Post cycle therapy - HCG, clomid and Tribulus?

**FedSki** · 02-10-2003, 07:11 AM

In case you've read my earlier posts I've now changed my mind and decided to go for clomid (and nolva) post cycle. This will be following my three hcg injections.

Anyway, has anyone got experience of taking tribulus terrestis or simiar compounds as part of their post cycle therapy ? I particulalry want to hear from a user who has done more than one cycle and can compare their recovery while taking tribulus to their recovery without taking tribulus.

**FedSki** · 02-10-2003, 12:19 PM

bump

**FedSki** · 02-11-2003, 09:30 AM

one last bump before i give up on this one.

**ssoj** · 02-12-2003, 02:39 PM

I have not had a chance to use tribulus post cycle yet. I actualy found some info. suggesting Tribulus would help during your cycle for atropy of your peanut sized testicles. I have been using tribulus during my cycle and have seen a decrease in atrophy. I didn't actualy realize how much until i recently was sick and did not take the trib for 9 days. Now I need a magnifing glass and a mirror to find my nuts. I would conclude from what I have expreinced so far that Tribulus would be effective post cycle as-well. I will with out doubt use tribulus post cycle when I am finished with this cycle. This may not have been exactly what you were looking for but I figured I would atleast post my exprience since you did not have any replies. Hope this helps bro.
ssoj

**FedSki** · 02-12-2003, 05:16 PM

that's useful info ssoj and just what i was looking for. i'm sure there must be more folks out there who have used trib post cycle and have not yet read this thread. anyway i'm gonna give it a go, with clomid and see what happens.

**Jdawg50** · 02-12-2003, 05:35 PM

I hit trib, clomid and hcg in my last cycle. Liked it better than any recovery I have ever done. Worked well, kept the sex drive high as well as my dawg down stairs. I will use those three in all my post cycle regiments. I also used Nov for three week post.

**FedSki** · 02-12-2003, 05:57 PM

excellent news. trib it is. how much did you guys do each day?

***JohnnyB*** · 02-12-2003, 06:09 PM

Hey Bro, here's a few studies posted by hhajdo at Steroidology

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15 Related Articles, Links

The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C.

Human Performance Laboratory, University of Nebraska, Kearney, NE 68849-3101, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100-200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p <.05; bench press +/-28.4%, leg press +/-28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press +/-3.1%, not significant; leg press +/-28.6%, p <.05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

JohnnyB

***JohnnyB*** · 02-12-2003, 06:10 PM

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Sep;10(3):340-59 Related Articles, Links

Effects of anabolic precursors on serum testosterone concentrations and adaptations to resistance training in young men.

Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Reifenrath TA, Uhl NL, Parsons KA, Sharp RL, King DS.

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011, USA.

The effects of androgen precursors, combined with herbal extracts designed to enhance testosterone formation and reduce conversion of androgens to estrogens was studied in young men. Subjects performed 3 days of resistance training per week for 8 weeks. Each day during Weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8, subjects consumed either placebo (PL; n = 10) or a supplement (ANDRO-6; n = 10), which contained daily doses of 300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg DHEA, 750 mg Tribulus terrestris, 625 mg Chrysin, 300 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 540 mg Saw palmetto. Serum androstenedione concentrations were higher in ANDRO-6 after 2, 5, and 8 weeks (p <.05), while serum concentrations of free and total testosterone were unchanged in both groups. Serum estradiol was elevated at Weeks 2, 5, and 8 in ANDRO-6 (p <.05), and serum estrone was elevated at Weeks 5 and 8 (p <.05). Muscle strength increased (p <.05) similarly from Weeks 0 to 4, and again from Weeks 4 to 8 in both treatment groups. The acute effect of one third of the daily dose of ANDRO-6 and PL was studied in 10 men (23 +/- 4 years). Serum androstenedione concentrations were elevated (p <.05) in ANDRO-6 from 150 to 360 min after ingestion, while serum free or total testosterone concentrations were unchanged. These data provide evidence that the addition of these herbal extracts to androstenedione does not result in increased serum testosterone concentrations, reduce the estrogenic effect of androstenedione, and does not augment the adaptations to resistance training.

JohnnyB

***JohnnyB*** · 02-12-2003, 06:11 PM

It seems to have aphrodisiac properties...

Int J Androl 2000;23 Suppl 2:82-4 Related Articles, Links

Phytochemicals and the breakthrough of traditional herbs in the management of sexual dysfunctions.

Adimoelja A.

School of medicine 'Hang Tuah' University, Teaching and Naval Hospital,Surabaya, Indonesia.

Traditional herbs have been a revolutionary breakthrough in the management of erectile dysfunction and have become known world-wide as an 'instant' treatment. The modern view of the management of erectile dysfunction subscribes to a single etiology, i.e. the mechanism of erection. A large number of pharmacological agents are orally consumed and vasoactive agents inserted intraurethrally or injected intrapenially to regain good erection. Modern phytochemicals have developed from traditional herbs. Phytochemicals focus their mechanism of healing action to the root cause, i.e. the inability to control the proper function of the whole body system. Hence phytochemicals manage erectile dysfunction in the frame of sexual dysfunction as a whole entity. Protodioscin is a phytochemical agent derived from Tribulus terrestris L plant, which has been clinically proven to improve sexual desire and enhance erection via the conversion of protodioscine to DHEA (De-Hydro-Epi-Androsterone). Preliminary observations suggest that Tribulus terrestris L grown on different soils does not consistently produce the active component Protodioscin. Further photochemical studies of many other herbal plants are needed to explain the inconsistent results found with other herbal plants, such as in diversities of Ginseng, Eurycoma longifolia, Pimpinella pruacen, Muara puama, Ginkgo biloba, Yohimbe etc.

JohnnyB

**FedSki** · 02-12-2003, 06:15 PM

hmmm. now i'm thinking forget the trib. thanx JB.

ages ago i read somewhere that trib and a whole host of herbal supplements provided no provable benefits. so why have i also read that trib is useful in post cycle therapy and why are people coming forward to support that claim? maybe it provides a psychological advantage?

***JohnnyB*** · 02-12-2003, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by FedSki
so why have i also read that trib is useful in post cycle therapy and why are people coming forward to support that claim? maybe it provides a psychological advantage?

It could help some, it just didn't do anything for the test subjects. Or it could by your last question.

JohnnyB

**Juicifer** · 02-12-2003, 10:49 PM

is it possible tribulus is not potent enough to effect healthy testicles but shrunken shut down ones may benefit noticably? ssoj i'm assuming isn't making that up...it obviously effected his ball size...

***JohnnyB*** · 02-12-2003, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Juicifer
is it possible tribulus is not potent enough to effect healthy testicles but shrunken shut down ones may benefit noticably? ssoj i'm assuming isn't making that up...it obviously effected his ball size...

That could be, these test weren't done on someone who had testicles athorpied.

JohnnyB

**Juicifer** · 02-12-2003, 11:01 PM

exactly...so the tests though very informative...were not accurate for the purpose we are using it for...i'm sure it couldn't hurt and for those whose sex drive is effected thats reason enough

**FedSki** · 02-13-2003, 03:43 AM

i might get some and take it before the end of my cycle, well before i take my hcg and see if it has a noticable effect.

i'll let you know.

**Innervision** · 02-13-2003, 08:37 AM

THere's a new product claiming to outdo Trib and is made only for on or post-cycle that supposedly combines the active ingredient in Trib with other good stuff and disregarding the useless. Can't give it a good or bad rating yet, but will soon. oh, it's called 6-Oxo btw, just an fyi.

***JohnnyB*** · 02-13-2003, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Juicifer
exactly...so the tests though very informative...were not accurate for the purpose we are using it for...i'm sure it couldn't hurt and for those whose sex drive is effected thats reason enough

I don't know about the sex drive. But it didn't raise test levels and that's what your try to do post, with clomid.

JohnnyB

**Madmax** · 02-13-2003, 09:03 AM

with your cycle bro...your not going to need the hcg ....Madmax...

**FedSki** · 02-13-2003, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Madmax
with your cycle bro...your not going to need the hcg....Madmax...

erm, I know my body and I know what works for me. I'm into week 5 of my cycle and my balls are half the normal size and still shrinking.

i believe hcg is ESSENTIAL (for me), especially following a 10 week cycle to ensure the testes return to original condition and function.

***JohnnyB*** · 02-13-2003, 10:20 AM

Lawnsaver recommends doing 2 shots a week of 500iu to maintain nut size through a cycle. It's to late to maintain your full nut size, but you could probably keep what's left.

JohnnyB

**Madmax** · 02-13-2003, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by FedSki

erm, I know my body and I know what works for me. I'm into week 5 of my cycle and my balls are half the normal size and still shrinking.

i believe hcg is ESSENTIAL (for me), especially following a 10 week cycle to ensure the testes return to original condition and function.

how many cycles have you done?...if this is your first how could you know what works for your body...if it is your first then you have never tryed cloimd. so that means you don't know how clomid could eefect you..you take hcg through out a cycle to avoid testicular atrophy...yoiu take it at the end to avoid a crash...and at the end it's better to spread them out over 14 day's at 500 iu. per day than shooting 3 shots for 2 or 3 weeks...

HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in re-estab-lishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage....

everybodies balls get like that during a cycle...this is your first cycle correct....testicular atrophy is caused by mega doses and very long periods of usage...10 weeks at the amount your running is not considered either....hcg does help...i'm just saying clomid will work good enough for you...bro, i think you belive that hcg is going to fix your nuts in every way...it's not..i'm just trying to help bro...no need to get upset.....Madmax

**FedSki** · 02-13-2003, 05:21 PM

max, i'm not upset.

it's my third cycle but my first 'decent' cycle. i used hcg after my second cycle and found it blew my balls right back up. that's why i'm using hcg. you and i don't know how well clomid will work for me. you also don't know what my natural test levels are.

i'm not taking any chances - i've put on a lot of weight and i'm gonna try to keep most of it by taking hcg then clomid. i appreciate the help max but you haven't told me anything new.

and i've read conflicting suggestions and stories on what works best. 500iu a week for two weeks mid cycle, 1500iu a week mid cycle, 1500iu at the end.

i've opted to go with 1500iu every 5 days at the end of my cycle.

**Madmax** · 02-13-2003, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by FedSki
max, i'm not upset.

it's my third cycle but my first 'decent' cycle. i used hcg after my second cycle and found it blew my balls right back up. that's why i'm using hcg. you and i don't know how well clomid will work for me. you also don't know what my natural test levels are.

i'm not taking any chances - i've put on a lot of weight and i'm gonna try to keep most of it by taking hcg then clomid. i appreciate the help max but you haven't told me anything new.

and i've read conflicting suggestions and stories on what works best. 500iu a week for two weeks mid cycle, 1500iu a week mid cycle, 1500iu at the end.

i've opted to go with 1500iu every 5 days at the end of my cycle.

cool bro...just trying to help out....alot of people use the hcg for their own concious reasons...just so they feel better about their balls....i used it this cycle...after your done using it, your nuts shrink backdown a little....hope it goes well for you....good luck bro...Madmax...