Serious shit here!!!!!!!! Need experts advise!!!!

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 01:31 PM

What's up guys and gals? I know this might sound weird but here it goes: My grandpa is 80 years old and about 4 months ago was diagnosed with cancer. He has taken every test out there and even went through kimo therapy (which just ended today) .

Well, my dad( 1 of my grandaps 8 kids) found out today that his dad has anywheres from 1 month to 2 years tops to live. His cancer started with a tumor in his neck and that got better with the kimo and drugs, but now it is spreading and it is in his spine now.

My grandpa went from running his water well drilling buisness this summer and trimming most if not all of his 1200 trees that he has on his beautiful farm in North Dakota to having one hell of a time just walking.

So now I will get to the point. I was asked by the family ( since I am the most knowledgable one in the family about this sort of thing) if there is anything I am aware of that can make a person stronger and I was like yea obviously there is STEROIDS , but shit I don't know about an 80 year old man. I said as far as I am aware of ( acting if is were dumb about that sort of thing ) Only pleople in there 20's, 30s and maybe even people in there 40's take it but, 80's shit I just don't know. So I gave all the steroid names that I figured would help with weight and strength gain to my dad which ended up showing them to the doc today right after the doc told him about the short time his dad has to live. Well, the doc said shit any one of those would help him, he said 30 years ago that is all we would give to out patients in this situation. BTW, my dad said "this doc was sharp"!

Ok so, this is where I need some advise, My grandpa has a healthy liver and kidneys SOOOOOOOOO, what steroids would you recommend?

O BTW, My dad and his brothers and sisters are all up for this so, it is going to be done with or without help! SO, I would appreciate just the positives and negatives of this idea and pros and cons of these certain steroids, NO bashing!!!! BTW, I can get any steroid out there so please, please help!!!!!

I am 22 years old and have done 3 cycles, and the best cycle I went on was the YODA cycle ( BTW, I was the one that started the the whole Yoda cycle thing!) So, I have been around for awhile but just haven't dealt directly with it lately, so I am a little rusty! NEED HELP!

1-4 d-bol - not sure on dosage and scared about the liver?????? ( plan on taking tests every week for liver values but still not sure!!)
1-10 test - not sure on how many mg's to give an 80 year old man????
1-10 deca , primobolan , or EQ - not sure on the dosage??????
clomid at the end of the cycle

P.S. Money is not an issue!!!!!!

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 01:57 PM

bump

**The Butcher** · 03-14-2003, 02:07 PM

Sorry to hear about your gandpa. Cancer is a miserable thing not only for the person who has it, but for those who love that person as well. It's really pretty hard to grasp how horrible cancer is unless you have seen it up close and personal, be it from having it yourself, or losing a loved one because of it. So, once again, sorry to hear about it.

I'll give you my .02, but I feel like getting final approval or at least an opinion from a doc would be VERY wise in this situation. In all honesty, in this situation you have nowhere to go but up. Meaning, I don't think you can do much to make his situation worse, so as the doc said, this is what they would do in most every case 30 years ago and it should be ok for him to do. So, juice away! (sort of kidding, but not totally)

I would think that giving him 200-400mg/week of test (cyp or enan) would be a good start. I'm not so sure that you would even really need to cycle it. I'm not trying to be insensitive here (quite the contrary actually), but it's not really going to matter if he stays on the test (especially if it is @ HRT levels) for the remainder of his life. You might want to cycle up and down between 200mg and 400mg/week just to give his body a break once in awhile, or if he has aromatization problems, or BP problems. Other than that I would say just stay on for the rest of his life (especially if it is going to be as unfortunately short as the docs have diagnosed). I would stay away from things like D-bol b/c I would think he might be more prone to bloat/water retention and thus higher BP which he certainly doesn't need.

Most of the time Docs have steroids they use for increasing appetite, so ask about those from the doc. You could always use Eq for this, but you obviously won't get a thumbs up from a doc for using animal juice for your grandpa. But, as most on this board feel, Eq is great for increasing appetite. And, loss of appetite is often one of the biggest problems in cancer patients. Nobody wants to eat when they feel sick to their stomach. Then they just get weaker b/c they don't eat. It's a downward spiral from there.

Primobolan might be a good option for him as well, but since it's tough to get legit Primos these days, I would stick with the things that you know are real. In your grandpa's situation, you don't really have the time to waste with bunk gear. It's an inconvenience and a loss of money and time for us, but it means a big difference in the quality of life for your grandfather.

The other thing you will want to consider is the sterility/cleanliness of the products you are going to be getting. Most of us can battle off a little infection here and there (and if any of you have had a reaction to a shot and not gotten an abcess, you can thank your immune system), but an infection is the last thing a cancer patient needs. Kimo and all of the other shit they give cancer patients beats the crap out of your body, and your immune system is highly compromised b/c of things like that. For that reason, I would recommend that you use human grade drugs. (so yes, that would rule out Eq, but it's pretty rare people have problems with Eq in terms of infections so it might not be too much of a risk). You can get both test enan and primobolan in Mx pharmacies, or just have the doc prescribe him American cyp that you can pick up from Walgreens. His insurance should even cover this, and he will probably only have to pay $15.00 for each bottle. (wow, if only...)

I hope this helps you out a bit. I think that the three options (stacked together, or seperate) would be your best options. Deca would probably work as well. I would think that you should probably keep his total mg dose under 600-700mg/week if stacking two of them together. If you are going to use the test alone, I don't think I would go over 400mg/week and I would probably err on the side of caution and maybe use 200-300mg/week. Best of luck. Hopefully he'll be able to get back out there and trim those trees this summer!

**Iron horse** · 03-14-2003, 02:16 PM

in my opinion, low dose of primo and/or testosterone .

say 200mgs of each a week, that would achieve miracle for an 80 year old IMO.

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 02:32 PM

wow, Butcher! I really appreciate your reply! It obvioulsy looks like you spent some time on it. It really means alot!!!!! Man just thinking about this whole situation is making my eyes water. Well, thanks for all the advise!

BTW, I agree with you about the not needing cycle this stuff

Well, I can deffinently get real primobolan so now my question is primo or deca . Or shit how about both?????

Here is what I am leaning towards:

1-3 d-bol - 35mgs/d ( for a kick start and strength gain )
1-4 test prop - 100mgs/eod (for a kick start on test)
1-X test - 400mgs/w ( strength gain )
1-X deca- - 400mgs/w ( joints, strength gain, weight gain)

so now a few questions:

d-bol or no? I know about the bloat but I know when I took d-bol I had great strength gains, so........

sust, enthanate or cyp?

what about HGH?????

Ok, thats enough for now!

Once again, Thanks Buther!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

later, devistate

**hybrid** · 03-14-2003, 02:33 PM

bro, your grandpa's sharp doc will prescribe this stuff won't he? unless he would get in trouble for the high doses, that kind of thing. or he doesn't want to be on the hook if something goes goofy? i would think that getting the primo human grade stuff from a doc would definintely be the way to go. good luck.

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 02:33 PM

Thanks Iron Horse!!!

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 02:45 PM

well, hybrid, you got a great question there and I am trying to get that figured out right now. 1st I thought maybe the answer to the question was if something goofy happens, but now that I hear that docs can perscibe primobolan I don't know what to think. Ok, just got the answer, the doc that told my dad that it was a good idea, was the one that was reading the tests and is not one to prescibe anything so, the doc said we should have no problem having my grandpa's real doc prescibe these.

So does anyone know what kind of steroids a real doc can prescibe?

Thanks hybrid!

**Iron horse** · 03-14-2003, 02:55 PM

I woldnt give me a bodybuilders cycle, stick with low doses, no to the dbol IMO. test and primo or deca are best probably.

docter can prescribe, i BELIEVE: testosterone , deca, primobolan ,
halo(i think)

ie: test 200mgs/ primo & deca 200-300mgs - thats tops!

if his joints are sore he might benefit from deca's lubing effect. Keep us updated, good luck, and make sure he's having some fun

one more thing, enth or cyp, not sust

**Iron horse** · 03-14-2003, 03:01 PM

lol, Dick's pretty convincing,

even at low doses, the things you are talking about could probably occur?

**steve1** · 03-14-2003, 03:01 PM

OK buddy

I think the strongest test would do good in this situation,and to be honest i woudlnt worry about sides like gyno or bloateing after all your just trying to extend life,pure test is youthful exuberence.

But there may be somthing stronger they can prescribe as well i am not sure, dont know if HGH would suit this senerio either.

**The Butcher** · 03-14-2003, 03:03 PM

No D-bol. Prop isn't even needed. You don't need to kickstart this. I think Iron Horse's idea of 200mg/test and 200mg/primo per week is probably pretty good. That would do "miracles" for an 80 year old. Deca would be the other option instead of the Primo, and this can be gotten in US pharmacies as well. I think most docs would feel fairly comfortable prescribing the doses discussed above as well.

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 03:11 PM

Ok, Iron Horse! I am going to do what you suggest. No d-bol and low dosages!

And dick, I hear what you are saying, and I can not answer all your questions, which really upsets me, I am goin to get all that figured out and respond with all the info. And, Don't take this as a diss but if a doc from the mayo clinic said that it is pretty much the only way to go, THAT IS THE WAY WE ARE GOING TO GO! And not knowing for sure but I have to think the doc thought about all of those things like blood clots and infections before he said "yes, go for it". BTW, I don't know where you get the "1-2 month prognosis thing" I wrote he was diagnosed with cancer 4 months ago. Plus he has been getting worse by the week. He started having problems about 6 months ago. But, anyways I respect your opinon but hey a doctor at probably the most prestigious hospital in the world says go for it, you just have to do it.

later, devistate

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 03:12 PM

back in an hour, thanks for all the replies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**The Butcher** · 03-14-2003, 03:19 PM

Shut up Dick! Your not a Doctor!!!!!!

Just kidding. As I said in my original post, get this ok'd by a doc first. Steroids are often prescribed to cancer patients, but perhaps the doses we are talking about aren't even appropriate. I would certainly say that if he has degenerated into a state in which it is very difficult to walk, then it isn't too early to start thinking about aas. But again, check with a medicl professional first. Or, several of them if need be. Several opinions are better than one.

**Madmax** · 03-14-2003, 03:35 PM

bro, i am with dick on this....he beet me to the punch but what he said is correct...your body cannot heal itself as good on juice...and his immune system will not be as strong...so he will have problems fighting off infections, which could lead to a potential earlier death...high blood prussure is also a problem...

unless the doctor reccomends it, i would not put your grandfather through the extra stress bro.....Madmax...

**Madmax** · 03-14-2003, 03:45 PM

i still dont think placebo effect will have that much difference, if that was the case i would give him other cancer medicine such as kytril or lukovorin...or even a morphine patch...steroids may have a negative impact on him....theres alot of things steroids effect bro and at 80 you really dont know if its helping or hurting him....

cancer is a bad disease he will have his good days and bad, at his age i would suggest just to try to live out his life as best he can....sorry to hear about your family bro...Madmax...

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 04:10 PM

Well guys, I really appreciate all of your concerns and opinions.

I guess I won't know to much more untill Monday unless he can get in to see his doc this weekend.

Well, thanks again and I will be stopping back to check the replies and to let you guys know what we have decided to do.

So far this is what I am going to suggest to his doc: test enthante at 200mgs/week, primobolan 200mgs/week. And I will probably go up to 300mgs and on both after a few weeks but I guess I will see what the doc has to say about the dosages we came up with.

Later, Devistate

**BIG-G** · 03-14-2003, 04:52 PM

i'm in agreement with madmax. steroids probably won't help at all and the risk/benefit ratio sucks. stick with narcotics like max said. good luck with your grandpa.

dick

**m16a2** · 03-14-2003, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by steve1
OK buddy

I think the strongest test would do good in this situation,and to be honest i woudlnt worry about sides like gyno or bloateing after all your just trying to extend life,pure test is youthful exuberence.

But there may be somthing stronger they can prescribe as well i am not sure, dont know if HGH would suit this senerio either.

You must be really rusty in your knowledge. HGH would be horrible in this situation as it promotes the growth of tumors.

**GDawg** · 03-14-2003, 07:35 PM

All I Know is dont uses HGH,, Good luck

**Iron horse** · 03-14-2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Madmax
bro, i am with dick on this....he beet me to the punch but what he said is correct...your body cannot heal itself as good on juice...and his immune system will not be as strong...so he will have problems fighting off infections, which could lead to a potential earlier death...high blood prussure is also a problem...

I was thinking this at first, but then he said a doc recommended HRT, so i suggested what i thought would might be a good idea. anyway, I thought about that, but i figured as long as he didnt get the flu or a bad cold he'd be ok, if he doesnt have much time left.. since he'd want to feel the best he possibly could right now i imagine.

risk:reward

not my call, the doc will make the final decision

**Doc M** · 03-14-2003, 08:35 PM

Well, my dad( 1 of my grandaps 8 kids) found out today that his dad has anywheres from 1 month to 2 years tops to live. His cancer started with a tumor in his neck and that got better with the kimo and drugs, but now it is spreading and it is in his spine now.

Devistate,

I am certainly sorry to hear about your grandfather. An illness such as this is always difficult on the patient and family.

I do want to input a medical opinion on this however. The Doctor gave him anywhere from 1 month to 2 years to live which is just a way of him covering himself. Generally Doctors do not like to give predictions of time, especially when it comes to terminal illness. It provides a false hope and often added stress for the family. I would never tell a patient that they only had a certain amount of time to live, I think it is a bit reckless since only God can make the decision of when it is time to go.

I persoanlly would not treat a terminal patient with steroids unless I was certain he could take the risks involved. Steroids obviously have positive effects, but they also come with too many variables all of which your grandfather can not afford to take. Bloodpressure, clotting problems, adverse reactions, etc.. All of these are possibilites and he is so fragile I don't think it's worth the risk. But, if he and your family want to go for it, than I say goodluck to you all. Often cancers that are progressing into bone matter are generally very aggressive and treatments don't have a lot of effect. I would concentrate my efforts on making his last moments here as comfortable and happy ones.

I don't want to sound pessimistic or negative, I just wanted to give another opinion from a medical standpoint. Good luck and Godbless your entire family!!

Doc M

**Rickson** · 03-14-2003, 08:56 PM

I am afraid I am with the other guys on this one. There maybe other drugs besides AAS that will help but I think the risk to reward ratio of Steroids is poor in this instance. I wish him well but would get several opinions before I went forward with this treatment. I know you only want what is best for your grandfather and my thoughts are with you.

**devistate** · 03-14-2003, 10:57 PM

Thanks again guys and I think Iron Horse hit it right on the nose "the doc will have the fianal decison" I will keep up on this to let you all know what we have decided to do and how our decsion is effecting him.

Later, Devistate

**pcity** · 03-14-2003, 11:23 PM

Good luck with everything bro!!!!!

**BIG-G** · 03-15-2003, 03:22 AM

sorry for the screw ups on the replies, dick was under his name on my comp and i posed a reply. Good luck with ur situation bro.

**Warrior** · 03-15-2003, 03:45 AM

Here is an abstract (one of many on this issue - most using Testosterone Enanthate , TE) in regards to AAS therapy for weight loss associated with disease: Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Therapy in the Treatment of Chronic Diseases - there are many abstracts to search through and bring to your doc's attention if somehting look promissing for him.

BTW - IMO - DO NOT administer this type of treatment to him without proper medical supervision - HRT can be recommended to the doc and not something done without their knowledge... he has a much more sensitive system than a healthy younger adult.

**Greatful_Dead_Head** · 03-16-2003, 08:22 AM

the only steroids they might try are decadron or prednisone. these reduce inflamation and increase appetite some. i work in an oncology deot at a large hospital that doesn't have hospice and treats each patient until they either succumb to their disease or are moved to another hospital. Did he have CHOP or ICE chemo, and what are his counts like? things to watch out for are like Dickrenegade said, clots, infection, etc. If it's terminal treat him for comfort and enjoy him and his time. i'm very sorry to hear about your loss, but don't mourn him yet. death is a part of our life, a rebirth to things we can't even dream about. Best of luck.