D-bol cycle

[BASK8KACE]

Stats: 175lbs, 5'-6", (not sure when I will actually run this one. I'm just planning now.)

Proposed cycle I (hypothetical discussion cycle)
15 Weeks:
400mg testosterone cyp ew
10-20mg dbol per day

or

Proposed cycle II (hypothetical discussion cycle)
15 weeks:
400mg testosterone cyp ew
10-20 dbol per day
100-200mg deca per week

I've been doing a lot of reading lately on D-bol and have a few questions because there are several different views:

--Has anyone run D-bol for more than 6 weeks? What doses did you run, and what were your results?

--I've heard people say that diet is not as much an issue on D-bol as it is with deca. Is this true? (my diet's fine--I just want to hear more about this).

--I'm thinking about future cycles for myself, 250-400mg per week of test will be my base. If I add d-bol, do you recommend that I run it with deca? Or will the cycle be just as effective with just test?

I'm concerned about running dbol for such a long time. I'm (of course) leaning toward using only 10mg of dbol if I run it for that long.

[Lift Chief]

You shouldn't run dbol more than 6 weeks because of liver-toxicity issues as i'm sure you know. If you decide to run it longer i would really not run it more than 10 weeks if i were you. And if you decide to chance your health by going to even 10 weeks you should get bloodwork done in the middle of the cycle to check on things and load up on milk thistle, ala, etc.

[Lift Chief]

Dbol is really best for kick-starting a cycle... i'd run it at a higher dose at the start- but run it for 4-5 weeks.

[BASK8KACE]

Thanks.

Yes, I do know about the liver toxicity. I wanted to find out if anyone has run it at lower doses for a longer time without complication.

The cycles I've posted are for discussion as I plan later cycles. I'm not sure If I would ever run D-bol for a long time because of the risk

[Lift Chief]

Originally posted by BASK8KACE
Thanks.

Yes, I do know about the liver toxicity. I wanted to find out if anyone has run it at lower doses for a longer time without complication.

The cycles I've posted are for discussion as I plan later cycles. I'm not sure If I would ever run D-bol for a long time because of the risk

Ok- yeah i know you know your stuff so i was surprised to see you suggesting this. But i see it was just a hypothetical situation.

[BASK8KACE]

Yeah, I'm gonna edit so it's obvious that it's hypothetical.

[dizzle]

Many people run dbol at a low dosage of 10mg in the AM for a bridge for 3 months. I guess it would be the same thing.

[Diesel]

I think you would be fine at a low does of Dbol for that length of time.

I don't know if he is ever around anymore but I know Bouncer use to run dbol for 10-15 weeks.

D

[BASK8KACE]

Thanks for the replies, bros.

Dizzle,
I did a bit more research and found this about D-Bol bridges @ 10mg and why it should be taken in the AM (posted by bigjim33--moderator at FitnessGeared.com):

dbol bridge explained....
stole from doom at MM.......

Written by Fonz from EF
This is a good read on dbol bridgeing from Fonz should answer alot of your questions.

D-bol Bridge Explained by Fonz
I've been reading some of the posts regarding this
bridge and some of them are truly from left-field.
First of, this is a BRIDGE. OK? a B-R-I-D-G-E.

Your LH function and Test levels are supposed
to RECOVER.

Ok, now having said that.
Here's the pharmo-kinetics behind Methandrostenelone,
brand name Dianabol .

10mg taken at once will increase your average testosterone level by 5 times and decrease your endogeneous cosrtisone
by 50-70%.

The reason why dianabol is a good choice for a bridge is that
its VERY anti-catabolic. It also dopaminergic. Giving you the
benefits of increased CNS strength modulation by
its androgenic mode of action.
Androgens, in case you don't know, increase neuro-muscular
function, thus STRENGTH.

OK. Now, lets delve into the metabolic chemistry behind
dianabol's choice as a bridging agent.

When are testosterone levels highest?

Answer: In the AM, thats when.

Your body releases a tesosterone spike in the morning.
This is when tesosterone levels are highest.

When are Insulin levels lowest?

Answer: In the AM thats when.

Low insulin levels=increased <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> used as fuel.
(Also fat, but <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> is also being converted
to glucose via glucogenesis)

OK, here is where dball's short half-life works for us
(Its 3.2-4.5 hrs btw)

Lets take Subject X.

He's in bridging mode.
He has just woken up.
The body is about to release tesosterone, thus
creating a spike.
His insulin levels are low.
His LH and test levels are very low.

He pops 10mgs of dianabol.

Here is where things get interesting.

The 10mgs of dianabol will cause a testosterone
spike WHICH COINCIDES WITH the testosterone
released ENDOGENEOUSLY in the AM by the testes.

The body will be partially fooled.
It will not entirely detect the increased levels of testosterone
(above the normal test sipke), thus LH function WILL
REMAIN only partially(Very little actually) suppressed.

In other words, he is "piggy-backing" an extra dose of testosterone on top of the endogeneously reduced one,
thus creating an "inflated" test spike.

Henceforth, LH levels WILL BE ALLOWED TO SLOWLY
RECOVER over time.
Also, dballs anti-catabolic effect will help curb <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>-loss
in the morning from low insulogenic levels.

HOWEVER, and here is where almost all of you go wrong.

You CANNOT GO PAST 10mg of dianabol in the AM
for this bridge to work!!!!

Why? Because of the blood levels of dianabol you would generate.

10mg in the AM will be broken down to 5mg in about 4 hrs
(Probably less)

5mg of dianabol, is not enough to cause another rise
in testosterone levels after the precceeding one. Thus,
LH function is allowed to up-regulate.

Anything more(Say 20mgs), will cause a SEDCONDARY
testosterone spike which WILL inhibit LH function further,
thus not allowing LH function to recover.

Oh yeah...100mgs? ROTLMFAO!! Fat chance.

The difference between 20mgs and 10mgs means the difference
between allowing LH to recover slowly and not allowing it to.

So, here's the scenario summed up:

Beginning: LOW LH and test.

Adding the 10mgs dball.

LH is allowed to SLOWLY RECOVER over time as
testosterone levels are kept at a level which
will not cause muscle-loss. Also, dball's anti-catabolic effects
will reduce <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> degradation.(Via cortisone
reduction)

This is what i call a double positive. You have managed to
INCREASE anabolism(Test levels) and DECREASE
catabolism(cortisone), during a bridge to boot!!

The bridge should last 8 weeks, NO LESS.
I also have to say, that it WILL NOT restore
complete LH function. It'll get you 80-90%
of the way there but the only way you're going
to get your full LH function back is if you go OFF
completely.
Anavar WILL NOT restore LH completely either btw.
(In case anybody is wondering.)
The difference is that with anavar you can take it
throughout the day and with dball it HAS TO BE
once in the AM.

Hope that clears the air.

Fonz

[BASK8KACE]

I also found this info posted by Mark_B, which contradicts the above:

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ironman350
Your LH function and Test levels are supposed
to RECOVER.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That sort of keeps us from bridging doesn't it ? Good way to start the post, if people remember anything from this I hope its that phrase.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason why dianabol is a good choice for a bridge is that
its VERY anti-catabolic. It also dopaminergic. Giving you the
benefits of increased CNS strength modulation by
its androgenic mode of action.
Androgens, in case you don know, increase neuro-muscular
function, thus STRENGTH.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Perhaps he needs to brush up on his pharmacokinetics, as methandienone is actually one of the poorest androgens among common AAS.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When are testosterone levels highest?

Answer: In the AM, thats when.

Your body releases a tesosterone spike in the morning.
This is when tesosterone levels are highest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Wrong, endocrinology, first year. Levels of LH peak in the early hours of sleep.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When are Insulin levels lowest?

Answer: In the AM thats when.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



With the combined peak elevation of cholesterol in early morning and being 8 hours removed from your last meal will do that to you. No surprise there. Wish to solve this ? Eat ...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Low insulin levels=increased protein used as fuel.
(Also fat, but protein is also being converted
to glucose via glucogenesis)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Exactly, low inulin and high cortisol will work catabolic, hence the reasoning for doing your cardio in the morning, since you are already in fatburning mode.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 10mgs of dianabol will cause a testosterone
spike WHICH COINCIDES WITH the testosterone
released ENDOGENEOUSLY in the AM by the testes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



First of all methandienone is its own steroid and has little to do with testosterone. Its closest endogenous metabolite is boldenone . And it does neither coincide nor support endogenous release thereof either. I'd like to know where this guy is getting this from.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The body will be partially fooled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well HIS body anyway, if its as dumb as the rest of him ...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It will not entirely detect the increased levels of testosterone
(above the normal test sipke), thus LH function WILL
REMAIN only partially(Very little actually) suppressed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Someone please explain this fool the lengthy receptor times of 17AA steroids and the fact that the increase in 17-alpha-methylestradiol will DEFINITELY shut down endogenous test in a short amount of time.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henceforth, LH levels WILL BE ALLOWED TO SLOWLY
RECOVER over time.
Also, dbols anti-catabolic effect will help curb protein-loss
in the morning from low insulogenic levels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I hope for his sake he wasn't dumb enough to take his own advice ...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOWEVER, and here is where almost all of you go wrong.

You CANNOT GO PAST 10mg of dianabol in the AM
for this bridge to work!!!!

Why? Because of the blood levels of dianabol you would generate.

10mg in the AM will be broken down to 5mg in about 4 hrs
(Probably less)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Actually endogenous production will not be allowed to be restored til a shortage of sex steroids is noted, androgenic and estrogenic. Since a single tab of Dbol already exceeds that by a factor of 3 or 4, there is a MAJOR flaw in this theory.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5mg of dianabol, is not enough to cause another rise
in testosterone levels after the precceeding one. Thus,
LH function is allowed to up-regulate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dianabol does not create a rise in testosterone ...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
more(Say 20mgs), will cause a SEDCONDARY
testosterone spike which WILL inhibit LH function further,
thus not allowing LH function to recover.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So you are coming of a cycle, levels of androgens drop and your endogenous levels of androgens decline, causing a rebound of estrogen. Instead of coming of properly, supressing that estrogen, you are adding a metabolite that has been shown to be more estrogenic than androgenic, in a dose that is too small to cause any anabolic action, yet high enough to FURTHER supress your natural levels of test.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The difference between 20mgs and 10mgs means the difference
between allowing LH to recover slowly and not allowing it to.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Actually its the difference between not allowing LH to recover and not allowing LH to recover.

I'm not going to comment anymore, I'm getting enraged and I feel dumber for acknowledging this by reading and responding ..."

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...t=dbol+bridging

I think BigCat points out alot of good stuff.