01-04-2003, 01:26 PM #1Senior Member
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- May 2002
TO ALL NEWBIE AS users!! & problem gainers!!-read...I see alot of ? about dose...but
Real quick and I hope my dyslexic ass can convey this rule of thumb to my experience type of jargon…This is long but I know if your serious you will keep going... my apologize for shitty grammar and spelling... may need to edit again...
I sent this post before but there are so many questions about the intake of AAS (Anabolic Androgenic Steroids ) that I believe the newbie’s are forgetting about the diet. You guy’s, this is my personal technique for cleaning up my diet, this is more about growing while on AAS than cutting up… Although, that’s not to say you can’t loose some bf just cleaning up your diet, most likely that’s exactly what will happen… Training your self to eat right is just like training yourself to lift properly and with adequate weight I might add… For other Models, bber’s and Pro’s in both fields… they may have a different approach… As a sometime model and fitness enthusiast this is mine… and I hope you can benefit from this…
I'll give you my favorite zig zag later (PM me) but for now a high production of lean muscle mass, well... takes the hours of the day into consideration….
Keep me in the same category with your self because weather your just starting or five years on AAS when you are at my experience you'll still feel like a dummy because you should have figured it out faster…
Getting back into a diet plan from a, well... grand mmmm... doughnuts, or mmmm... burgers & fries...I love to eat... and still to this day but when I diet I have to get my second personality to come out like a drill sergeant.
I start with a one two-punch effect by taking away the high fats and the amount of refined sugars I take in. For me the first thing I do is to cut out the refined sugars (Ex. cake, candy bars, anything that is not a natural simple sugar like fruit), and then a week or two we say goodbye to the foods high in saturated fats (Ex. fried foods, some baked goods, preservative type foods like potato chips). Then I start a "no" process food consumption and load on complex carbs from rice and potatoes (watch out for roots... (Ex potatoes, carrots, and beats) if you don’t time a root (starchy complex carb) in the day and eat them at night, you could go to sleep and add a 1lb of water and fat just dreaming... And after about 6mo of dreaming you'll wake up to a nightmare of some fat fuck in your bed, cause it's, you.
OK... ok... I'm a tangent, ADD, pincushion…
The most important issue while trying to repair protein fibers is to intake the amount you break down... every bodies different... I use an array of predigested pro-teins (nitro-tech/ABB drinks, optimum, celltech, empower for life) when you don't have money I can tell you the cheapest shit I've used (just PM me), but for prot-ein intake? I am very stern when I say never go below 1g per lb of body weight. I never DROP LOWER than 1.5g per lb if possible... But there are those days where you get mugged by homeless people and they steal your food... little do they know their putting your muscles in jeopardy...
OK quick growing schedule ((NEVER GO BELOW)) these amounts. There is a range because some may have a difference in body mass but also training style... These amounts are IMHO what you should never get below in grams per lb of body weight.... This is also directed towards men not women--- (Pro-tein=1- 2grams per/lb---Carbs (simple & complex= all fibrous, starches and sugars) .5-1.5grams per lb..... Fat never go over =. 5g per lb unless you’re dropping carbs in place of FAT and hopefully they are Mono & Poly unsaturated fats (there are good fats that your body loves to use as fuel and more efficient than some carbs...
Ok a little confusing...but I can explain
Carbs-when you’re on AS you should be eating if sugar -only simple sugar (fruits) if starch-try non-process if possible (rice, grains,) non-process carbs take time to digest in the body but give a consistent supply of energy, upon break down into glucose and don’t create insulin spikes. Basically you have a natural nutrient being converted into stable energy. Your friendly complex carbs that offer few calories but should be devoured are fibrous complex carbs (veggies.... green leafy things)... This will add in digestion and help keep your digestive track clean and lean... (Definitely takes less water to digest veggies because of the high water content to begin with.... so you’re not so bloated, your intestines do not need to pull extra fluid after eating such a carb for digestion)
"What's Up with tha Carbo's"
Nothing wrong with good process carbs (some pasta's, some bread's)...
Just you should realize it takes longer to digest "good carbs" which makes the body utilize body fat into triglycerides then fuel/energy to aid in metabolizing the natural carbo ingested and the metabolization of proteins... These carbs can be broken down into blood sugar and or become glycogen stores or used as a more direct energy source for ATP (or fuel for muscle movement)...
Refined carbs (baked goods, muffins, bagels) or the carbs that have the most process typically have more additives and sugars. It takes less time to digest the refined sugars in each which gets used right away but the complex carb and the additives like hydrogenized fats in those guys are excess and if not used will typically become storage (I say 90% of the time for the typical guy becomes adipose tissue)... A hard gainer might want to ingest a process carb because of his/her genetically fast metabolic rate... But realize the more process the carb is the more frequent roller-coaster ride in energy your body will go through. "Insulin spikes" good after workout because the body is in need of an immediate fuel source but bad through out the day... Insulin spikes through out the day can cause your body to hoard fat. Insulin spikes also cause the body to have a fluctuation in blood sugar and to a BBer low blood sugar means you’re a prime candidate for a catabolic episode, (the break down of muscle mass to be used as fuel) or to fall into a starvation mode... (Where your body will see the erratic intake of nutrients and preserve precious fat stores)
A BBer that plans on a high amount of non-process carbs or good minimally process carbs (pasta) will supply his or her body with ample energy to function and grow.
Pro-tein- (whey, soy, or casinate's-well first start by eating real food then add the predigested amino-acids later "prot-ein" if beef keep it lean cut (no fat) chicken (baked, grilled, boiled), fish (anything you can stand just watch out for blue cat, I swear there’s more fat than muscle in that boy)
Fats- (no saturated) the only thing you should shove down your gutter is mono and poly unsaturated fats. A good source is balance canola oil, a few teaspoons in your rice or pasta, ya know...
Quick school...saturated fats are from your animal products the fat off meat and dairy, plan and simple the fat your made up of. WATCH OUT FOR hydrogenized fats... these are in bought baked goods basically they taste real good but you will take a few days to burn…. (Monounsaturated & Polyunsaturated-ex...omega3, flax seed, natural seed oil)
When cycling there is a common rule of thumb for the average non Pro bb’er at 4000 cals and higher and you have to grow...fat or muscle... Well... that’s up to your dosing, that’s right think of eating just like your dosing, nailing, popping etc. Meaning on average if you ingest 6-8 small meals every 2hrs instead 3 or four great big meals you will speed your metabolic rate through digestion alone. So the more frequent and small you dose the better...
I train a body part every four days and hard days are still and have always been leg day and back or chest...
Light days are arm days, stomach & calves and days off day.
The reason this becomes important is the energy you need to train during those heavy or hard days is in large a high amount... Heavy harder days should require your intake of higher calories which will come from carbohydrates... these energy packed foods will sustain you though out the day and during training... If you’re looking to keep you mass and add more start looking at carbs as you’re savor.... Pro-tein is needed to replace and repair the pro-tein already in your body (muscle). If you are looking to make gains, merely eating high pro-tein isn’t going to work.
: Heavy days-calories 3500-6000 & up
Light days – calories 2500-4500
Ok… simplify even more… for growing not cutting keep it around 3500-4000 calories on average.
Calories per gram of Prot-ein, Carbohydrate, Fats: 1gram carbohydrate = 3.75 calories /1 gram prot-ein = 4 calories/ 1 gram fat = 9 calories /1 gram alcohol = 7 calories
Now that should help you calculate your grams per day but keep on reading, I know my long winded ass can fucking spew but...
Now, (time of day) is important… it’s not easy getting 5000 calories in your body a day. So on the heavy days start early... if you do cardio in the morning make sure on a growing cycle this early consumption is after the cardio. In the morning get some whey predigested pro-tein. So it gets into your body quick then try and start a schedule that is consistent to eating every two-three hours, make sure you have a cut off point of natural food consumption in the evening as your metabolism slows down...the last thing is make sure and intake a slower metabolized prot-ein before bed... so use a casinate (egg prot-ein is what I use mainly)
"Pro-teins when where"
You want fast metabolizing prot-ein before, during and after work out…(whey pro-tein no added carbs, utilize a simple sugar like an apple or banana after workout) You should have been ingesting carbs through out the day up until about 1hr to 30min before work out... This should give you the glycogen build that you need to work hard...The fast metabolizing pro-tein 1hr before work out can be called a support... the pro-tein ingested during workout can be called an insurance.... (A liquid amino mixed with water for me)... If you're training hard you want to have the pro-teins available for repair immediately.... The pro-tein and simple sugar ingested after work out, is the beginning of recovery...
"Casinate the last intake" you want your body to recover but not turn fast metabolizing prot-ein into fat storage so use a slow metabolizing pro-tein from milk or eggs to feed you through the night
For me personally…. Simply (All predigested pro-tein drinks are solely <a pro-tein and dextrose or protein virtually carb free)
-Prot-ein in morning
-Rest of day you should have balance of carb (simple & complex), pro-tein (soy & whey) and fat (mono and poly unsaturated)
-Fast metabolizing pro-tein before, during and after work out at least 1hr to 2hrs is good before workout/ during make sure you at least consume an 1/8 of your body weight in grams of pro-tein if not a 1/4, after workout (a dextrose/ prot-ein mix -- no matter how many time you train a day)
Slow metabolizing prot-ein at night (casinate- egg whites, egg prot-ein)
Try to keep well hydrated with your good nutritional consumption. (Body building foods)
WATER BABY!!!! GOTTA DRINK YOUR WATER!!!!!!
Try 16oz morning, 16oz mid-morn, 16 afternoon, 16oz mid afternoon, 32oz 30min prior workout, 16oz trough out training, and 16oz post training…
Good luck cause with out water it doesn't matter how good your diet is.... you may feel ok but you will not truly tap into your Chi and build mature muscle groups with out it... My first mistake I made when starting out... not enough water...2nd not enough pro-tein and at the wrong time... 3rd improper build of glycogen before training....
For you morning gym rats make sure you down that protein 1hr before and then have a protein source during and immediately after.... because you surly have not built a smigit of glycogen which begets 1 of your ATP's sources.... which in turn moves those muscles
Water post by me
***Added 7/19/03*** What I don’t talk enough about up top is the importance of eating complex carbs... I talk plenty about starch but hardly any about fiber... You need adequate fiber each day to keep digestion running smoothly if you know what I mean and not to mention the amount of vitamins and minerals you can get from fibrous carbs like anything with a green leafy look, ya know salads with lettuce and other good vegetables that are high in fiber... These are eaten for the high nutritional value...
MMAX STATEMENT: THIS IS NOT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION OF DEITING DRUGS SUCH AS T3, LASIX and CLENBUTEROL . ON T3 I CAN BET I’LL SEE YOU AT A DONUT SHOP…LOL (seriously… you will notice an unbelievable amount of hunger and you will be able to eat an enormous amount of calories when taking T3 correctly, but once consumption is over your appetite will not subside and its not wise to train your self to eat poorly with out the discipline to eat correctly and lean up) T3 really must be taken in conjunction with Clenbuterol…
IF YOU CAN"T EAT HEALTHY…. IF YOU CAN'T PLAN FOR THE DAY FOR WHATEVER reason EAT SOMETHING, DO NOT NOT EAT, EVEN IF ITS BAD AND SATURATED WITH FAT DON’T STARVE YOUR BODY. AND ALWAYS GET YOUR PROTEIN IN. T3 IS NOT FOR NOVICE DIETER’S. YOU NEED TO GET STRICT AT SOME POINT IF YOU’RE GOING TO MAKE THE GAINS YOU WANT.
I’ll send you my favorite zig zag diet that gets me into shrink-wrap (PM me); it’s an old Bill Phillips Plan. Works well for me. I’m border line old school and I still have tapes of Mike Mentzer, Bill Phillips, and Dan Duchaine… the one and only’s
Last edited by mmaximus25; 07-20-2003 at 08:22 PM.
01-04-2003, 01:43 PM #2Senior Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
To Warrior "a Vet not a newbie"
This is my basic diet not from my recorded data script, I deviate with my diet according to my growth not androgens, I'm still getting my personal info down cause I've made changes according to my bodies reaction to high androgenic AS and certain nutrients... sorry for the delay bro...
01-11-2003, 02:28 AM #3
Good post mmaximus!
I got a question concerning water retention... Which carb sources (GI rating or foods) do you think leads to the most water storage from AS? Or do you think it is more of a time of day issue...
01-11-2003, 02:54 AM #4Senior Member
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- May 2002
I haven't done any research as far as tested data, but from my personal logging, High androgenic with heavy starches and processed foods make for high water retention. Ex-potatoes and bread.... I stick mainly to rice and grains for a complex carb and high fiber, but due to the low calorie count of simple carbs I eat a shit load. Fiber helps eleviate some of that water also. I like the water low so I can gage my muscle to fat ratio better... although if dehydrated your fooling your self because the fat cells are just shrunk not metabolized... I guess for me the goal is to stay well hydrated yet keep large amounts of water out of my intestine and larger muscle groups.
01-11-2003, 04:49 AM #5
great post mmaximus!!
01-14-2003, 08:09 PM #6Senior Member
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- May 2002
I guess some like the long winded version. there's a shorter version floating around, thx for the PM's though, I have all sorts of diets ranging from extreme diet downs for more experienced discipline people, maintenance... and gram specific to body weight-gainer diets...
I think most of the people on here are well aware of the importance of diet, so this was just to help the younger guys, not specific to women though... They need a different ratio and specific carb type for good results due to slower metabolism
01-14-2003, 08:30 PM #7
I'll just add to the great post from the training side of the house, TRAINING is muy importante as well. You can't feasibly get the body of a 220lb bodybuilder and continue training with the intensity of a 190lb BB. Finding new theories, researching advanced principles and finding out what gets you on your supercompensation curve to not only keep gains - but keep them coming off cycle.
BTW - the Japanese have a word for it: Kaizen. "Constant and never ending improvement." Strangely enough there is no word like it in English.
01-14-2003, 08:55 PM #8
01-14-2003, 09:03 PM #9
01-14-2003, 09:46 PM #10
good post bro .How do you make sure you take enough poly and mono fats >what are the favorites ?
I hear that canola oil is the majic trick for mr natural(ya right) Skip la cour. he uses 6 teaspoons a day
What do ya think
01-15-2003, 12:23 AM #11Senior Member
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- May 2002
One thing to hit on... is Warriors post... Your not gonna make it with diet alone you gotta put these nutrients to use, hence feed the body, break the fiber, feed the body again and grow...but I take it you know this so lets just play like we don’t for the newbie’s...
Always good to hear from the Warrior dog, he's got the best questions and theories I've been hit with in a long ass time... boy can make me crack a few books to check my self. Just think if we had our knowledge combined six years ago. Shheeeaaatt. Yeah awe huh
Good question... It comes along with trying new things after being burnt out from the same food types. As my maintenance schedule holds I do two common diets. One utilizes carbohydrates and the other a percentile of fat substitutes for carbs. I always say one or the other; whether it be a cheat day or not, either sugar or fat or more carbs or use some good fat... it’s just easier for me. Enough about me though...
Remember fats are higher is cals so you don’t have to eat as much to get to the equal amount in carbs, but when you get to this level of boredom hey, what tha hell... now personally I only try and remove 15-20% of my carbs and replace with these fats, but you should at least try and get a mono in with any diet, (which most people probably do and just don’t know it)
Yeah oil is the easiest way to get your monos and polys in, in fact my fiancé and I (we eat a lot of popcorn for snacking and oatmeal cookies) use canola balance a mix of olive oil, soy, and canola when we cook our popcorn and oatmeal cookies(whole grain wheat,whole oats, sub apple sauce for sugar or splenda), as long a you look at the grams per serving and record what’s what in each batch 1tbsp = 5g poly & 7g mono...so 1tbsp = 98 calories...
Ok sounds complicated but I've been doing this for a while, I got bachelor recipes too, for us guys that aren't the best in the kitchen.
But keep it simple for now use bagels and pasta for your carbs and chicken & lean beef for your pro-tein... cook up the proper amount in grams, which you'll see on most all packages
I when single would use solely pasta for carbs which I might add... has no fat too. chicken and broccoli for pro-tein and fiber and mix the shit in one big ass bowl with some cream of mushroom soup, my total number in grams was in one single bowl(excluding the pro-tein and liquid aminos I ingested) I got my fat grams from butter for flavor. That was bachelor, I ate that shit for at least 4 months at a time only switching the meat type, but it works, trust me it works...
just a note brother... these fats are quickly digested as opposed to saturated fats which more times than none go directly in fat storage as adipose tissue...making your metabolism less efficient. Another thing to keep in mine is you will metabolize good fats quicker than starchy carbs like potatoes...
Monounsaturated fats contain "side chains" a single carbon-carbon double
bond. In polyunsaturated fats, the "side chains" contain several
carbon-carbon double bonds. Both monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats
are necessary for proper nutrition.
Last edited by mmaximus25; 01-23-2003 at 04:55 AM.
01-15-2003, 05:58 AM #12
Great Post, BUMP
01-23-2003, 07:20 AM #13Senior Member
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- May 2002
Water water every where
Water water every where (I thought I'd post this as a stand alone instead of a reply to my own post)
The water that you hold can be in my eyes split in two categories… One you feel bloated and the other you look puffy… Or perhaps both…
The bloat in your stomach is felt due to the water retained in your small and large intestine…. These two guys will actually need fluid to use in the digestion process but they do not need to retain large amounts of water… believe me when your intestine needs or uses fluids they will pull it from where ever they need to as a priority, your blood baby. Normal amount of water won’t make you feel bloated; small frequent meals will help keep the bloat out naturally…. Large meals well, ever feel bloated walking out of tha pasta place…. your stomach is fighting to break down the food just consumed but its loosing the battle because more food is being pilled on top. It can't complete it's full function to break down the ingested food, it will have to rely on it's buddy... your small intestine now, which will be overly taxed and need large amounts of fluid to aid in digesting the high volume newly ingested nutrients... Ya know what I’m talking about now…
Water retention in your muscle fibers isn’t always bad. in fact it’s the first sign showing you are storing high amounts of glycogen… With in your pro-tein (muscle) you will have pockets of glycogen build up, the fuel source binds to water or hydrogen and hydroxide. Glycogen is one of the ending results of carbohydrates broken down into glucose and part used for immediate fuel, part used for glycogen stored with in pro-tein further down the line becoming essential to ATP the fuel that moves your pro-tein fibers (muscle fibers)
Water is good not bad… you need this to grow, if you aren’t drinking enough water this will cause your intestine and body in whole to retain more due to the insufficient amount being consumed. In short you will retain more water by not drinking enough!!!
Water is the simplest yet most important nutrient we consume. Water is a natural thermogenic and diuretic. Once consumed water activates your kidneys to begin removing toxins from the body an excreted them in the form of urine. Water regulates our body temperature during high stress activity. Water aids in fat loss, as simple as the need to digest the very miracle fluid, we must consume energy to do so. Water is easily digested speeding up our metabolism…. Hence metabolizing fat deposits…
The real point and being made because of another head cracking poke by Warrior… Is trying to reduce the amount of water held but not so much you inhibit growth… Well, as simply as I can put this… the reason we hold an excess amount of water is due to our high starchy or process complex carbohydrate intake… Not that high is bad, but you can put it plain and simple… the huge amounts of water is a clue that you aren’t using your glycogen sufficiently enough. Your ratio of intake of longer/ harder to digest carbs to consumption of the end use of glucose is off and although you may grow while suffering high water retention you could do it with a little less water…. The glucose that isn’t used becomes added adipose tissue deposit areas (fatty areas on the body), the glycogen not used in the muscle fibers binds to gases that combined is essentially water and is held there until used for energy or stored for long use as fat.
So the answer to helping with water retention is simple, intake a carb source your body easily digests and uses as fuel, (non-process carbs, and fibrous carbs) if water is an issue in the intestine then try using an herbal diuretic to alleviate that, and definitely consume more water.
So ending point you need water, water helps to reduce water retention and if the proper complex carbs are taken you will metabolism the glycogen stored when working out and as long as you continue to create this cycle your energy will be high, and along with proper intake of fats and pro-teins you will grow….
Last edited by mmaximus25; 02-20-2003 at 11:17 AM.
01-23-2003, 07:36 AM #14
great post MMAX......Madmax..
01-23-2003, 08:39 AM #15Senior Member
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- May 2002
Madmax... check your PM...Yeah, bro I was thinkin we should help some of these new bro's out...god knows I could have used it when I started...
02-02-2003, 09:53 PM #16Senior Member
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- May 2002
I revised the time of day to be more detail, with reason. Still may need more detail but it was ment for a quick cap to the new pin cushions on the board
07-11-2003, 05:55 PM #17Senior Member
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- May 2002
MajorP here's the post I keep revising....
MajorP here's the post I keep revising....
Added more thought on water.... but I'm really bumping for any new bros that might not know this type of info....
07-11-2003, 07:10 PM #18
This is always a good one to see back at the top.
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