Hello, am I completely off?

Hi everyone,
I've been reading these forums a lot the last few days and I really like em. Just wanted to say hello and get some advice from you all if you don't mind ;)

I've been training for over 6 years naturally so far. I will be doing my first cycle as soon as I get my bodyfat down to an acceptable level. I've done a lot of research, but I'd just like some people who've "been there" to take a look. Here's what I'm planning. The goal is to have a lean gainer/cutting cycle.

Weeks 1-4 Dbol 20 mg/day
Weeks 1-8 Test enan 250mg/week
Weeks 1-8 Primo 200-300mg/week (not exactly sure yet)
Weeks 5-10 Winny 50mg/day
Week 11-13 Post cycle clomid and ECA

I'll have nolva on hand also and may run it weeks 1-8 if necessary.
My thoughts on running the test and primo for only 8 weeks is that everything will wear off approximately the same time after week 10.
I've seen cycles similar to this, but not exactly. From what I understand, this should accomplish my goals, but I definitely welcome opinions :)

Thanks!
Platinum

imo.. up the dbol to 35mg/d and teh test 500mg/week

definately up the dbol and test.

Ok, so I up the test and dbol (had a feeling you might say that). Now it looks like:

Weeks 1-4 Dbol 35 mg/day
Weeks 1-8 Test enan 500mg/week
Weeks 1-8 Primo 200-300mg/week (not exactly sure yet)
Weeks 5-10 Winny 50mg/day
Week 11-13 Post cycle clomid and ECA


You're right, that does look better. Any other suggestions, comments, concerns? :)

Thanks
Platinum

I couldn't help but notice that you're running Winstrol right after D-bol.
It is not a good idea to be running two 17-aa substrates consecutively. Both Dianabol and Winstrol are methylated compounds with a fairly high toxicity. I would not risk it.

Instead, try something like this:

Weeks 1-4 Dbol 35 mg/day
Weeks 1-8 Test enan 500mg/week
Weeks 1-8 Primo 200-300mg/week
Weeks 9-13 Winny 50mg/day
Weeks 11-13 Post cycle clomid and ECA

Also I thought I'd comment on the dosage issue....

Since this is going to be your first cycle you do not yet know how susceptible your body is to gyno. As you (hopefully) know the rate of aromatization of both D-bol and Test is quite great, and you will be taking both of these cocurrently. My recommendation would be to lower your D-bol dose to 25mg/ed. I made great gains off of 20mg/ed.

Remember: The risk of side-effects ALWAYS increases with dosage... More is not always better for everybody. Start low, if side-effects are not excessive, increase the dosage at your own discretion.

no offense but this seems to be alot of gear to be running for your first cycle??

Polska - The concern you raise about two 17a's in a row is one I share. My question about your proposal is this: Will the post cycle clomid therapy be essentially wasted since I'll still be on winny? I don't think so, but I just want to double check.

Abstrack - Do you mean a lot of different kinds of gear, or high dosages?

Thanks so much :)

Platinum

P.S. Abstrack, I just noticed your sig.....LOL

Quote:

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Originally posted by abstrack
no offense but this seems to be alot of gear to be running for your first cycle??

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I second that. And you haven't even mentioned your bodyweight and bodyfat - which would both be variables in figuring out a total weekly milligram for you. You are talking about running over a gram per month of AAS... what exactly are your goals? And why don't you give more stats and fill out your profile?

Warrior -
I will fill out my profile. Thanks for reminding me.

Currently I'm 6'0" 230 lbs. I'm at about 15% bodyfat right now. When I start the cycle my bf will be at or below 10% and my weight will probably be between 210 and 220 (I'm hoping closer to 220). I just don't think I should start before that (see my goals below).

My goal for this cycle is to harden me up nicely after I lose all that fat. If I gain a few pounds in the process, that's a plus. Again, this will be my first though, so that's why I started this thread....to learn more from those with experience. I'm especially concerned about the amount of juice. I tend to think that a little can go a long way, but again...I have no experience.

I've been training well over 5 years. I'm 30. My diet is super clean right now and will be when I'm on, although I'll probably have to bump up the calories a bit then. I am supplementing right now with protein, eca, and vitamins only.

If there's anything else that will help, please let me know.

*runs off to fill out profile*

Thanks again!
Platinum

lol - my current stance on this is not to go overbaord on the gear. Although many hear like huge stacks I will sugeest this for you - if you eat clean and/or do cardio you will be able to add quality muscle and harden up. And then next time when you cut up - try something more androgenic like Trenbolone/Winstrol... or testosterone.

Deca or Primo: 800/400/400/400/400/400/400/400/
Dbolz: 25mg ED for first 5 weeks.
Follow up with Clomid.

That's all I would suggest. You're at a natural testosterone peak in your life right now (30 years old). Your endogenous test levels should keep you from going limp while on Deca. Most problems with Deca dick can be avoided at 400mg per week and under - and the Dbol helps too. If this is a concern - run the designer drug Primobolan Depot :D It is said to have been one of Arnold's favorites.

I just don't think huge stacks should be thrown around as much as they are... run all that gear if you want, this is just my honest opinion. It's your first stack - and I don't think taking advantage of virgin receptors is a valid point - since your body is constantly getting exposed to testosterone and other hormones naturally. I think folks get there best results from the first cycle simply because they are their lightest - and adding muscle is easier to see.

Most importantly keep training hard.

Thanks for the feedback warrior. I'm terrified of the dreaded deca-dick lol, so I would very likely run primo instead.


Anyone else?

Thanks!

Platinum

:)