Consistent muscle loss.

**skitz1** · 03-02-2011, 10:54 AM

Hi there, I was just wondering if anyone could shed any light on why on my past two cycles I keep losing all of my strength and mass gains. I seem to have hit a plateau for strength and mass with cycles, and a few weeks after PCT I end up back at the same strength and weight as pre-cycle. I just can't figure out why gains are no longer sticking. I'm eating higher calories to support the added muscle mass, but still nothing.

Also, is it possible to naturally gain back the muscle mass you have put on during a cycle? I guess simply through a mammoth diet and hard training. Thanks for any advice in advance.

**Far from massive** · 03-02-2011, 11:02 AM

I do not have nearly enough knowlege to offer specific advice but I would suggest you read some of the articles on this site about how to alter diet and workouts during PCT to support the new muscle. For me incorporating them made a huge difference in retention.

**Markosterone** · 03-02-2011, 11:07 AM

I got the same problem bro! And several friends of mine to.

I think the only way to keep the gains is to cruise on testosterone , 200mg EW +/- 50mg depending on how big one wants to be.
Or to stay on a oral steroid between cycles to help keeping gains.

I always end up between 87-90 kg after about 3 months off cycle.

I think it depends alot on how much Testosterone one can produce naturally.

Thats what I think atleat...

**JohnnyVegas** · 03-02-2011, 12:30 PM

Do you continue eating enough after your cycle to maintain the new muscle?

**bjpennnn** · 03-02-2011, 01:50 PM

cruising is not the answer. You should not be losing all of your gains between cycle. A few things have to be happening. Your diet and exercise regiment changed for the bad, and you did not adjust macros to hold on to the new muscle you have. Can you truly say you are putting forth the same effort and energy after cycle as you are when you are on? Also maybe your test lvls are shot from lots of steroid use and you need to go get bloodwork done to find out if you have a problem there.

What do you run for pct and how long, what do your past cycles look like. And lets get some stats.

**marcus300** · 03-02-2011, 02:12 PM

Its very hard to state why without more information,
what are your stats?
cycle history?
how much weight have you put on since you started cycling?
what is your natural test level like?
what is your diet like?
how long do you normally have off cycle?
do you increase the calories to suit your new found muscle/mass after the cycle and do you keep this increase up?
what is your training like on cycle and off cycle in pct?

Sometimes when we get to a certain level we have use slightly different advanced techniques to springboard ourselves into further growth. I've had many a battle with my homeostasis environment but once you win the battle you will further your gains and this stage will be one of the past.

**awms** · 03-02-2011, 05:33 PM

I think it depends on cycle history. If you are naturally a 155lb, start using at 185lbs so you can get to 210lbs after a couple cycles then with proper diet you should be able to keep most of it but the body can only hold onto so much size up to a certain point...If the same guy who is naturally 155lbs and starts using at 185lbs does a few cycles and gets to 250lbs then of course the body wont be ableto hold onto all the extra size and demand you have put on it.

Look at Kevin Levrone now...once he came off the large amount of gear he was using he shrunk like crazy! now he looks like an avg person walking down the street. I have a budy who went from about 180lbs at about 5"9 to 250lbs lean in 2 years with the help of gear but once he came off he shrunk down to about 190lbs.

**skitz1** · 03-02-2011, 06:14 PM

Hi, thanks for the replies.

Stats, 5'9, 195 pounds, unsure of bodyfat I'd say around 12-13% at the moment.

Cycle history:

First cycle of Test-E/D-bol, 12 weeks, gained 15 pounds kept 10 pounds of it. Went from 180 to 190.
Second cycle: I lost about 20 pounds when I went backpacking for 6 months, so came back trained a few months and got back up to 180. Did an Anavar /Test-E/Deca cycle. Gained 20 pounds, kept 15 and ended up at 195 pounds.
Third cycle Turanabol 40mg for 8 weeks, strength was through the roof, added about 20kg's to all compound lift maxes. Weight gain 195 - 205. Lost all after 4 weeks of PCT.
Fourth cycle Turanabol 20mg for 8 weeks - Lowered the dosage as I was just after a small strength gain at this point...the strange thing is I had exactly the same gains off of 20mg of T-Bol as I did from 40mg. Even more strangely is that I hit a max bench higher from this lower dosage than the previous cycle on a higher dosage. Used exactly the same lab. Same weight gain 195-205.
Fifth cycle Exactly the same as the previous cycle, OT 20mg, 8 weeks, same weight gain, same strength, same loss after pct. Pct of Nolva 40/40/20/20 and Clomid 50/50/50/50.

I'm 26, did my first cycle at 21. I've been a student for the past five years and my diet and training have been pretty much exactly the same on cycle and off cycle.

Natural test was a lot higher when I was 21, but I feel some of that is down to age. I think perhaps getting some bloodwork done might shed some light on this.

Appreciate all the replies, thanks again.

**songdog** · 03-02-2011, 08:11 PM

You look good bro.Hope you find the answer you are looking for.

**bjpennnn** · 03-02-2011, 08:34 PM

5 9 195 is a good size man your body might not be able to go past that without staying on ya know. Maybe some hgh down the road or just slow and steady gains over the next few years.

**bjpennnn** · 03-02-2011, 08:35 PM

going to add your not running test n your last cycles i am a little confused?

**chi** · 03-02-2011, 09:01 PM

i mean your last three cycles have been turnabol? I wouldn't expect to gain much and keep from just doing a mild oral such as turnabol for three cycles and especially the low doasges your taking.

**marcus300** · 03-03-2011, 03:25 AM

Your last 3 cycle are inadequate thats plain to see by the results and gains maintained.

You also started to young, you haven't even had blood work done you may well have very low testosterone from cycling to young and when off cycle you lose all gains!

You also state that your diet as been the same on cycle and off cycle, your diet needs to increase to maintain the new found tissue every time you jump up in weight and they need to increase in PCT,

You also need to start designing cycles what will build good quality muscle, the last 3 cycles dont really come into that bracket, for your 3rd, 4th and 5th cycles they are very lame indeed,

Your areas of concern are- diet on and off cycle - bloodwork - learn how to design quality cycles - training!

**skitz1** · 03-03-2011, 06:55 AM

The reason I did a low dosage and of turanabol was because I didn't actually want to see a big mass gain. I was quite happy gain the 5-10 pounds of muscle and some strength and didn't want to put my body through the added stress of more compounds. The key thing here for me was strength.

I figured tbol at 20mg's seemed to be giving me 10 pounds of mass (which incidentally is what I retained from my first cycle of test/dbol ) and a good amount of strength without heaving to run a heavy cycle...I considered adding some Test Prop into the T-bol cycles but I though that firstly I wasn't getting any sides that were effecting my sex drive, and secondly didn't want to induce a heavy natural test shut down. I thought 20mgs of Tbol would be fairly easy to recover from.

Simply put, I was very happy with the gains I got from the T-bol, the problem is keeping them.

Thanks for the advice, it's appreciated. I'll get some bloodwork done.