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  1. #1
    BigGreen's Avatar
    BigGreen is offline Anabolic Member
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    BiGGreen requesting feedback...thanks

    Okay, as per my obligations as a conscientious AR member, here are the stats before the question (as detailed as I am capable of currently providing) -

    Height: 6'1"
    Weight:255lbs
    Arms: 17"
    Calves: 17"
    Thighs: 27"
    Forearms: 13 1/2"
    Waist: 37"
    Strength: Decent, i suppose (335 bench, 495 deadlift, 410 squat)
    bodyfat: will have it done soon, though it is admittedly climbing at this point.
    Cycle Experience: None (though I did try the original muscletech stack)

    A quick background and where I stand: I've made great strides this year, moreso than i had expected to be honest, and am very happy with where i stand. However, weight gain seemed to start coming with equal parts muscle and fat once I hopped over 250lbs. I have 10 weeks or so left on a training cycle i'm following, at which point I'm going to spend five weeks trying to pare off a little of this over-250 fat. From there, it is my hope to make that final step to the darkside.

    Currently, I'm kicking around the idea of making my first cycle a relatively long one. For a variety of reasons i've come to believe in their efficacy, and firmly believe that, strictly from a physiological standpoint, they may just make for the "best" first cycles. Given the constant advice i hear and am given to make the most of fresh receptors, long cycles seem to be appropriate (i've never been subjected to, and thus haven't gotten accustomed to megadoses, so a less ambitious but longer in duration dosing scheme seems to make sense).

    I don't want to make this a book (as i tend so often to do), so i'll quickly summarize my thoughts and goals. What i'm considering is a traditional bulker: approximately 12 weeks of test (enan @ 500mg/week) and deca (currently thinking 300mg/week) with possibly a d-bol or prop kickstart followed by an approximately six week cycle (essentially weeks 13-conclusion) for lack of a better term "piggybacking" onto the bulker, in which the test is run at the continued dosage for about three more weeks, at which point winny at your standard dose and frequency carries me into clomid therapy (at which point i'd likely alternate clen and eca to maintain). I'd briefly entertained the idea of fina in those final 6-odd weeks or so, but believe i'll listen to what appears to be some sound advice and leave it out of my first cycle (unless someone has a compelling reason, aside from freaky strength gains and hardening, why it should be in there). As I understand it, most maintain that clomid therapy essentially remains the same despite the duration and that hcg becomes a factor once the cycle crosses the ten week mark (a plurality of suggestions seem to indicate that it should be introduced at durations approximating to equally spaced "thirds" of the cycle (ie, week 5, 10, and 15)...but i'll readily admit to being fairly ignorant with regards to this one.

    Anyone care to comment and offer suggestions, particularly as to whether i'm off my rocker in concluding that a relatively long cycle might actually be the ideal first cycle? Thanks.

  2. #2
    MBaraso's Avatar
    MBaraso is offline Retired Mod
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    BG I see what you're trying to say, and I see what your trying to acomplish but to be honest I think that D-bol,test e, prop, deca , winny, and fina in one cycle is a bit much for a first time user. That's alot for even someone who's experienced.
    I think you should stick to something like d-bol, test e, deca, and winny.
    Forget the fina and prop for this round. If you wanna run alittle longer cycle I don't see a problem w/ it. But don't go over 14 weeks.

  3. #3
    BigGreen's Avatar
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    MBaraso, I think in my haste to get that posted i blurred some details. I definitely do NOT think fina has a place in a first cycle, I just wanted to make sure I was correct in assuming that. On top of that, I wouldn't do prop and enan at the same time by any stretch of the imagination. The plan was to kickstart with EITHER d-bol or prop (definitely not both) and then switch over to a "simple" test enan and deca cycle for the remainder of what would be 12 weeks. At that point, my big debate is whether or not to piggyback winny on top of that (either extending the test, and thus the cycle, by a few weeks or just finishing off with winny alone). So, i do agree that I don't think all of that has its place in one cycle, especially for a first timer, I think i just managed to very poorly convey my intentions and layout (i tend to do that).

  4. #4
    Madmax's Avatar
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    try this...this is how i would have ran my first cycle...excet i would have used sust....Madmax..

    d-bol 30mg (1-4)
    test 500mg (1-12)
    deba 300mg (1-12)
    winny 50mg (10-15)

  5. #5
    painintheazz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Madmax
    try this...this is how i would have ran my first cycle...excet i would have used sust....Madmax..

    d-bol 30mg (1-4)
    test 500mg (1-12)
    deba 300mg (1-12)
    winny 50mg (10-15)
    I like it..

    Pain

  6. #6
    BigGreen's Avatar
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    madmax...thank you for putting in very simple straightforward terms what my dumb ass was trying to do in narrative form - that of trying to "explain" how i was wondering about the winny and test/deca combo overlapping...simplicity truly is a virtue. Given your outline above, my real question becomes, "is prop a more effective kickstarter than d-bol?"

    BTW, as i forgot, I am 23 years old...to be 24 within six months.

    EDIT: madmax, also curious as to why you'd use sust instead

  7. #7
    MBaraso's Avatar
    MBaraso is offline Retired Mod
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    I like max's cycle also. I think u should go w/ that.
    I never kick started w/ prop so I can't give a good recomendation on that but I think for your first time around you should give the d-bol a go over the prop because you're looking to put on some size and I would think d-bol will give you more of what your looking for..

  8. #8
    Madmax's Avatar
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    i did use sust on my first cycle and it went great...i agree with MBaraso i would also go with the d-bol..sust is the drug i react to best...i have used it 3 out of 4 cycles and IMO nothing i have ever used has comfared...not every one on this board enjoys sust as much as i do..but IMO once you find the drug that works best..you should stick with it...good luck bro...Madmax..

  9. #9
    web03 is offline Associate Member
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    I also agree with the sust on first cycle. I did the same thing and was very happy with results

  10. #10
    Rhino58's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Madmax
    try this...this is how i would have ran my first cycle...excet i would have used sust....Madmax..

    d-bol 30mg (1-4)
    test 500mg (1-12)
    deba 300mg (1-12)
    winny 50mg (10-15)
    Looks exactly like me first cycle.

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