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If I have the goal of gaining lean muscle, and loosing bf%, which would be more effective. I am thinking fina/winny only since there will be no estrogen conversion and the lack of test will make it much easier to keep the mass lean. Since there wouldn't be any test in there to cause water retention it would also be better for not getting bloats.
I'm wondering from the fina vets on here on this... where's OG at?
no need for OG bro im here ..hehe.i would definately run the prop in there aswell ur gonna love it ,watre retention with prop is very minimal.u can always take prov.with actually i recomend taking as it will ade u nad help keepin u dry and hard.the test will help u keep ur gains and most likey theyw ill be better with it .it will help ur soldier when it goes to battle too bro ,fina hits the hpta pretty hard so again its very advisable to run the prop.gaining lean mass and loosin bf is all upto diet and then teh gear .
my thought on this one is when cutting or hardening you can only get so hard. but if you have the size you desire then winny/tren will be lean gains and they work well together.i love the effects of test so i have never even tried winny/tren only.if you are worried so much about about the retention try adex or ldex and enjoy great sex.winny/tren/prop is one of my favorite cutters.run from 8-10 wks. hope this helpsQuote:
Originally posted by rampage76
If I have the goal of gaining lean muscle, and loosing bf%, which would be more effective. I am thinking fina/winny only since there will be no estrogen conversion and the lack of test will make it much easier to keep the mass lean. Since there wouldn't be any test in there to cause water retention it would also be better for not getting bloats.
I'm wondering from the fina vets on here on this... where's OG at?
word bro, no doubt that everything you said is true. what I was thinking was that if I throw prop into this mix, I am going to be making it much more difficult to loose bf% on it. I wasn't really too concerned with water retention since I don't usually have that problem, but its very hard to cut on test imo IN most cases. throwing in prop could also make the shutdown even harder right? as much as I love test in my cycle, this is a tough decision! i remember alot of points warrior had made about cuts being better with just fina/winny vs. prop/fina/winny. i wonder where he is now :unsure:Quote:
Originally posted by big N
no need for OG bro im here ..hehe.i would definately run the prop in there aswell ur gonna love it ,watre retention with prop is very minimal.u can always take prov.with actually i recomend taking as it will ade u nad help keepin u dry and hard.the test will help u keep ur gains and most likey theyw ill be better with it .it will help ur soldier when it goes to battle too bro ,fina hits the hpta pretty hard so again its very advisable to run the prop.gaining lean mass and loosin bf is all upto diet and then teh gear .
Yeah - water retention from testosterone can be minimized by proper diet - and a proper cutting diet should not lead to high water retention.
IMO - Really the only issue is the estrogen conversion which can make burning fat harder by indirectly giving your body a hormone that leads to fat retention - estrogen. You can cut this back by cutting the testosterone with trenbolone to keep androgenic activity high while dieting with less estrogen conversion. Some estrogen activity is healthy... but trenbolone is such a great cutting steroid because of the really high androgenic nature with no estrogen.
I am experimenting with a two phase cutting cycle - 40 days Tren/Prop then 40 days Tren/Win. The first 40 days have been for lowered bodyfat via lean weight gains from a proper cutting diet and cardio... the last 40 days will be lower bodyfat by more directly burning excess bodyfat stores.
Thanks Warrior, I knew that you had made some good points about why adding prop could make it more difficult to burn fat. I really shouldn't give you guys the wrong idea, I'm not doing this cycle to burn fat! I'm doing it for lean gains, with the goal of loosing bf% through proper diet and cardio. I just want the best cycle to fit my goals. I was thinking if tren/winny have no estrogen conversion, then it would be highly androgenic and promote burning stubborn fat (basically what warrior just said). I really want to hear it from the experienced about what worked for them, but that's hard to find sometimes!
Warrior, how's the tren/winny treating ya? If I remember correctly you switched over last week.
I know OG will tell you to throw in some prop with the fina/winny. Dont want rampage junior getting all depressed hehe ;) Also prop will give you minimum bloat and adding liq or adex will help even more with your goals.
Let me know how it works for you cause i have the same cycle in my head for the summer months.
Quote:
Originally posted by palme
I know OG will tell you to throw in some prop with the fina/winny. Dont want rampage junior getting all depressed hehe ;) Also prop will give you minimum bloat and adding liq or adex will help even more with your goals.
Let me know how it works for you cause i have the same cycle in my head for the summer months.
HAHA :D rampage junior, that's classic! Ok, I guess I'll keep on thinking about this and make a decision soon. I'm starting the cycle in April, I will definitely keep everyone informed.
I have one more day of Tren/Prop - then a switch to Tren/Win for the remaining 40 days. I will also do in-cycle Clomid EOD during the Tren/Win to make coming off easier. But the Tren/Prop portion was excellent for lean gains. I got some new pics to post today and will be working on scanning them shortly... I put on 10 pounds even with a clean diet and lots of cardio. So with some fat loss my gains in almost 40 days were about 10-15 pounds of lean weight and about 5 pounds b/f loss. And lookin' much more deffined at 260lbs.Quote:
Originally posted by rampage76
Thanks Warrior, I knew that you had made some good points about why adding prop could make it more difficult to burn fat. I really shouldn't give you guys the wrong idea, I'm not doing this cycle to burn fat! I'm doing it for lean gains, with the goal of loosing bf% through proper diet and cardio. I just want the best cycle to fit my goals. I was thinking if tren/winny have no estrogen conversion, then it would be highly androgenic and promote burning stubborn fat (basically what warrior just said). I really want to hear it from the experienced about what worked for them, but that's hard to find sometimes!
Warrior, how's the tren/winny treating ya? If I remember correctly you switched over last week.
IMO - since your goal is more toward lean gains then cutting - I would deffinitly suggest you do Prop/Tren ED. The testosterone mixed with trenbolone makes for a very good androgenic stack for lean gains. If your goal was to diet down - then I would suggest trenbolone with Winstrol.
Yeah, its settled then. Tren/prop/winny EDQuote:
Originally posted by Warrior
I have one more day of Tren/Prop - then a switch to Tren/Win for the remaining 40 days. I will also do in-cycle Clomid EOD during the Tren/Win to make coming off easier. But the Tren/Prop portion was excellent for lean gains. I got some new pics to post today and will be working on scanning them shortly... I put on 10 pounds even with a clean diet and lots of cardio. So with some fat loss my gains in almost 40 days were about 10-15 pounds of lean weight and about 5 pounds b/f loss. And lookin' much more deffined at 260lbs.
IMO - since your goal is more toward lean gains then cutting - I would deffinitly suggest you do Prop/Tren ED. The testosterone mixed with trenbolone makes for a very good androgenic stack for lean gains. If your goal was to diet down - then I would suggest trenbolone with Winstrol.
prop 50-100mg ed
fina 75mg ed
winny 50-100mg ed
all weeks 1-8 or 10
equals a happy camper :)
matt, i'll know soon, but not soon enough!
How is your cycle with the winny/prop/tren goin? I plan on taking that in 2 weeks, how are your gains?
I'm starting in about 2 weeks as well. And it will be just fina/winny
I know this is an old post, but how did the fina/winny cycle go? Did you run it?
Thanks