ANYONE else lose there gains from FINA

**PHATCAT** · 04-03-2003, 12:36 AM

This shit was awsome as far as results for strength and size but I have lost all my weight gained from cycle feelin lean but only 2 wks and lost weight gained????

My diet is very good. but I did start to drop carbs to 100g per day right after cycle ended. this probabley is the reason I lost weight but my calories and protein are still up there. 4000 cal and 500 Pro...... ANY THOUGHTS OR similar results?????

**Warrior** · 04-03-2003, 12:53 AM

Look at your post cycle recovery plan and your current training split as the reason for losing what you had.

I just did my first Tren cycle - Tren/Prop followed by Tren/Win with very good results and my weight and strength has stayed the same... currently 2 weeks off... seem to be making a very good recovery and looking to get back on a gaining curve in a few weeks - rather than maintenance. And I have been doing the same split, w/cardio I was doing while on... so the results seem to be pretty permenent 4 me...

BTW - I also ran Clomid 50mg ED for the last 5 weeks while on - and then a normal post cycle Clomid as well. I think this was very helpful - especially when coming off trenbolone .

Dropping your daily carbs to 100 grams per day will drop water weight fast. What was the stack - or was it Tren only? Did you keep the strength - just not the size? Do you think you made any progress with the androgen?

**PHATCAT** · 04-03-2003, 10:36 AM

Yes I did The TREN alone to see how my body would react to it. I will have to keep that in mind for the next cycle, starting the clomid much earlier. Im taking 100mgs every day, for the past 2wks started right after the end of the tren. My Strength is still up but I can feel it slipping espesially As I lower the carbs. I expected some loss due to lowering the carbs but all 10lbs in 2 wks. This has thrown me a bit, Probably psycollogically also. Im not sure what you mean by SPLIT.

**monstercojones** · 04-03-2003, 02:05 PM

that seems odd that you lost so much... it sucks, sorry bro. i was of the opinion that tren gains were pretty easily maintained.

**Lift Chief** · 04-03-2003, 02:14 PM

If anything you need to eat MORE when you start post cycle recovery... you lost your gains because you dropped your cabs too much... not a good idea. Up your carbs untiul you feel like you have mostly recovered-probably in a few weeks. Then, and only then, should you lower your carbs.

**PHATCAT** · 04-03-2003, 02:31 PM

Yes I geuss I just jumped the gun! I was just kinda lookin towards starting to lean down summers around the corner! But I thought my large intake of calories and Protein would have done the Job! well lesson learned I suppose, lookin for the positive in the situation! Thanks GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!! The strength and size is still pretty decent hopefully those dont deminish any more, but the weight was what through me off!!!!

**PHATCAT** · 04-03-2003, 02:33 PM

Oh and I still give TREN a big BUMP! I achevied a goal that Ive never obtained before 4 PLATES!!!!!!

**PHATCAT** · 04-04-2003, 01:04 PM

Bump

G-S · 04-04-2003, 03:55 PM

I've always had a hard time hanging onto the fina gains, especially in the strength department.

**PHATCAT** · 04-04-2003, 05:31 PM

GS did it make any difference what you did with your carb intake. my strength is not gone but slipping a litttle as I lose the carbs for cutting.

G-S · 04-05-2003, 11:51 PM

No, never made a difference, for me. No matter how many carbs I took in, or how little, the fina strength always slips away.

**PHATCAT** · 04-06-2003, 02:33 PM

Thanks GS

G-S · 04-06-2003, 08:44 PM

But, my results are not typical of what you might keep. I know others who kept most, and know a good amount who kept less. It depends on the person, just like anything else.

Good luck.

**MacGyver** · 04-06-2003, 10:11 PM

Whats up my man, you know my fucking sad ass story. Buuullllsshhiittt! Gains? whered you go?

6weeks is def not long enough for your body to want to keep the weight that you gain IMO. I think that that was the problem.

Do you need to keep the same workout going for the weeks after in recovery. Threres nop way in hell hat I can keep the same intensity when I have more Estrogen in me thatn test.

Call me crazy but I think Im at about a 60-70% recovered after only a couple of weeks. Im gonna go get checked in 2 moreand see where Im atbut I feel alright and everyhting seems to be working again, even w/the dbol bridge.

THe most amazing things happened opn that cycle but it didnt last. Im def gonna have to rethink that one and go for at least 4more weeks even if its EOD inj of the same.

**PHATCAT** · 04-06-2003, 10:24 PM

HEY BRO long wekened! Let me know watcha gonna do and like I said Im thinkin Im goin somewhere between 8-12 startin this may And you may be right about the every other day I dont know if it would be wise to go 12 wks ED spikes because it may cause Infection, let alone the PAIN!!!!! I started runnin out of spots to shoot! IM lookin for a different kind of AMAZEMENT this time around, BF droppin!!! LATA keep in touch 24 days out!!!!!!!!!!

**Warrior** · 04-07-2003, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by MacGyver
Do you need to keep the same workout going for the weeks after in recovery. Threres nop way in hell hat I can keep the same intensity when I have more Estrogen in me thatn test.

The only thing I have changed is no more morning cardio and added rest days. But same basic layout using GVT and POF but with less Holisitic days... I guess I did back off a little. My strength and lean weight stopped going up - but overall, I am maintaining it.

You're right though, different strokes for different folks. But coming off - and I mean completely off, requires a lot of an instinctive aproach to your training and diet and keeping yourself motivated. Clomid (LH and anti-e), Tribulis (LH), Tyrosine (dopamine), Creatine (ATP/CP stores), ECA (stimulate the adrenal glands)... are all good sups above and beyond the basics (multivit, ...) when coming off.

And I do not think cycle duration has anything to do with it. If anything, a 6 week cycle of short esters should be easier to recover from...

Sounds like a few people had a hard time keeping the gains...

**PHATCAT** · 04-07-2003, 11:08 AM

Warrior just wondering what else did you take with your cycle of TREN . Did mine alone and found it to not hold the weight. I think this is intresting considering most of the time we stack are shit and sence different esters stay in the body for different lengths of time. Makes me Wonder????? We all seen that poll how many cycles a year??? and I think it was 3-4 was the most popular SO considering this that means we do a 10-12 wk cycle and if its a long acting ester add a couple more wks and if its DECA its 4-6 more wks added........ this means 12 wks cycle = 3 mons x 3 cycles a yr that leaves a 1 month gap between each no wonder people claim they dont loose there gains on certain AS!!!! AND to make it even better a sinario if you do 4 cycles a yr at 12 wks BASICALLY your never off and you wouldnt have time to loose to much. THIS brings me to the real QUESTION even with a good post recover supplimentation cycle (anti estro's) how long do the GAINS really stay??????????? AND is there really a better AS????????

**Warrior** · 04-07-2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by PHATCAT
Warrior just wondering what else did you take with your cycle of TREN

I constructed the cycle basically like this:

Days 1-40: Tren /Prop @ 75mg/50mg ED
Days 41-75: Tren/Win @ 75mg/75mg ED
Days 41-75: Clomid @ 50mg ED

Began loding Clomid day 77 (I did 75mg of Winstrol day 76 alone)...

**bigwillystyle** · 04-07-2003, 10:19 PM

warrior is it recommended that you can run tren for ten weeks??
i know it is a lot of pokes(which sucks) but i thought tren really starts to shut you down bad after 8 weeks, let me know because i've been thinkin 10 for tren with some test for my next cycle.

**Warrior** · 04-08-2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by bigwillystyle
warrior is it recommended that you can run tren for ten weeks??
i know it is a lot of pokes(which sucks) but i thought tren really starts to shut you down bad after 8 weeks, let me know because i've been thinkin 10 for tren with some test for my next cycle.

I had no problems with running it this long. Blood pressure was fine, nothing crazy as far as acne... I would suggest running Clomid during the final weeks like I did (if not the entire duration) to help at least keep your testes awake... if running testosterone with it, Clomid can also help with estrogen at 50mg ED.

I was going to run it till day 80 - but desided to get off the gear. I was developing some stiff injections sites - scar tissue. It deffinitly is a lot of pokes... I rotated glutes, quads, biceps - and at the end, triceps (should have used these more during the cycle to give sites more of a break). Used 25 gauge and drew with a 20g (began with a 18g but it chewed up the rubber on the Tren vial and I had to refilter it

).

If your healthy and watch your vitals - I see no reason not to. The kidney thing is a myth... there is no glue in FinaPlix (or whatever rumor Dan Duchaine started about Fina) and your biggest worry on Trenbolone would be the heavy androgenic activity of it.

Words of advice: eat low carb at night or you'll sweat like a hog during the night.

**PHATCAT** · 04-08-2003, 09:10 AM

Warrior are you sure about that no glue ? So is it alright to do this conversion thing without the kit like I was just reading on that other thread. But Everclear that sonds........I dont know???? Do you do that?

**Warrior** · 04-09-2003, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by PHATCAT
Warrior are you sure about that no glue ? So is it alright to do this conversion thing without the kit like I was just reading on that other thread. But Everclear that sonds........I dont know???? Do you do that?

Fuck no! I am not a frickin' idiot

- that guy that did that did it to prove a point that Trenbolone Acetate can be made from Fina via the kits using less than sterile products and still not cause a bacterial infection. He was trying to proive that harsh sterilizing measures are not needed - like baking it. Personally I prefer the water method twice during conversion, that's it... once the night before to acclerate the pellet brake down and once before going through the whatman to settle the binders and make filtering easier.

**PHATCAT** · 04-09-2003, 08:21 AM

I agree hot water twice thats logical, heat to disolve them and heat to push' em!

**Warrior** · 04-09-2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by PHATCAT
I agree hot water twice thats logical, heat to disolve them and heat to push' em!

That - but also the heat the night before to dissolve them will hatch any spores so you can kill them the day after with next hot water process...

**PHATCAT** · 04-09-2003, 08:30 PM

I got a Question do you think the heat affects the Potency. You know on all MEDS it says keep in a cool dry Place ????????????? This crossed my mind on the Baking process for 45 min. I think it was! This other post about NO kit said he usedthe micro wave thats gotta do somthin to the JUICE?????

**Warrior** · 04-09-2003, 08:54 PM

Heat will most deffinitly hurt the chemical structure... this is why baking (and microwaving) is not a good idea... and from the grocery store experiment on sterility - it's obviously shown that those extremes are not necessary. IMO - the water pasteurizing is the best way to do it... and baking it in an oven for 45 minutes is big time overkill and fucks up the Trenbolone Acetate.

**PHATCAT** · 04-09-2003, 09:26 PM

Thats what I was thinking!!! Thanks for the Input Warrior!!!

**Trevor** · 04-09-2003, 09:57 PM

Hey fellas......first off Everybody reacts diffrently to diffrent compounds BUT you should have absolutley no problem in keeping your gains off of Tren (fina) provided that your dont get lazy or drop the intensity because you are no longer doing the steroid . I cant stress enough about how important it is to keep the intensity up just as high when you come off. As for the diet.....dont try to cut up when you come off...thats a bad idea. Keep the carbs/protien/calories all just as high for atleast 2 weeks or longer depending on your post cycle goals. I am a huge fan of Fina...it has become that "miracle" drug for me if such a thing exists. I will probably run it to some extent in all my future cycles. Just take a look at it.....it gives mass gains...leans you out.....significant strenght increase.....and its very economical in price!!! Now this is just my opinion but if someone says that they had a bad or poor experiance with Tren (fina) due to little gains or none at all then i would have to bet that their problems were NOT with the fina but rather their diet or workout routine.....The drugs are the final factor and should not be used until everything else is in check 100%. Thanks for listening to me fellas...Good luck to all.