 15-18: Test Prop, 100mg EOD

    Response: your stack here is good/ I would deviate and use d-bol liquid form instead of the cyp just to get away from the enanthate brother.

    I'm usually misunderstood because of explanation... cycle theory is a class like in school

    Stacking androgens is the Bull on the prairie: coupling, binding and combining: simply put when you stack your body will grow, but derive why and which one worked best (becomes a needle in a hay stack)

    The cycle I put from my log is a pattern, theory circles around receptor mapping and saturating. Then moving on... As I said above that same cycle I did using 1000mg of sos preloads, 2000mg deca, and 200mg of propionate .

    What you need to keep mind is life cycle to saturation... jargon... you know that sos is going to be there at least 20 days from the last time hit and for 20 days it will continue to work... that simple...
    stacking theory relies on cilmbing the dose to keep your receptors reciveing that one amount needed to grow...

    Ok... but which test is going to aromatize faster once your receptors are trashed from that androgen, when you have saturated a receptor site\, it will just wave and the particular AR molecule and say good bye. Two many weeks of high test and you will start to waste it because your body can’t ever take it.
    This does not just pertain to test, but to all androgens.

    So cycling is done more efficiently when androgens are changed right before saturation...
    Hence taking a dose and dropping before you have time to shut down, If you read my statement after my ex cycle the same pattern can be done with a mega dose and still keep your receptors fresh when you hit them towards the end of the stagger

    Stagger theory
    Simply stated once you have saturated a receptor site the site or androgen must be changed
    This is how the pros do it...
    Of course with exception of only mega dosing and pairing a receptor site with an androgen
    stacking is a novice form but not done by only novices, a more experiences athlete will stack two-three androgens as a portion of a stagger meaning week 1-3 "money bag" takes enanth and test suspension/ week 3-6 d-bol, deca, sten/ week 6-10 anadrol , winny, test suspension.
    I can go on but I hope you get the point at last... the ester are not taken into consideration, the saturation of all your receptor site are.

    The confusion began not with cycle theory but when I was suggesting to dee3 that he take sus according to his goals which were never really stated, I merely want to give him a note from experience...

    Also, I don’t mega dose anymore my goal have changed. I'm a mechanical engineer with now aspirations of fitness modeling. I figured to become a pro there is too much competition, and I need too much orange juice, and growth hamburgers. I’ll keep the friends I have and just try to look as lean with as much lean mass as possible.
    Don’t let me denture you thought, stagger is the way to go. You don’t have to take mega doses and you're bodies a lot more healthy than others. You do have to always have your stash though but in staggering dosages can get considerably lowered because you are going to be one two punching the whole year. If your in completion the stagger must work around your event meaning you got to now plan up until the big day, your faster acting androgens become very important your physic with show how much thought you put into your dialed “smack and diet.

  34. #34
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Okay, I see what you are saying about swiching up on the different gear for stagered cycles. And in my example switching the Cyp to a Dbol or Tren to stager the test more.

    But in your above cycle I just don't think the time on for each is long enough to get the most out of them. Maybe with the front load to saturate the first week... but I'm not sure I see how you move from Sus250 to T100 which would be 5 weeks on Test, but then you run Deca for only 4 weeks... then right before it's out of your system you ran it at a minimal dose for 2 more. This seems like a real shot gun approach - a good pattern with the right gear, just not at the right doseages or duration. This cycle must have caused some real drops in mood and performance in conjunction with some great weeks - a mental AND physiological bipolar I also believe this is where the "rage" comes from - a sudden unexpected change in androgens can be harder to control.
    Last edited by Warrior; 12-14-2002 at 05:01 PM.

  35. #35
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266
    Experiment with the androgens, your missing the pattern. Look at it again at all times you will me taking relatively an average dose of 450-500mgs of all the androgens the whole time, but changing the AS type. There is no drop and AR's stay working mad. Multiply the dose by two then three, this is a tried and tested pattern by still in a cycle.
    Rage is the novice, a weak mind. Ever notice a punk that rages, his blood pressure so high when he gets angry he physically gets a pump, and begins to unconsciously associate that pump when become more aggressive. weak minds keep the rage alive
    I really can't lay it out any more that all the posts above. good chatting, keep growing adios to this thread...

  36. #36
    Warrior's Avatar
    Warrior is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    6'0"/248lbs
    Posts
    6,982
    Roger that Maximus - Interesting idea, and yes I did notice the 400-500 trend... I may play a little with this starting at about 500 the first time. Thanks for your time brah... good to see ya here and keep pushin for your goal. Luego...

  37. #37
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,266

    one last...

    One last thing before I go... Warrior
    I didn’t respond too much to your direct questions... you post:

    "Holy shit! I appreciate you givin' some info on top level stacks. Tremendously. I understand you are referring to switching the esters and tapering... although tapering has been said to be a thing of the past because it delays returning to a normal endogenous levels. But that doesn't seem to be this methods concern - but rather to shake up the receptors to keep them clean and responding...

    You are referring to swtiching only Test esters and maybe running a more weaker androgen like Deca while tapering off the Test. Do you believe Test Enanthante or Deconoate esters need to be ran minimally 8-10 weeks? Or as long as their is a new Test ester that wil replace it...

    Do you think your stagering has worked for you simply because you have a more difficult time shutting down to a negative state due to your sinfully high natural Test levels, as in... is this a method that most Pros use?

    1. On the esters from my experience taken at 1000mg-2000mg must be run a shorter time. 3 weeks max. then drop and continue with a mega dose of a different androgen. Lower doses and be run a lot longer 2-3 times longer, and you can move to different receptor hemisphere, pin point lagging areas.
    2. When staggering a high androgenic lesser anabolic yes you do want to use a, "we call it meat or jack of all trades others refer to it as deca". Just a more anabolic lesser androgenic AS" (deca, EQ) in between before you get back to a heavy androgenic "anadrol , sten, and reg. test cyp enanth)
    3. My results from staggering may be controversial, I do believe for me it's easier to calculate my body’s growth once I shut down nat. production, meaning mega doses, not ethical and can be mind fucking but you see exactly what the hormones are doing to you.
    But in all honesty I do believe I have seen my greatest gains of lean muscle by staggering. Not due to my test levels but pin pointing my larger receptors and pin pointing for localization of smaller muscle groups evening my physic, over a large scale of time.

    One note: look into what diseases call for AS prescription, Lupus, Addison’s, HIV. This will start to let you know that you can take certain AS year around and still be healthy. Don’t forget AS is a supplement. There are doctor prescribed doses for individuals that are already healthy that are taken year around...
    Good luck, adios

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •