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  1. #1
    all_around_athlete is offline New Member
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    Cyclist/Triathlete, Speed & Mass

    Here's the story:

    I have been lifting weights for about ten years. Applied some Tren in a DMSO solution when I was WAY younger than I should have been. Learned a lot about different things from friends that were into body building. And as such I don't carry with me most of the myths that most endurance athletes hold regarding AAS.

    The last couple of years I have been moving toward endurance sports. I just started cycling, I did my first Half Ironman this year, I have done 8 or so other tri's, and 5 marathons. I am continuing to progress on each of these fronts, but I am hitting a place where I either lose weight (I am 170lb 5'8" now, I was down to 155lb right before my marathon), and strength and get faster, or I increase my lean mass and strength, and... get slower.

    I know of people that are much faster than I, that are also bigger and stronger. I am not looking to look like my bodybuilder friends. I would like approach something closer to David Goggin's athletic abilities. I want to be wicked strong, and still be able to run a 17 minute 5k. I don't have the medical resources to do EPO and have liver enzymes checked on a regular basis.... Are there any recommendations on something that will (1) allow me to improve my performance, and (2) allow me to achieve the appearance I am looking for?

    Any refs would be greatly appreciated. The cycling/marathoning/triathlete communities would rather ignore the existence of AAS (or play some moral high ground), and most of the educational lit I find on steroids is geared toward the bodybuilding community. Thanks for the help.

    Ahhhh - I should probably include something regarding my workout routine eh?

    I usually run about 30 miles a week. There is one hard track workout, one long run (12-22 miles depending on the time of season) and a number of short runs throughout the week. I try to cycle once or twice a week, and average 60-120 miles a week. Strength training has left the conventional gym and moved it's way to a Crossfit gym where I workout three days a week. I usually get one day in with my boxing trainer each week.

  2. #2
    ninesecz's Avatar
    ninesecz is offline AR's Mass Monster
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    My brother is doing the same thing you are got too old to keep being competative with motocross so is now doing hallf ironmans. Actually just got back from vlounteering in Lake George for the Ironman World Champion Qualifier. He has his 1/2 Ironman times down to around 4hr 41minutes. He needs a little work on his swimming but his bik and run are always in the top 10 out of 2000+ people Just won his age groupl last saturday! I put him on an 8 week cycle of Anavar . did not want to shoot needles right now but wanted to get a little harder and stronger. seemed to work great. took almost 8minutes off of his total time from 10 weeks ago. most of the triathlon trai nng is in the diet though. most of those big time athletes in endurance do blood doping and epogen

  3. #3
    t-gunz's Avatar
    t-gunz is offline MONITOR~ ~ RIP ~
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    personally you don't need to take anything. your training. if your doing that all the time can cause you to wear out.

    you are doing more running than cycling.

    i find that if i do to much of one that i will slow down on the other.

    you need to mix rides up through the week.

    i did hill repeats only 4-5 mins to get up a hill. sitting down

    start in 9th gear and work my way down to first. so 9 hill repeats and drop a gear each time i complete the hill.
    i find that doing that i built incredible strength.

    and on other riding days incorporate sprinting in it.

    we were riding 100km on a sat morning ride. so a hill for 15 mins then a flat combined with 3 hills then ride for another 20-30kms and do a sprint for 5-10km depending on how we felt.

    mix things up a bit more and you will increase strength and endurance.

    hope this helps a bit

  4. #4
    Lemonada8's Avatar
    Lemonada8 is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    from what you are saying, you should look into test prop and winny... those are both short esters (the test has to be shot ED, and winny taken ED also) but they will help prevent bloating (if you diet is in check) and those compounds will help harden ur muscles, and gear in general will help ur eurithrocyte (RBC's) count... gear will act on how you train... if you run alot ur ST fibers will be more effected, if you lift all the time ur FT fibers will be affected more...

  5. #5
    Dont wanna be old's Avatar
    Dont wanna be old is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Anyone remember Ben Johnson from Canada ? He was gold medalist using Winstrol I believe . Any muscle sparing compounds will work to your advantage . To AR

  6. #6
    all_around_athlete is offline New Member
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    I'll do some more research on Anavar , Test, Winny and Winstrol . Thank you all.

  7. #7
    all_around_athlete is offline New Member
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    Opp - Just got an email from a buddy.

    Turns out pro triathlete Nathan Holland received a two year ban for Dinabol. And Ben Johnson was either on Furazabol (?) or Stanozolol .

    Looks like triathletes use all the same stuff every other athlete does... We have hit all the big names Winstrol (opps listed that twice in my last post), Test (eth I suppose?), Anavar , and Dinabol.

    Noting this - do I look more at what triathletes are using or at what is best to use first (something like test eth)?

  8. #8
    Dont wanna be old's Avatar
    Dont wanna be old is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    I don't know triathletes , but watching MMA . I see huge bodybuilder type fighters gasping for breath before less muscular opponents . ( Nick Diaz , not muscular , unquestionable endurance ) . I think there is a fine line between muscle development and muscle endurance . ( Evander Holyfield looks muscular and has endurance ).
    I think there has to be happy medium , marathon runners look very skinny , Cyclist and speed skaters have some big lower bodies .

    Good luck , let us know of any trial and errors you encounter .

  9. #9
    ninesecz's Avatar
    ninesecz is offline AR's Mass Monster
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    If you read my post above you would have the answer,,, Doing a full blown cycle of test is going to no doubt add some water weight and you will need an AI to combat that. By running something like Anavar only. you might get what you are looking for. As you will will read in my post above, my brother made some serious time improvements and is now concentrating on running the full Ironman in Lake Placid next July and hopefully qualify for the World Cahampionships in Hawaii

  10. #10
    Vitruvian-Man is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by all_around_athlete View Post
    Are there any recommendations on something that will (1) allow me to improve my performance, and (2) allow me to achieve the appearance I am looking for?
    I would say do a simple cycle:

    a.)
    Test-E (weeks 1 - 14) @ 400mg / week
    Anavar (weeks 1 - 6) @ 60 - 80mg / day
    EQ (weeks 1 - 14) @ 600mg / week

    b.)
    Test-E (weeks 1 - 14) @ 400mg / week
    Deca (weeks 1 - 12) @ 300 - 400mg / week
    Winstrol (weeks 11 - 16) @ 50mg / day

    Running cycle # A will be really nice. A lot of my friends are athletes, and they love EQ because it raises their red blood cell count, improves endurance, and improves vascularity & hunger!

    Running cycle # B will be really nice on your joints. You could even run the deca @ just around 250mg EW if you wanted it only for therapeutic use (it'll lubricate your joints). And then backloading the cycle with winny really hardens up their muscles, and helps amount solidify gains.

    Both are really good cycles imo. Most of my friends that train professionally use cycle #B... it produces excellent results. And imo it should be really helpful for a triathlon runner.. especially because one of winstrol's side affects is dry-joints.. but that will be masked by the deca.

  11. #11
    Tarheel is offline Associate Member
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    Dude those bodybuilding doses, not endurance athlete doses...1.5 grams of gear /week for a triathlete???

  12. #12
    ninesecz's Avatar
    ninesecz is offline AR's Mass Monster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man View Post
    I would say do a simple cycle:

    a.)
    Test-E (weeks 1 - 14) @ 400mg / week
    Anavar (weeks 1 - 6) @ 60 - 80mg / day
    EQ (weeks 1 - 14) @ 600mg / week

    b.)
    Test-E (weeks 1 - 14) @ 400mg / week
    Deca (weeks 1 - 12) @ 300 - 400mg / week
    Winstrol (weeks 11 - 16) @ 50mg / day

    Running cycle # A will be really nice. A lot of my friends are athletes, and they love EQ because it raises their red blood cell count, improves endurance, and improves vascularity & hunger!

    Running cycle # B will be really nice on your joints. You could even run the deca @ just around 250mg EW if you wanted it only for therapeutic use (it'll lubricate your joints). And then backloading the cycle with winny really hardens up their muscles, and helps amount solidify gains.

    Both are really good cycles imo. Most of my friends that train professionally use cycle #B... it produces excellent results. And imo it should be really helpful for a triathlon runner.. especially because one of winstrol's side affects is dry-joints.. but that will be masked by the deca.
    You need to STOP giving out advice if you are unsure if the answer is correct.

    1st off it is his first cycle why would you think it is a good idea for him to stack compounds?

    2nd: how is that a simple cycle? You have him running full blown cycles worth of Test and for way too long to boot

    3rd: Winstrol is abut the worst compound an endurance athlete can use! It can severly hurt the joints and really cause a lot of joint pain and discomfort!

    4th: EQ is strictly a muscle builder and would not help at all with endurance and 600mg a week is absolutely rediculous to suggest to a 1st timer!

    5th: STOP and read for a while before handing out advice. You are obviously just guessing and trying to be helpful but giving advice when you are not 100% sure is frowned upon on this board

    This guy needs at best a simple 1 compound cycle. As i havealready told him 6-8 weeks of Anavar alone will probably do for him exactly what he wants. I know my brother is an endurance athlete and the last thing he wants to do is up his appetite and gain unwanted weight. Weight=Agility, speed, balance! Too much muscle mass especially in the water makes it almost impossible to swim fast and for long periods of time. Muscle does not float! Makes you want to sink to the bottom

  13. #13
    all_around_athlete is offline New Member
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    ninesecz-

    Thanks for the advise. I did read your post - and it looks to be tailored to my exactly to my needs (looking at full IM's now for next year). I didn't mean to be disrespectful in asking what to look at in my first cycle, I was hoping to find some consensus. The cycle of Anavar sounds great. But I'd be curious to see if anyone else has any ideas....

    Anyone else have experience with triathletes on Anavar or anything else?

  14. #14
    starboots's Avatar
    starboots is offline New Member
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    Im curious to hear some more answers as well. Looking to run in my 2nd marathon early next year.

  15. #15
    all_around_athlete is offline New Member
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    I have found my supplier... He is suggesting some Equipoise . He thinks that it will do a better job of increasing my RBC count than anything, while giving me increased strength without much increase in size. Does this sound like a good route to you all? Better than Anavar ? Also, I would like to be able to test clean in 16 months or so. Is this possible with Equipoise? I know it is testable nearly as long as Deca ....

    Thanks for the help.

  16. #16
    lotsoftime's Avatar
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    Bit off topic but do you use WKO+ for your training? I'm running 50mg var (on day 3) and tracking my progress... For me I'm watching my w/kg numbers

  17. #17
    amcon's Avatar
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    with a very strong time trialist and cycling back ground ... i have used test, anadrol , sust...

    in doing so i kept my weight with in 12 lbs on the cycles (anadrol i killed my self to eat cals and gained like 18 lbs) 202 was pre steroid usage

    i use periodization traing with a power tap - to get fast / strong this is a must.
    steroids helped me by maybe (preseved effort) 3 - 5% more.
    i used a oxygen rebreather to get allitude in my blood.

    WHAT I DIDNT DO IS CHANGE MY DIET! I WAS KILLING MY SELF WORRIED ABOUT RECOVERY ALL THE TIME AND ATE VERY LITTLE PROTINE - MY DIET WAS 70 % CARBS

    ... note: with the steroids and altitude rebreather i couldnt hurt my self. let me repeat that i couldnt hurt my self (with the periodization training at peak, this was a goal race for me) i just couldnt generate any latic acid!!! it was amazing, the power numbers were something like 397 watts of power, for 40 plus min, heart rate was 97% avg for the time, avg hr was 193, the only sad part was i finished and thought i could have gone harder... the average speed was 29.8 mph on a rolling hill coarse with a cross wind - typical for the place of the race

    hope that helps :

    if i would do it over again diet would be ther first thing i would change - fyi

  18. #18
    lotsoftime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amcon View Post
    if i would do it over again diet would be ther first thing i would change - fyi
    Diet to what? Examples?

  19. #19
    all_around_athlete is offline New Member
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    Good post Amcon. Thank you.

    As per my old coach's recommendations I generally eat about 30, 30, 40. I have eat an avocado a day to get in most of the fats (though nuts help too). I have 40g of pro as soon as I wake up, and again right before bed. Lunch is usually a salad with a couple cans of tuna or some cod fillets with dinner consisting of some rice, chicken and either broccoli or asparagus.... Three yogurts and a couple of nasty tasting bars (Clif, Power, or Clif Kids (brownie is yummy!)) are thown in somewhere throughout the day...

    Does this sounds 'bout right to you? Sounds like gear helped you fairly little.... I just started a cycle of test prop and I have yet to feel much of a difference.

    I have yet to get a Cyclops. I'll have to think about that one.

  20. #20
    big_k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by all_around_athlete View Post
    Good post Amcon. Thank you.

    As per my old coach's recommendations I generally eat about 30, 30, 40. I have eat an avocado a day to get in most of the fats (though nuts help too). I have 40g of pro as soon as I wake up, and again right before bed. Lunch is usually a salad with a couple cans of tuna or some cod fillets with dinner consisting of some rice, chicken and either broccoli or asparagus.... Three yogurts and a couple of nasty tasting bars (Clif, Power, or Clif Kids (brownie is yummy!)) are thown in somewhere throughout the day...

    Does this sounds 'bout right to you? Sounds like gear helped you fairly little.... I just started a cycle of test prop and I have yet to feel much of a difference.

    I have yet to get a Cyclops. I'll have to think about that one.
    My Roommate has done several Ironman's and Marathons, and if you want diet advice, post up your whole diet. He eats tons, and tons, and tons and still loses weight during training season. It sounds like you're not eating enough. I rowed competitively (power/endurance sport) and we were eating 6,000-10,000 calories a day.

    Sounds like you're having about 3 meals + snacks, that is WAY not enough for a triathlete. If you are trying to gain endurance you need to bump up your calories before you start messing with anabolics. And listen up to some of these guys they offered some solid advice with regards to AAS.

  21. #21
    TITANIUM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amcon View Post
    with a very strong time trialist and cycling back ground ... i have used test, anadrol , sust...

    in doing so i kept my weight with in 12 lbs on the cycles (anadrol i killed my self to eat cals and gained like 18 lbs) 202 was pre steroid usage

    i use periodization traing with a power tap - to get fast / strong this is a must.
    steroids helped me by maybe (preseved effort) 3 - 5% more.
    i used a oxygen rebreather to get allitude in my blood.

    WHAT I DIDNT DO IS CHANGE MY DIET! I WAS KILLING MY SELF WORRIED ABOUT RECOVERY ALL THE TIME AND ATE VERY LITTLE PROTINE - MY DIET WAS 70 % CARBS

    ... note: with the steroids and altitude rebreather i couldnt hurt my self. let me repeat that i couldnt hurt my self (with the periodization training at peak, this was a goal race for me) i just couldnt generate any latic acid!!! it was amazing, the power numbers were something like 397 watts of power, for 40 plus min, heart rate was 97% avg for the time, avg hr was 193, the only sad part was i finished and thought i could have gone harder... the average speed was 29.8 mph on a rolling hill coarse with a cross wind - typical for the place of the race

    hope that helps :

    if i would do it over again diet would be ther first thing i would change - fyi


    I used to race professionally, and that is god dam fast bro!!

    I'm impressed.

    Best

    T

  22. #22
    TITANIUM's Avatar
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    To the OP:

    VAR.....

    Best

    T

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