Deca Questions from a 1st timer

**CutUp** · 02-19-2003, 05:57 PM

Hey Bros
I've been reading this message board for a few months now, finally decided I would join and ask a few questions. I've read the educational threads, done searches and tried to research on my own, now I need your help to clear up a few things. Bear with me this might get long, I've got a couple of questions.
all this is from my research, correct me if I'm wrong on anything:

I'm interested in Deca . I read that gyno is a possibility but not much of one in low doses(200-400mg/week)
I've also read that Deca aromitizes into Progesteron, not estrogen. So it seems to me that this would make proviron , nolva, or any other anti-e's worthless. Is an anti-e even needed for low doses of deca(lets assume this is a deca only cycle)?
Can proviron or a similar substance help out with "deca-dick"?(I know test will)? And, will proviron(or similar substance) help reduce water retention?

Here's a bit about me to help you bro's out:
I'm 22 years old, 6ft 3in, 175lbs. aprox. 11-12% BF. I've been lifting recreationally for a few years, decided to get serious about my body in the last year. I started researching diets, and cleaned mine up.
I'm taking in 5000cal/day (clean cal's) and 250-300g Prot. I lift heavy 3 times a week. I don't do cardio at the moment b/c I'm already skinny and am trying to put on more muscle mass.

Right now I'm natural, taking only GNC type supps. I have given some thought to a light cycle. I've considered EQ, Whinny, and/or Deca.
I don't want to blow up, just want to get some medium gains and stay cut up.
I'm considering Deca alone, with proviron to keep water retention to a min. I am looking into something like this:

Wks 1-10 Deca 300mg/week
Wks 1-10 Proviron 25mg/day
Wks 8-10 Clen , building up to 120mg/day
Clomid therapy 3 weeks after last Deca inj.
Note: I will run more clen if needed, in the 2 wk on/2 wk off fashion.

Like I said, I'm tall and skinny, my metabolism is very high. I have a hard time putting on mass with my dimensions. I don't want to explode but I would like to gain some solid muscle mass I can keep. I play a good many sports and would like this to help my athleticism, its not just for looks.
Please understand when advising me that I'm not going for a bodybuilder look, just some athletic, keepable gains. Thanks for your help bro's.
I know this was long...but one more thing...
How much of a risk is there for stretch marks on a cycle like this?
Thanks again for any help.

**daem** · 02-19-2003, 06:31 PM

welcome to the board and glad to see you did some homework before posting a potential cycle. too many people ask questions that don't get good responses because they didn't use the search button. to answer your question, you could use arimidex or ldex instead of proviron . the arimidex will help fight bloating/water retention and will help prevent the onset of gyno. you will want to add in some test if you are concerned about libido problems to fight the dreaded DD, especially at 22...modify your cycle like this:

1-10 300 mg deca /wk
1-10 50 mg test prop/day

to put on some good quality muscle to get that athletic look you seek i wouldn't take the clen unless you end up putting on some fat. pack on the pounds, then drop the weight after cycle instead of while on. you want to get every drop out of the deca/test for the 10 weeks that you are on. hope this helps out some.

**mmaximus25** · 02-19-2003, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by CutUp
Hey Bros
I've been reading this message board for a few months now, finally decided I would join and ask a few questions. I've read the educational threads, done searches and tried to research on my own, now I need your help to clear up a few things. Bear with me this might get long, I've got a couple of questions.
all this is from my research, correct me if I'm wrong on anything:

I'm interested in Deca . I read that gyno is a possibility but not much of one in low doses(200-400mg/week)
I've also read that Deca aromitizes into Progesteron, not estrogen. So it seems to me that this would make proviron , nolva, or any other anti-e's worthless. Is an anti-e even needed for low doses of deca(lets assume this is a deca only cycle)?
Can proviron or a similar substance help out with "deca-dick"?(I know test will)? And, will proviron(or similar substance) help reduce water retention?

progesterone is an estrogen just like estrodiol. Think of it as estrogen is the general hormone. Just like tesosterone is an androgen...

Proviron is an anti- aromatasis-meaning it wont let testosterone aromatize into estrogen, Nolvadex is an estrogen receptor blocker- it merly block estrogen at the receptor sites but doest stop the build up of the hormone... two different things bro

It would be wise to use proviron or liquidex with your deca stack. If you use nolvadex the estrogen build up will hender your gains, you dont want that.
If a first timer and you dont want huge gains then go with your winny-deca stack and use liquidex or proviron along with. I wouldn't see the need of post HPTA treatment with these anabolics. And yes the proviron will help the peter get hard.

**CutUp** · 02-19-2003, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the help Bro's.
I like what I hear about proviron so far, and it does make sense to hold off on the clen until after cycle.
I would still love more opinions on the topic, what about stretch marks?
Thanks

**CutUp** · 02-20-2003, 04:00 PM

Can anyone else give an opinion? bump please

**mmaximus25** · 02-20-2003, 05:20 PM

One thing to add is some feel that proviron and liquidex wont full control the estrogen progesterone and Bromocriptine is taken as a prolactin suppressant. dopergin is also a prolactin supressant. It may not be the first cycle that gives you gyno but later on down the road of cycling you will be greatful.
and I'll bump this for you so some other bros can offer their advice.

**mmaximus25** · 02-21-2003, 02:53 AM

Ok bro I had to hit you back first because I don’t like giving bad info.
The female sex hormones that occur are "estrogens" http://66.77.148.98/estrogen_progesterone_primer.htm --and progesterone. Estrogen is a general name of a large group of hormones. Progesterone is a secondary female sex hormone
I am currently trying to get better info from a professor how testosterone converts into estrogens. Since deca is a derivative of test I don’t see where people are saying it converts solely to progesterone or progesterone at all. In fact what I believe is happening is high amounts of free test are constant as we inject every week if not more right... well the conversion to estrogen is in constant effort also. If that conversion is being fought that’s all good and well but that doesn't stop 100% of the conversion. It can't... we as in males need estrogen to function. In some reading I've just done we convert testosterone into estrogen on a normal basis contributing to mood function in our brain. That’s not the kicker. What I'm looking into right now is I don’t think we stop progesterone from elevating due to the high Test levels with the an anti-aromatasis, I'm not done researching yet and this can't be taken as solid until I have each base covered with data but...
Why does gyno occur... because the mammary gland is trying to mature to a state of use. So the key is to find out exactly how "prolactin" http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hboo...prolactin.html --levels are raised because prolactin is the prohormone that contributes to the growth of the mammary gland during ovulation. But that’s not all... prolactin is necessary for maintenance of corpora lutea (ovarian structures that secrete ""progesterone"", the "hormone of pregnancy"). I will wait for info from this professor but I believe that we are using drug functions to combat a problem that is not fully understood. I can only research at night so anyone that can help please do. I believe now that the link to why gyno happens is in the endocrine system. We know how to suppress prolactin but I want to know what is causing the high level of production... A high level of progesterone will mean a high level of prolactin... suppress the prolactin from the pituitary and then...??? Does that lower progesterone...??? I'm not done yet, but with sleep and time were gonna figure this shit out. sorry for any mis- info I gave off the top of my head... I'm bad at that but I'm not above saying I was wrong and finding the data to back it up

**UltimateFighter** · 02-21-2003, 11:49 AM

I was the exact same build as you and I did deca alone and am now 202 pounds and cut.

**CutUp** · 02-21-2003, 12:01 PM

Thanks for clearing it up Mmax. Damn that last one was complicated...I'm going to have to read it a few more times before I can take much away from it.

UltimateFighter...you gained that much off deca alone? what was your diet/training like. My training breaks down like this...
Monday: Back Biceps Shoulders
Wed: Legs
Friday: chest triceps abs

I'm afraid of over training so I don't go everyday, how did you pull off that gain with just deca?
thanks for he help bros

**UltimateFighter** · 02-21-2003, 03:29 PM

M- chest for 60 mins W- Arms 60 mins Fri- BAck and Shoulders 60 mins
t, th legs but only 30-40 mins.

I hit 1-2 major muscles a day and let them rest for a week. My bench went up 70 pounds.

Diet was normal. Just ate a lot. Cardio daily. 20 pounds of pure muscle. no shit.

**CutUp** · 02-22-2003, 12:26 AM

Ultim. Fighter...
You just got me excited, I'm serious about my diet and training...So I'm looking forward to seeing some gains. Thanks again bros, all of you