Forgive the N00b!

**StrutDaRooster** · 02-10-2003, 03:23 PM

Hey folks,

Here's a little Background info:

Im 21, 5'11, 230lbs meso leaning slightly towards endo. I put on mass relatively quickly..

Ive been lifting since high school, but in the past few months, Ive been lifting for size.. prior to that I was trying to look like your average Men's Health guy (I know, pathetic, but I have sen the light!)

So Ive decided to not figh tmy genetics, and go for size & symmetry...

Here's some pix of the results of my aggressive bulk.. I went from 205lbs to 235lbs (naturally)

now Im kinda stuck.. my bf% is not where i want it to be, but I dont want to cut too aggressively becuase I dont have near enough muscle.

I am interested in doing a cycle

But I have no clue where to start.. Ive read up on many boards, but it just seems like a BIG BUNCH of INFO overload!!

I'd say I have my diet and trainining pretty much down to a discipline. But as far as gear.. I have no clue.. in my area.. there really arent any real life people I could talk to about this..

so...

I want to:
~Increase my strenth and muscularity, espcecially density.

My main concerns are:
~Putting on excess fat.

Id really appreciate any help and suggestions you guys have. please feel free to ask me anything that would help clarify my situation.

THanks in advance!

**StrutDaRooster** · 02-10-2003, 03:24 PM

@ 230lbs, last week

Forgive the stupid pose, I just wanted to showcase my leg size.

Im 5'11
230lbs
waist: 37

legs: 30
calves: 17
arms: 17

chest: 46

**StrutDaRooster** · 02-10-2003, 03:25 PM

oops forgot to post it.

**StrutDaRooster** · 02-10-2003, 03:34 PM

summore pix

**Madmax** · 02-10-2003, 06:56 PM

i am going to give you an honest opinion....so take this just as advice and don't get upset...Madmax..

bro, your no where near ready to use juice...for 5'11 at 230 with the amount of tone that you have (which is barely visible) i would focus on diet....you said you have your diet down, but obviously you don't...you should contact a personal trainer to loose the body fat, i'd say your well over 20%. and thats underestimating it quite a bit...you should try switching up your training regiment and diet plan....i would cut the high amounts of fat and carbs your getting now...you need to stick with the basic before you go to the next level...we want everyone to succeed here and there are plenty of good bro's to help you....email swolecat he is pretty knowledgeable at helping people with diets...goodluck bro..Madmax..

**StrutDaRooster** · 02-10-2003, 07:00 PM

Sweet. Thanks.

Yeah, I agree. My, bf is no where near where it needs to be, and I think i mentioned before.. that i had just got done doing an aggressive bulk (as far as upping my calories)

WHat i mean my having my diet down..is I have the discipline down. I track my marcos daily, and I keep an online training journal on another site.

Im not looking to start ASAP, but I do want to start learning as much as I can so I can get ready.

Again, thanx, and I totlly appreciate any feedback you guys have.. Ive got a pretty thick skin and an open mind..

**Madmax** · 02-10-2003, 07:12 PM

glad you took it as constructive critisism.(thats what it was)...if you need info on juice theres plenty of it in the drug profiles and educational threads...if you don't understand something that you've read then post a question, but try to make sure it's one that hasn't already been awnsered...theres always a search button thats pretty helpful...hope you find what your looking for....later bro..Madmax..

**BigGreen** · 02-10-2003, 08:29 PM

Strut: my sincere congratulations on being one of the few noobs actually willing to listen (the qualifiers preceding Max's post should tip you off as to how infrequently this occurs). The fact that you are able to do so tells me that you'll go far when that time does come. You appear to have a large ribcage...something which I firmly believe is one of the greatest determinants of potential chest size. On top of that you certainly have a great foundation to work with around the "trunk". However, there's two sides to every coin (well, except those damn physics-defying one-sided coins...but that's another story) and your extremities look as if they'll always be fighting a tough battle against the size that will likely come from the trunk...calves particularly.

Additionally, I'm going to respectfully disagree with Max on one aspect. Whereas he says you are nowhere near ready for juice, I would say that is not entirely true. I certainly do not think you're ready, but at 21 and with a legitimately good base I think you're closer than "nowhere near". This really comes down to semantics, as Max and I may, on the "spectrum" see you at exactly the same place but simply utilize differing terms in our voicing of these opinions. By the way, Max knows a bit more than me on the subject, so I'd give more weight to his opinion. However, many are the individuals who seemed less ready than you, went ahead regardless and made some decent gains (whether or not they kept them is another story). So, in my opinion, take the next year (preferably two) and do your research (if you can't hold court on the half lifes of different esters, how they play into your cycle planning, the advantages of these different esters, the differences between anabolics and androgens, etc, etc, you are NOWHERE near ready)...during those two years dedicate a good amount of time to putting on quality size while getting the bodyfat under control..you seem to have it together enough to make a good run of it. I'm willing to bet that in those two years you'll make gains (naturally) that you would have been happy as a pig in shit to have made with juice...then just think what gear will do from there.

**StrutDaRooster** · 02-11-2003, 10:41 AM

BigGreen & MadMax: Thanx for your kind words

I kinda see my self in the position you described. I think that my anxiety to learn about juicing comes partly from my post bulk blues

It was awesome seeing my size and strength go up with additional calories, but now that I reached a point of diminishing returns (meaning, the muscular gains had slowed down, and the bodyfat was rising) I feel kind aat a loss..like where do I go from here?

Im stoked that I was able to breach 230lbs.. two years ago with my first bulk, I was able to get up to 227lbs... but then I lost alot of it when I tried to get down below 195lbs..

But Im patient. Like you said. I have seen alot of guys at my gym, just blow of and deflate in the matter four months.. and at the end of those months they looked horrible, like one dude had horrible all over body acne after the 3rd month.. one dude started smelling fould and his body got a wierd color to it.. another dude's jaw started to look real gorilla-y.. I didnt know these guys bu I just kinda watched them out of the corner of my eye, know what I mean?

so.. in order to learn.. like.. what should I look for first? Like, where is my square one? Ive visited numerous sites, but all ive been able to find are specifics, things that would make sense to more advanced users... but still looks like gibberish to me.

Thanks in advance!
~S

**BigGreen** · 02-11-2003, 10:53 AM

The Education Threads and Drug Profiles are a great start. From there, you should undoubtedly have questions raised in your mind (ie, what's a good first cycle, which drugs have a reputation for being all around "easier" on a newb, etc, etc). That's when you go to hell on that search button...beat it, abuse it. From there, just LURK...the conversations that take place on a daily basis here contain far more empirical and anecdotal evidence then virtually book purporting to educate one on steroids . In my opinion T-Mag.com also has some very informative articles.

**Rickson** · 02-11-2003, 10:55 AM

Start in the Educational Threads forum. Then look at drug profiles. Also spend some time on the Cycles forum and the Fitness forums. Once you see what AAS interest you do a search on those AAS and learn what people have to say about them. I just want to say this has been the way all threads should go on this board. Best of luck and let us know if we can help with anything.

**Big_BoneZ** · 02-11-2003, 11:00 AM

rather than bulking, you might wanna try cutting, and you dont need any cycles yet for it, you can do it naturally. kwow anything about ECA?

Ephederine/Caffeine/Aspirin
Get ephederine at 25mg/tab (from any supplement store), they might sell you one with 8 mg, if you are in canada, if US you should have no problem
Caffeine comes in 200mg/tab
and Aspirin is normal at 325 mg, but some tabs are 500mg and 650 mg (coated)
coated tabs are a little better on your liver.

you can start off by taking 2 tabs a day each

one stack earlier in the day, and one stack later like an hour before workout

stay on this for a week and then bump it up to 3-4 stacks a day, but dont overdose ( IT CAN DO SERIOUS DAMAGE)

ephederine/caffeine will give you a good pump also (making you really hyper)

I got my brother to do this stack.. but he is much thinner, wants to get cut... so with resistace training/CARDIO/ECA, there should be no way you will NOT drop pounds

if you CAN, do 30 mins cardio atleast 4 days a week, and you will be surprised at the end of the month.

P.S. dont drop your calories too much, if you dont want to loose muscle

**Slypknot** · 02-11-2003, 11:26 AM

Another thing is eating!!!

What worked for me, without even having to do the ECA, was to increase my meals to 6 per day and decrease their size. I was used to eating a small (or no) breakfast, mild lunch, HUGE dinner.... now I just eat 5-6 smaller meals, am never hungry (well, unless I'm on Deca ) and am able to lose ALOT of BF. I'm 5'10, was outta shape and weighed in at 215....4.5 months of eating this way, working out 30mins EOD in the gym I went down to 177.

So diet is key.

**StrutDaRooster** · 02-11-2003, 01:27 PM

THanks again guys.. here's summore info about me.. that I didnt mention before.

I eat 6-8 times a day, each meal ranging from 300-600 cal.
My protein aim is 220-250 non lifting days, 240-260 lifting days.
I got by for the past few years just trackin gcals and protein, but I think Im gonna have to start tracking carbs and fat.

I eat mostly whole foods, I dont eat anything overly proccessed except protein powders.

I train firist thing in the morn (convenience sake)

I supp with:
BCAA's (preworkout)
creatine
whey protein
multivitamin
vit c 3-6 g a day

Most of my protein comes from real food proteins such as:
chicken breast
eggs
tuna
beef

THe only time I supp with protein is postworkout and sometimes before bed.

I train 4-5 times a week