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Thread: The young and Steroids

  1. #1
    marcus300's Avatar
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    The young and Steroids

    Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

    There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

    I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

    I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
    Marcus
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    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  2. #2
    voidofRoids is offline Junior Member
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    Great read; nice combination of a theoretical knowledge and practical experience.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Marcus.

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    great read.. im gonna copy and paste this every time a youngin asks what cycle he should do

  5. #5
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    Very good post, defiantly makes you have a think

  6. #6
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    great post as always marcus....

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    Rizdizzle is offline Junior Member
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    great post Marcus /bump to the top

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    Great post

  9. #9
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Thank-you, I hope the newbies take note and have a better understanding.
    jamalsk8 and saiyangod like this.
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    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

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    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    sound post, listen up young men!!

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    thanks Marcus! good talking points!

  12. #12
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    Agreed, looking back at when I was young and using, It was the quick fix aspect, which is probably the key of getting younger people to listen to.
    SOL!D5NAK3 likes this.

  13. #13
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    Great read but to get it through to some of these guys I think we need to shorten it, summarize it a bit because you know the attention-span of most kids is about 15 seconds or 2 sentences. LOL
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    good post marcus

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    Great read old man.lol

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    Great post, Marcus.

  17. #17
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, lets keep it bumped
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    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

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    bump

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    Bump..
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  20. #20
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    It really is a good post Marcus - but I do want to add something to it, if I may.

    We all must be cognizant of the fact that all the noobies jumping on seeking advice are going to go ahead and do the cycle regardless. With us writing back saying "you're too young; you've got too much test in your system now; you'll blow your liver early; you'll screw your HPTA up...I just don't think that's the advice that is going to get through to them.

    I'd like everyone's thoughts on whether giving this type of advice (or opinion) is actually getting through - or should we really be advising these guys on the "best" way to juice given the circumstances.

    We must remember - the great Dorian Yates started at 16. Arnie at 19 (I believe). These boys were munching 100mgs+ ED of Dbols for breakfast with absolutely no fundamental advice at all.

    We could take the approach to advise the noobs of doing smaller amounts over smaller periods instead of just flaming them and calling them dopey. They're gonna jab themselves or pop the tabs regardless.

    Let's help them instead of criticising. Let's, of course, not condone the practice for teenagers to juice - but let's not run them down. Just remember when YOU began to juice!!!

    Cheers all.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickleby View Post
    It really is a good post Marcus - but I do want to add something to it, if I may.

    We all must be cognizant of the fact that all the noobies jumping on seeking advice are going to go ahead and do the cycle regardless. With us writing back saying "you're too young; you've got too much test in your system now; you'll blow your liver early; you'll screw your HPTA up...I just don't think that's the advice that is going to get through to them.

    I'd like everyone's thoughts on whether giving this type of advice (or opinion) is actually getting through - or should we really be advising these guys on the "best" way to juice given the circumstances.

    We must remember - the great Dorian Yates started at 16. Arnie at 19 (I believe). These boys were munching 100mgs+ ED of Dbols for breakfast with absolutely no fundamental advice at all.

    We could take the approach to advise the noobs of doing smaller amounts over smaller periods instead of just flaming them and calling them dopey. They're gonna jab themselves or pop the tabs regardless.

    Let's help them instead of criticising. Let's, of course, not condone the practice for teenagers to juice - but let's not run them down. Just remember when YOU began to juice!!!

    Cheers all.
    Ive helped and stopped many teenagers from cycling, once they start to understand what I am trying to get across to them a lot start to change their minds, ive had many PM's from younger guys thanking me, so if i can help a few I will carry on doing what I feel is the best way forward for them. I have morals and principles so I wouldn't just give them the answers they require because that would go against everything I try and push onto the younger bodybuilders, it would be pointless in even trying to stop anyone if we did that.

    The thing is, there isnt a best way to cycle at their age, I give the best advice for someone with their stats end off, how can I just turn around and say you better make sure you do a good pct and you will be fine then 6 months down the line he is in the HRT forum crying because he is pissing on his hand when he goes for a piss, all because marcus told him it was safe!! there isnt a safe way at there age.

    There isn't many Arnolds/Dorians knocking around these parts, normally with many younger bodybuilders it last's the summer then dies off. The younger bodybuilders need to learn how to eat to grow first and build some kind of base instead of thinking the answer is in an injection or pill.
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    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  22. #22
    ramacher is offline Banned
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    Natural test levels

    So if you are 22 and stopped growing according to my doc, my test levels will continue to increase until I am 25. So Marcus are you still saying if you are still younger than 25 but you have stopped growing steroids will still negatively impact you?

  23. #23
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    I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.


    I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  24. #24
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    Solid posts, Marucs....

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    ramacher is offline Banned
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    agree

  26. #26
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    Im not a fan of a kid taking steroids , but I just want to say that I've seen WAY more cases of adults taking steroids and ending up on hrt than kids. I believe the bigger issue are guys that take steroids a month or two after starting to work out with no diet/idea of what they are getting into and end up doing a 16 week deca only cycle with no pct. Thats the bigger issue IMO.

  27. #27
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    bump
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    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  28. #28
    HawaiianPride.'s Avatar
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    Definitely due for a bump.

    A little rant here so bare with me...

    I have yet to reach the age of 25 (yes you read that right, I am still a baby) and even though the OP is something I have known and preached to many individuals on a daily basis, I myself experienced the sharp end of the stick and had to undergo a short treatment plan for ED earlier this year. I do know this was most definitely due to all the anabolics I had taken previously. Yes I cycled properly, yes I began at the age of 21, yes my epiphyseal plates were done growing, yes I executed proper PCT's, and yes I did get blood work done. And even still, I was victim to one of many nasty sides that can be accompanied with AAS usage for underage users. And nobody wants to experience that in their early 20's... or any age for that matter. Some of you may think I'm a prick for telling so many guys on here not to cycle yet, and just wait a bit longer But this is mainly because I know what it's like first hand to have anabolics mess things up by not starting later in life, when it could have been avoided.

    So the OP is no bullshit, and even if you are between the ages of 21 and 25, you are still risking many unwanted occurrences that may temporary or even permanently create health problems, which will in turn negatively effect everything you've worked hard for. Ask yourselves, is it really worth it? If your thinking logical, probably not..

  29. #29
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    HawaianPride, we are the same age
    Also by reading your posts before i thought you are alot older...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyka View Post
    HawaianPride, we are the same age
    Also by reading your posts before i thought you are alot older...
    Yes most people will get the assumption that I am much older. Not sure why really. Maybe my experience with training and anabolics? Shit who knows...

  31. #31
    40plusnewbie is offline Senior Member
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    It's unfortunate, but this thread could also be called 'the young and alcohol' 'the young and _____' 'the young and ______' Kids are reckless and think they are invincible. They take a lot of chances that they won't take when they get older. They act on impulse much more often than older individuals. I think it's good that they are asking questions, hopefully they listen to feedback, but at least they are asking questions, it's a start.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawaiianPride. View Post
    Yes most people will get the assumption that I am much older. Not sure why really. Maybe my experience with training and anabolics? Shit who knows...
    You come across as more mature than most 24/25 yr olds.

  33. #33
    BOBfromfightclub is offline Associate Member
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    They need to realize that its not just there testosterone levels that are changing. That is defiantly not the only risk here.

  34. #34
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    im in the infantry so you can imagine theres a good number of guys under 25 who wanna do steroids . its because of stuff like this i have changed their minds for now.

  35. #35
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    Too bad for those of us who cycled before the internet was invented.
    There was no info like this available.
    I always knew that i was to young when i used test.
    But now i suspect my current test levels being below normal ,may have been a result of my use of aas at the age of 18

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy_rocks View Post
    im in the infantry so you can imagine theres a good number of guys under 25 who wanna do steroids. its because of stuff like this i have changed their minds for now.
    I was 11 series and thats a good point and I am glad you are talking some guys out of it - especially since its a tough sell to dudes on deployment where all you can do is lift in your free time, and gear is not to not only get big but to feel like you can literally rip a bad guy's head off if you had to.

  37. #37
    arshigtx is offline Junior Member
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    Good post

  38. #38
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    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  39. #39
    marcus300's Avatar
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    bigger bump
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

  40. #40
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    2 hrs later bump

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