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like i said before, i waited long enough for tren/winny to get out of my system (2 weeks), and then i started cloimd therapy 300/200/150 then 100mg daily for the following 3 weeks, after week 2 i went to get levels checked, and here they are, very interesting, (note the high test levels), not that high though i was reading pros before competitions usually have on average between 3000-9000...amazing
Where do i get that done? what is it called ? how much does it cost?
yep, it went way up from the fina...but you should see, its much lower than it was when i was on...good looking out on your concerns though...and decoder, different people call it different things, my doc just calls it 'blood work', doesn't cost me anything until my health insurance expires..id say probably around 80-100 bucks retail though...thats just an approximate, i really dont have the slightest...if you need anything on there explained just ask, i know what most stand for...
Is their anything on the blood work test that shows for your liver?Or do you need to take a different test?Iam geting ready for my first cycle was kinda wanting to get liver look at.
I just got my blood taken today. I got the testosterone total and free test along with a few others. I am not sure how long it will take for the results, but I will post my results as well. I had to pay for the test.... 78 dollars. That is the most expensive blood test on the chart. At least my deductible is taken care of for this year now. The bad thing is that the doc was in a rush to get to her next patient and I told her that I wanted to get this test, and she goes, "why do you want that done?" so I told her that I take alot of supplements so I'm worried. She has this idea that I have anxiety issues, so she goes, "we're gonna have to talk about this next time at the follow up... we're definitely gonna have to discuss this... but i'll get the blood tests, maybe it'll put your mind at ease at least".
Anyways, I finished clomid over a week ago, and I finished my cycle about 7-8 weeks ago. The results should be interesting.
Your Blood Urea Nitrogen levels suggests you drank plenty of fluids.
I had a test like this done after my second cycle last year. It was probably 6 weeks post-cycle. My test levels were back in the normal range and all my hepatic/renal numbers were ok. It does make me feel alot better about juicing when I can see tests that show me all the parts are still ticking! It's worth the $ for the peace of mind let alone the preventative medical value!
Oh i get that test done in 2 weeks anyways by my doc ill just ask for a print out. I didn't realize they looked at all that stuff in a blood test.
ok jon what is... BUN, SGOT, SGPT, A/G Ratio? the rest i know.
Actually a SrCr of 1.4 is nothing to worry about. Remember this is a very individualized test. People with more muscle mass will automatically have a higher SrCr than the average person. Creatanine is a product of creatine metabolism from muscle and is therefore directly dependent on muscle mass. Remember there is no accepted single standard for an "abnormal" serum creatanine as it is gender, race, age and body mass dependent. The reference ranges are derived from average population paramaters. Most average people do not have increased lean body mass like weight lifters do. Even your Dr. knows this (or they should). Also, one single test/# alone means nothing. It is just a starting point. When we see someone with an increased SrCr, regardless, we are concerned but cannot base any assumptions on one reading. If you were to get a SrCr reading a week later, and it was say 1.6-1.8 than we begin to look for the problem. This does not apply to extreme cases as if someone were in the hospital and hemodynamically unstable to begin with. But you are not 'critically ill', nor hemodynamically unstable. So I would not worry. AAS will increase SrCr, creatine use will increase SrCr. If you were to get a blood draw right after intense exercising, you would show elevated SrCr. But does this mean you are going into renal failure? Highly unlikely. The amount of SrCr in your blood (plasma) just tells us how well your kidneys are doing at filtering it out of the blood. It ultimately provides us with the ability to calculate creatanine clearance which tells us the glomerular filtration rate of the kidneys. The kidneys should be able to filter creatanine effectively. Any decrease in GFR may implicate renal dysfunction. Sorry to spew:)Quote:
Originally posted by dickrenegade
i'd be concerned about a createnine of 1.4 in a guy your age. this means your kidneys probably took a "hit" from whatever it was you did. i'd also drink lots of fluids for a week or two and go back and get it rechecked (just ask for a profile 1 or basic metabolic profile - same thing) to see if it corrects.
what you have above is a cmp (complete metabolic profile) or profile 2 plus a test level.
dick
So one should always get blood work done before starting a cycle to know what your normal levels should be after?
BUN - blood urea nitrogen
SGOT/SGPT - liver enzymes, the higher they are, the more your liver is leaking, thus the more damage
and im not sure about A/G, someone else can probably explain...
wow, excellent info...Quote:
Originally posted by ichabodcrane
Actually a SrCr of 1.4 is nothing to worry about. Remember this is a very individualized test. People with more muscle mass will automatically have a higher SrCr than the average person. Creatanine is a product of creatine metabolism from muscle and is therefore directly dependent on muscle mass. Remember there is no accepted single standard for an "abnormal" serum creatanine as it is gender, race, age and body mass dependent. The reference ranges are derived from average population paramaters. Most average people do not have increased lean body mass like weight lifters do. Even your Dr. knows this (or they should). Also, one single test/# alone means nothing. It is just a starting point. When we see someone with an increased SrCr, regardless, we are concerned but cannot base any assumptions on one reading. If you were to get a SrCr reading a week later, and it was say 1.6-1.8 than we begin to look for the problem. This does not apply to extreme cases as if someone were in the hospital and hemodynamically unstable to begin with. But you are not 'critically ill', nor hemodynamically unstable. So I would not worry. AAS will increase SrCr, creatine use will increase SrCr. If you were to get a blood draw right after intense exercising, you would show elevated SrCr. But does this mean you are going into renal failure? Highly unlikely. The amount of SrCr in your blood (plasma) just tells us how well your kidneys are doing at filtering it out of the blood. It ultimately provides us with the ability to calculate creatanine clearance which tells us the glomerular filtration rate of the kidneys. The kidneys should be able to filter creatanine effectively. Any decrease in GFR may implicate renal dysfunction. Sorry to spew:)
Thanks friend! After all, we are here to help each other!:)Quote:
Originally posted by djdjdjddjon
wow, excellent info...
bun levels are a good one to keep an eye on. I went in to the doctor a couple of years ago because my kidneys were kiling me. He ran a blood test and my bun level was a 26. I was about 23 at the time and he told me that at my age they should be 8-10. I was not on a cycle at the time and I was eating 250g plus og protein a day weighing about 190lbs. My body good not absorb all that protein so my kidneys were having to work overtime to try and cleanse my body and this shows by the extremely high bun level. I cut my protein intake by 80g and went back in 2 weeks and the level had dropped to about a 14 or 15 I think and the doc told me it was better but to still bring down the protein a little. High bun levels can damage your kidneys real quick.
I am getting ready to do my 1st cycle so I had my annual physical done yestreday. As the routine blood work was being ordered, I requested my testasterone to be tested, well, my Doc. had a strange reaction to that request, "why, tell me why you want that test?" "what is the reason, why the need to know?"...I wasn't going to confess, so in my mind I was thinking "shit, where do I go now?" and before I could say a word he said "I'll do a testasterone test only if you are having difficulties with your erections!" so, I said " yeah, yeah...that is it...I am having difficulties with my erections!" (my dick is in great working condition). Not only he ordered the test but he gave me 10 viagra pills (100mg) !!!!
There is no way I can go back there couple more times to request additional basic metabolic profile + test. blood exam.
How do you guys get a doc. to order so many blood tests ? Money is not an issue for me, I don't think a doc. will do just because I am curious..
BTW: what could I expect to happen if in addition of being a freaking horney dog, great natural erections, plus doing a d-bol/test. enan and one of those 100mg.viagras? will my wife be needing orthopedic braces....LOL !!!
Wow, it seems like all you guys are 'scared' that your not healthy...Taking all these tests cause you use AS.... Im not the one to judge but doesnt it all seem not worth it? These are all the 'long term' side effects that comes with AS..Thats not even the short term sides that drives us all nuts(hair loss, acne, aggression, ect)... Is our health worth all of this?? Just something to think about...
I think his test are showing us exactly what we want to see. Liver enzymes returning to normal, a creatinine level that is high but not dangerously so (since this is high in weighlifters anyway), and some evidence that clomid is working. Good to see dJ.
Don't worry friend, I didn't "get you". You post very valuable information. I think everyone should know where they stand when it comes to their health. These tests are merely a tool in evaluating our status. Most of the time when we use AAS our lab values will show as abnormal. But they are usually transient, and should become normal upon cessation. But the general medical practioner and medical community in general aren't (although some are) usually used to dealing with weight lifters, or should I say intense weight lifters and especially those using AAS and all the various supplements etc. This is why it is hard for them to make assumptions based on these tests, because so many factors need to be considered in evaluating them, ie. protein intake, intense weight lifting, supplements, drugs (AAS/ancillaries etc.) I once had a blood draw for a physical right after training, and the clinician literally thought I was having a heart attack because my CK enzymes and BP were elevated. They kept me "detained" for 3 hours until finally the attending came and realized it was only because I just got done with intense exercise. So sometimes we need to help in educating others in this manner. It is good that we take the initiative to research everything we can about AAS use, intense exercise and so forth, because like I said the general practitioner is not used to dealing with this. They are used to seeing people with true disease states, where their lab values are abnormal. They often try and relate this experience to "us". Which IMO shoud be done with caution. I won't go into specifics, but so many things can cause temporary changes in lab values. These changes are starting points for us to use to further decide what to do. There are lots of informative people on this board, and it is good that we help each other out, especially our younger/newer bros who are coming into this game.Quote:
Originally posted by dickrenegade
you're right. forgot to take muscle mass into account. for the average person of his age 1.4 would be concerning... but if his muscle mass is above average then it's probably ok. i can tell you this.. if it were me i'd drink a ton of fluids and get it rechecked anyway and a GFR calculated which, like you said, is the true test of renal function or dysfunction!
you got me there. good call. sometimes i'm in such a damn hurry to post i forget things.
dick
Has anyone gotten that blood work thing done in Canada. Is it much different from the U.S.?!? Also, do you have to ASK for that paper with all the information on it or will the doctor just give it to you?!?
I remember getting blood work a while back, maybe 2 years ago, and the doctor never called me back or gave me a print out. I think maybe they only call you if something is wrong?!?
dick and ichabod are like, really smart
thanks rickson, i dont think the guy talking about side affects know exactly what hes talking about, i get the tests to ensure everything is ok, not because im worried about my health, its like a regular check up, wanna make sure everything is all good...
The Endo screen may be of value to some of you:-)...
https://www.anabolicfitness.net/shop...e&subcat=26674
Shawn
Let me ask you one question! Do you use AAS? If not, then you may not understand where those of us who do are coming from. Of course there are risks with using them. They are well documented. We are finding out everyday the rammifications of long term AAS use. So by getting regular check-ups and blood draws, we are just seeing where we stand in this game. It is not that we are "scared" we are not healthy, but we do this so we can take proper interventions when needed. Smart thing to do. I'm not bashing you, but look at it from the 'other side'. I, as well as most everyone else, advocates regular check-ups. Not because we are scared, but because we want to know what to do when these tests warrant further action. Do I get regular check-ups? Not like I should. But I do know when I go on cycle: 1) my BP increases, 2)my lipid profile becomes abnormal, 3)my liver enzymes become elevated, etc. So I know this, and I prepare for it accordingly. I guarantee that most people on cycle have these same side-effects. These questions come up all the time. We all know the risk we are taking (or should). Do you think it is wrong to get regular check-ups? If you choose to use AAS and other related substances, it is your responsibility to take care and take charge of your wellbeing, because I guarantee most practitioners are against our beliefs. We come together on this board to share experiences and relate them to each other in the ultimate effort to help each other out. The more we know, the better off we are. Maybe I might be more educated in some aspect of drug use/sides etc, while someone else may be in another. It is this conjunction that allows for the excellent information provided on this board. Nobody is smarter than another! I never said, nor will say I am smarter than anybody. I am just a normal person. We are all human, we all have the capacity to learn and share. I'm currently in my last year of pharmD. school (I know, so what!).This doesn't mean I know everything about every drug and drug-interaction/drug-event, but I have had some good learning experiences and also have access to good resource materials when I don't know answers. Nobody knows everything! Just because someone is a Dr. doesn't mean they know everything. They may be very knowledgeable like I said in certain aspects, but they also learn new things everyday, as do we all. I think it is also part of our responsibility as AAS users to help educate practitioners who don't know our lifestyles. They are often presented with off-the-wall lab readings, ECG's etc. and don't really know what to make of them. They just follow standard protocol, but sometimes for us (AAS users/weight trainers) it may need to be adjusted or thought about differently, although not always. Life is a learning experience. I never believe people should only take the advice from someone sitting behing a comuter. No one here can diagnose or recommend drug therapy. We can only make suggestions based on our experiences and what has/has not worked for us. There is a big difference between making a recommendation and making a suggestion. We all play in the same game.Quote:
Originally posted by solid-d
Wow, it seems like all you guys are 'scared' that your not healthy...Taking all these tests cause you use AS.... Im not the one to judge but doesnt it all seem not worth it? These are all the 'long term' side effects that comes with AS..Thats not even the short term sides that drives us all nuts(hair loss, acne, aggression, ect)... Is our health worth all of this?? Just something to think about...
Thanks for the compliment. I am no smarter than you! I may have more experience in certain things, but I guarantee you do as well. :)Quote:
Originally posted by gettinthere
dick and ichabod are like, really smart
I'd like to thank dick and ichabod for all the info they have posted, my knowledge has really increased because of this information, wish i was smart enough do do a pharm-d course.
And Solid, we just want to have all the information we can, so if there are any problems with kidneys, liver etc that we know about them and fix it before it turns into a major health issue.
I know the people who take the time to diet correctly, and take blood tests etc when they use AS are in the minority..
Believe me bro, if I can do it, I guarantee you could too. I will admit it is the most difficult endeavor I have ever entered into, but it can be done. Dedication!! I also have a very supportive wife and two young girls (11 and 5), so it is hard but not impossible. I think I struggle a little bit harder than others, but I do whatever it takes. Not fun, but hopefully worth it!:)Quote:
Originally posted by Lostsoul
I'd like to thank dick and ichabod for all the info they have posted, my knowledge has really increased because of this information, wish i was smart enough do do a pharm-d course.
And Solid, we just want to have all the information we can, so if there are any problems with kidneys, liver etc that we know about them and fix it before it turns into a major health issue.
I know the people who take the time to diet correctly, and take blood tests etc when they use AS are in the minority..