Cycle Help

[Dustin4489]

Ok here are my stats: Age- 22 Weight-200 ( just came off 2 knee surgerys...lost 30 lbs bc i was out for 8 weeks...im back and cleared to work out again!!!!) Nothing is wrong with my knee either, they just had to take out some tissue...so thats really good!!! Ok here is what i have:

2 vials of 10ml of QV prop at 100mg/ml
1 vial of 50ml of QV test ethanate at 250mg/ml
2 vials of qv deca at 300mg/ml

Here is what i was thinking about doing...please critique my cycle!!
weeks 1-6 100mg of prop EOD
weeks 1-10 600mg of deca per week
weeks1-10 1,000mg of test ethanate per week
will be taking .25mg of arimidex EOD..have clomid and hcg for post cycle
was thinking about ordering some winny too for the end of my cycle to help me keep my gains...is this a good idea and should i run prop with my winny again??

[big N]

i assume this sint your firts cycle since ur runninga gram a week .u can get the winny and i would run the prop wit the winny as long as ur done with the enethate.

[Dustin4489]

would you run the prop to kick start your cycle...and use it with the winny at the end...the main reason im running winny is to help me keep my gains....and i dont want to run prop with my winny bc it will shut down my natural test levels...im gonna run the winny like 10-16

[Dustin4489]

Has anyone ever done this cycle before?

[G Child]

Originally posted by Dustin4489
the main reason im running winny is to help me keep my gains....and i dont want to run prop with my winny bc it will shut down my natural test levels...im gonna run the winny like 10-16

Nat. test levels will be shut down from week 2 on. Enan. will still be in your system till week 14 so you might as well run the prop with the winny in the end to keep your test levels up. 3 days after prop you should be ok to start clomid.

[Dustin4489]

Yeah but i was i thinking of runny winny during my post cycle therapy and even a few weeks later since it doesnt effect my natural test levels....that way i could be on winny preserving some of my gains while my natural test levels pick back up.

[big N]

dude what ru talkin about !do some reasearch winny shuts you down it does effetc the hpta bitime its liek G child said .u will be shut down no matter what !!!!!

[Dustin4489]

actually, winny does not shut you down at all.....and eq barley shuts you down too....why dont you do some research

[G Child]

Please show me the research that proposes that wintrol does not shut you down, I would love to read it.

[RON]

I'd like to see this "research" too. Let me get this straight you had 2 knee surgery's and your are cleared to go 100% in 2 months? Now you wanna run a cycle of winny which is gonna dry out your knees directly after this. Not to mention the added stress any cycle is gonna put on you joints. OK. I'm sure your knee will be fine

BTW why do you ask a question if you are already 100% sure of the answer already.

[RON]

One last thing. I don't wanna hear about your research on knees cause I've lived it.

[G Child]

See what you did? You got the damn mouse all riled up now!

[big N]

haha dustin i guess me and the rest of the memebers here dont know anything !!ur a joke bro do some research ,it does shut u down ,and eq does aswell even ox is shown to shut the hpta down i laugh at you!

[Dustin4489]

Winstrol / Stromba



Pharmaceutical Name: Stanozolol
Chemical structure: 17 alpha-methyl-5alpha- androstano [3,2-c]pyrazol-17 beta-ol
Molecular weight of base: 344.5392




Effective dose: 50-100 mg/day injection or 50-100 mg/day orally
Average Street-price: $0.30 - 1.00 per tab or $7-10 per 50mg injection
Available Doses: 2, 5 and 10 mg tabs or 50-100 mg/ml


Brands & Products:

Winthrop Winstrol Depot 50 mg/ml
Winstrol (o.c.) 50 mg/ml
Strombaject (o.c.) 50 mg/ml
Stromba 50 mg/ml
Stromba (o.c.) 50 mg/ml
Stromba (o.c.) 5 mg tabs
Stromba (B) 5 mg tabs
Winstrol 2 mg tabs
Winthrop Veterinary Winstrol V (US) 50 mg/ml
Upjohn Winstrol V (US) 50 mg/ml
Sterling Health Stromba (HU, CZ) 5 mg tabs
Ttokkyo Labs Stanol V 100 mg/ml
Stanol V 10 mg tabs
Zambon Winstrol (ES) 2 mg tabs


Characteristics:

TThis is another one of the popular ones. Next to Deca and D-bol the third most abused substance among athletes is stanozolol, as documented by the many positive drug tests. Among them the case sprinter Ben Johnson, who was stripped of his Gold Medal in the 100 meter dash in the 1988 Olympics. But since then the number of positives has grown exponentially. In bodybuilding Shawn Ray's positive in the 1990 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic (a brief stint the IFBB had with drug testing). Ray was the winner of that event, but Canadion pro Nimrod King was also shown to have stanazolol metabolites in his urine.

That short paragraph to illustrate what sort of an impact it has made on the world of sports. Stanozolol is commonly referred to as Winny, after its trade name as marketed by Winthrop : Winstrol. In Europe this may be a bit confusing as the most available form there is called Stromba. Winny comes in two forms, an injectable form and an oral form. Both are equally popular and both are to be used daily. The injections are the same compound as the orals, which is methylated. Due to this feat it can't be esterified for time-release. So its not quite suited for weekly injections although this is claimed on the package insert of the veterinary form of Winny. Another thing that would further add to the difficulty of time-release is that it is delivered in an aqueous solution. That would not exactly facilitate the entry into adipose tissue, needed for the esterification and storage of the substrate in the body.

The injectable version often gives more results. In similar doses there is still more breakdown upon first pass in the liver, making it difficult to get an equal amount absorbed. And on top of that it has to be mentioned that most people simply don't take an equal amount. Too many pills, lesser availability, higher cost. Many factors play a role in that. But of course an oral is to be preferred over daily injections as that gives the necessary complications as well. Think of abscesses and lumps, the searching for new injection sites due to pain and so on. Some have solved this problem by simply drinking the Winny injections. It's the same substance, also methylated to withstand the liver, the availability and price are better and its contained in water. So there really aren't many objections to this.

Of course because they are the same substance, regardless of the method of use, its not advised to use Winny for long periods of time. Slightly less hepatoxic than most 17-alpha alkylated substrates, so it can be used a bit longer, as long as 8 weeks, but longer than that is not wise. Elevation of liver values is quite common.

The specificity of Winny however, lies in how it counteracts estrogenic side-effects such as gyno and excess water retention. First of all it's a 5-alpha reduced substrate. 5-alpha reduction breaks the double bond between positions 4 and 5, which is required for conversion to estrogen via aromatase, the primary enzyme for the manufacture of estrogen in males. Because some of these compounds nonetheless show some affinity for aromatase they may have some use in blocking estrogen from other steroids they are stacked with. Wether or not Winny acts in this way is not entirely sure. What has been a popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid of Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects. Now, progesterone can aggravate estrogenic side-effects by agonizing estrogen and it does play a role in gyno.

We also discussed that certain steroids may indeed stimulate and act at the height of the progesterone receptor including nandrolone and Norethandrolone. These hormones are also altered by it inducing a decrease in libido and a sense of lethargy and such, and eventhough they aromatize in lesser rates than some other steroids, they show an equal capability to cause estrogenic side-effects, particularly when stacked with other aromatizable compounds. Now there is evidence that Winny does indeed bind to the progesterone receptor1 and its users do not indicate the normal characteristics of progesterone stimulation, which bodes well for these anti-progestagenic properties. There is also some clinical data that it does aid in symptoms that require progesterone suppression2. Much in the way danazol was also successfully used. The one thing we shouldn't lose sight of however is in what rate it binds to the progesterone reception. There is no data on this. For all we know it couldn't bind strong enough to compete with nandrolone or norethandrolone. So its not wise to state that Winny is an anti-progestagin per se, but it does make Winny a good match for these products in stacks in any case.

Strong gains are never really made while using stanozolol (it's a weak androgen since it has no 3-keto group needed for androgen binding), but decent and fairly easy to maintain gains are possible. Its limited time of use however makes most experienced users opt for other steroids in that regard. Winny, in bodybuilding circles at least, is used mostly during cutting cycles to maintain mass. Winstrol, like a DHT compound also gives a distinct increase in muscle hardness and striations in people with a low body-fat percentage. This lends further credence that it too may be a an anti-estrogen. But most likely it has more to do with the overall lower levels of circulating estrogen. Winny is also quite effective at promoting strength because it binds very well at the androgen receptor. Short term stanozolol use can promote drastic strength, a feat often employed early in a bulking cycle (although d-bol would be more suited in that case) or late in a cutting cycle to prevent a decrease in performance. This combined with the red blood cell count-stimulating properties of its androgen affinity make it popular among track athletes as well in order to beget better results. As many, including Ben Johnson, did not take into account it can be detected for quite some time after last use so its not advisable for drug tested athletes. Many have assumed otherwise due to the short half-life, but apparently some inactive metabolites are easily esterified, so they can be found up to 5 months after the last injection.

Winny is mostly quite well-tolerated in men. Cramps, headaches, elevated blood pressure and cholesterol levels and liver damage are noted, but on a not so-frequent basis. Standard virilization symptoms associated with the stimulating of the androgen receptor, however, are a problem. Acne, prostate hypertrophy and an aggravation of male pattern baldness can occur, so use by women has to be discouraged.

Due to the frequent rate of injections, users generally have to go spotting for different sites of injection on the body. Calves, shoulders, arms and such. When doing so they noted a localized increase in mass which has given root to the myth that Winny can add muscle where it is injected. What I'm about to say goes for all compounds known to date : Steroids do not increase mass locally. The observance is noted because the injection breaks the fascia around the muscle, which possibly gives a muscle a little more room to grow. This is mostly temporary, and in the best cases very limited. Multiple injections would not increase the size in comparison. When the fascia heals, if it heals, it can lead to something called compartments syndrome, where a nerve is pinched between a muscle and its fascia. Leading to numbness quite often and in some cases to a paralysis of everything that nerve controls. This is not a frequent occurrence. This is rare, but my point was documenting that localized growth spurred by an injection is a myth.

A last note about injectable Winny is : shake before use. Its called an aqueous solution, but the Winny being a steroid is not particularly polar, meaning it doesn't dissolve in the water. When the stuff sits, it will accumulate at the bottom of the vial. A good way to recognize the real stuff as well. So shake before you draw it into a syringe or mix it before you drink it, and perhaps even stir it again once in the syringe prior to injection.

Stacking and Use:

Winstrol is best used at a rate of 50 mg a day. When in an injection that amounts to a single injection every day around the same time. In orals, that'll be at least 5 tabs of a legit product.

In a mass stack Winny makes a good match for Deca and Nilevar . Whether or not its anti-progestagenic effects are for real or not, lets just say it can't hurt. In any stack with Deca the use of 25-50 mg a day for the first 6-8 weeks of the stack can kickstart it and add some strength. With Nilevar there is a practical objection because it is also 17-alpha alkylated and more toxic than Winny, so your stack would be limited to 6 weeks, which is not overly productive.



The pink ones are Anabol (Dianabol ) and the yellow ones are Stanabol (Winstrol). These are very popular right now. They are 5 mg tabs and they sell for less than 30 cents a tab.
For cutting purposes Boldenone , Masteron and trenbolone are the best options. If you are employing a longer stack, then use 25-50 mg of Winny for 6 weeks or so at the end of the stack. Boldenone is the best match here as the other two do basically the same thing. They act solely or mostly at the androgen receptor. Making them poorer choices since simply upping the dose of Winny would mostly achieve similar results. Of course neither is methylated, which allows for longer use.

There is no need for an anti-estrogen as Winny may have such a property of its own and does not aromatize at any rate. The only counter-indication with Winny would perhaps be an anti-hypertensive if you use for a longer stack. Be sure to get liver values checked if you use for longer than 6 weeks on end. There is no real use for Clomid or Nolva post-cycle for Winny specifically since there is no post-cycle aromatisation to cause negative feedback. That makes whatever gains you made on Winny quite easy to maintain.
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RE-READ THAT LAST PARAGRAPH!!! Winny doesnt aromotize!!! there for it doesnt cause a negative feedback to your brain...there for it wont shut your natural test level down!! Thank you very much!!

[RON]

I've read that before I believe it was written by big cat over at BB.com. He is a very smart bro but I am not sure of what medical studies he got that information at. While he might be right he goes against the grain on a few subjects. I believe he also recommends nolva post cycle instead of clomid. So believe what you want I'll still recommend clomid post winny. I'm not saying Big Cat is wrong (he's the smartest guy on that board and the only reason to visit it) but untill I see evidence of this I'm not gonna buy it.

[Dustin4489]

Good point Ron. I am going to try my idea this cycle. I will let you know what happens. Thanks for all the info!! Oh yeah and is prop really good as shit as everyone makes it sound? This will be my first time using it!