Don't Ever Underestimate Insulin

**Mr. Nobody** · 11-29-2001, 07:58 PM

Things were going well with my post AAS insulin cycle. I had it down pat, all worked out....its not my first time with slin after all. I am doing 2 x 10iu of humalog with all the appropriate malto dextrin, creatine and whey followed by a large meal 40 min later.

Well this evening after my workout I decided to try 15iu...BIG MISTAKE. First I ingested 100g of whey and 120g of malto dextrin, went home and prepared my meal: 1 carton of egg whites (50g protein) with lots of ketchup and 1 bag of shredded potato. As I am sitting by the table eating my meal I am getting hypo...in the middle of my high carb/protein meal....started to sweat in streams and having panic attack like symptoms, I get up and proceeded to drink another glass of malto dextrin (about 40g). At this point I am seriously panicking, cause what are you suppose to do with a full stomach, can't consume more food. So I am sitting there and am trying to relax and finish my meal, still sweating like crazy from head to fore arms to my back and legs. Finally my digestion caught up with my insulin levels and I started to feel more normal again.

I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN.

Let my stupidity be a lesson to all.

ptbyjason · 11-29-2001, 08:09 PM

Damn bro, be careful man. Glad you are ok.

**atwa** · 11-29-2001, 08:11 PM

got be carefull with that insulin . glad your alright.

**gixxerboy1** · 11-29-2001, 09:08 PM

glad your ok bro.Go buy glucose tabs.You ca nbuy them any pharm or even target. Take 2 of those and that will help hypo fast.

**6pak2go** · 11-29-2001, 09:16 PM

I agree ,... glucagon sublingually (buy tabs at drug store)saved my butt one day...

**XBiker** · 11-29-2001, 09:44 PM

Although I have never done a slin cycle, this is one of the dangers I see in using it.

One small mistake and you're screwed.

Glad you made it through, please be careful. We don't want anymore "Lost a good bro" threads.

**Mr. Nobody** · 11-29-2001, 09:51 PM

no glucose or anything that has to be absorbed via my guts would have worked, remember I had a full stomach. The only thing that would have worked would be a shot of glucagon.
Anyways I learned not to mess with my established routine and dosages but stay with 10iu, 15iu of humalog is just way to aggressive...

**sniper oc** · 11-29-2001, 09:55 PM

That's pretty bad.the same thing happened to me.
I have been taking insilin one time a day at 10iu's,the other day I started at 2x a day at 8iu's. I was in court and I started to get real light headed and wanted to pass out so my buddy got me some candy,did not help.So I left court and went to the cafateriea
and ate a bagel, candy, tuna sandwitch.Went backto court hipper as hell.The cops stared at us beacuse they thought we did a line
they took my buddy back there and tried to aresset him for under the influince of speed.I took off after the grabed him.

**TNT** · 11-29-2001, 10:12 PM

. . . and decided to do a word search (in case I missed it) on a basic, essential word that comes up when the topic is hypoglycemia: orange.

Namely, when a diabetic goes into hypo, the first thing he or she should have is a glass of orange juice. (I learned this from a diabetic bro a few years ago when we were hangin' out in my living room and he went hypo. He started sweating, asked for a glass of O.J., and I immediately knew what was up.) My mother, who also shot insulin , used to go hypo as well, and the first thing we would do is give her a glass of O.J. with a teaspoon of sugar in it. Even then, it would take a while for her glucose levels to spike back up.

As for glucose tablets, they are best used (1) when you're out and don't have O.J. available, and (2) in addition to the O.J. in order to get a quicker spike on the glucose level. ("Bartender, I'll have three glucose tabs with an O.J. chaser!")

Hypoglycemia comes on fast, but goes away slow. You may feel fine one minute, then spaced out the next - lightheaded, perhaps sweating and experiencing some nausea. Diabetics know that when it happens, it's time to juice up (with O.J.) fast, and they won't even bother to check their glucose levels first (they can do it after drinking some juice, because it does take a while for the glucose levels to rise again). Above all, realize what's causing it - take action fast, but don't panic.

Mr. Nobody's comments are well put. BUt the meal he was eating, while high carb, was primarily high in complex carbs - the shredded potatoes. (The Malodextrin doesn't come close to O.J. in effectiveness.) Remember that complex carbs take some time to convert to glucose. Unlike simple sugars (like chocolate, soda, cake, or other things made with refined sugar) - which spike the glucose fast and wear off fast - complex carbs (potatoes, legumes, pasta, rice, breads, etc.) will last longer in the body, but will take longer to convert in the first place.

And gixxerboy made a great suggestion - if you're using slin, head to any drug store, Wal-Mart, or pharmacy department in a supermarket, and buy a few packs of glucose tabs. (They're only about $1.50 each in a plastic container that looks like a pack of LIfe Savers. And keep them handy - one at home, one at work or school, one in your car (because hypo can hit you while driving), one in your backpack (or briefcase if you're a suit type), and yes, one in your gym bag. (Remember, they won't do you any good if you don't have them at hand when you need them.) Don't buy the B-D glucose tabs in a paper box - they're a ripoff price-wise, and because they're not packaged in a plastic container they tend to get crushed before you need to use them.

Mr. Nobody - a great lesson for all of us. Glad you made it through, bro, and that you were hip enough to realize what was happening.

**Mr. Nobody** · 11-30-2001, 07:51 AM

I should mention, that I am an experienced slin user and have done (4) 4 week slin cycles before

my research has made me belief that maltodextrin has the highest G.I., even though it is a complex carb, I have used it with great success in the past. White potato also has a very high G.I so its suppose to be perfect (keep in mind I had gobs of ketchup...extremely high in sugar btw). I thought O.J is too high in fructose, which does not effect insulin levels that much, but had a glass anyway (forgot to mention that).
I truly belief that with humalog there is no way to do 15iu, no matter how much carbs you eat, it comes on too fast and aggressive, if you look at an insulin onset and duration graph you will notice that log peaks twice as high as Humalin R, that means I did the equivalent of 30 iu of R......

The Iron Game · 11-30-2001, 11:09 AM

humulin r, hahaha

forget that for a laugh

Mr Nobody, perhaps keeping some dextrose tabs on hand, they are good for when you have eaten and have a full stomach as you can chew them and they desolve in your mouth.

Peace

**Mr. Nobody** · 11-30-2001, 11:15 AM

Thanks Ig, I did not know dextrose tabs dissolve in your mouth and get absorbed transdermally through your blood vessels in your mouth and do not go down into your stomach

The Iron Game · 11-30-2001, 11:29 AM

Mr N, they probably do but the way I do them is by sucking on them and they seem to disolve under the tongue

**silverfox** · 11-30-2001, 11:58 AM

i prefer log too, but that is the problem with it, comes on so fast, your body doesn't have time to digest food fast enough. The glucose tabs work well, again hold them in your mouth, don't swallow. Saved my ass couble of times.

**Mr. Nobody** · 11-30-2001, 12:10 PM

From AE:
Anyone who is going to use insulin should take some time to familiarize him or herself with the glycemic index. The glycemic index is a ranking of foods based on how they effect the body's blood sugar levels. There are many resources that provide elaborate listing of many types of foods including fast foods. For our purposes it is merely important to identify the foods with high glycemic index scores to consume with the insulin injection. Below is a list of foods (or sugars) that scored very highly on the glycemic index.
Whole Foods or Candies
Jelly Beans
Dates

Sugar types
(in ascending order; Maltose elevates blood sugar the most)
Lactose
Honey
High fructose corn syrup
Glucose
Glucose tablets
Maltodextrin
Maltose

**brad13kpu** · 12-01-2001, 09:53 PM

I've done 25iu's of humalog before not thinking, only had a protein shake after, and didn;t feel any of the symptoms of hypoglycemia. Also I was doing 20iu twice a day. Am I just a freak or something?

**Mr. Nobody** · 12-02-2001, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by brad13kpu
I've done 25iu's of humalog before not thinking, only had a protein shake after, and didn;t feel any of the symptoms of hypoglycemia. Also I was doing 20iu twice a day. Am I just a freak or something?

25iu with only a protein shake???? Yep you got some expired or fake log, 25iu would make you cry like a bay before sending you in a coma.

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 10:58 AM

It wasn't fake. I got it prescribed by a doc and picked it up at Walmarts pharmacy and I did not read the numbers wrongs. It is not hard to read them. You get a insulin pin which holds 100 ius and I went up 25 dashes see its easy.

The Iron Game · 12-02-2001, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by brad13kpu
It wasn't fake. I got it prescribed by a doc and picked it up at Walmarts pharmacy and I did not read the numbers wrongs. It is not hard to read them. You get a insulin pin which holds 100 ius and I went up 25 dashes see its easy.

and you say you had just a protein shake?

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 11:53 AM

Yep only a protein shake. I know it was stupid but I wasn't thinking.

The Iron Game · 12-02-2001, 12:03 PM

do you mind me asking what that protein shake contained, in terms of macro-nutrients

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 12:17 PM

It was Methoxy Pro by Cytodyne Technologies. Idon't know all of the stuff that is in it because I dont have the jug anymore.

The Iron Game · 12-02-2001, 12:21 PM

how many servings did you have or just one? Sorry for all these questions but if you took 25ius of log and had nothing but 1 of those shakes then I fail to understand how you can still be typing this.

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 12:27 PM

A serving and a half.

**Mr. Nobody** · 12-02-2001, 02:38 PM

brad
Are you extremely overweight and suffer type 2 diabetis?
If so I would be very concerned by not having gone hypo or feel anything after what you did, it means your body has been desensitized to slin to the extreme....NOT GOOD AT ALL.
Read this:
http://www.testosterone.net/html/121ins.html

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 03:05 PM

Nope not overweight, only 10-12% bf, and no diabetes. I dont see how I could be desensities sense this was my first time taking it. This wasnt my first inj but was towards the end of my first cycle of it. I only used it for 4 weeks.

**Adaptek** · 12-02-2001, 05:04 PM

brad13kpu - could you tell me the lotto number please? You are one lucky bastard, thank the lord and praise Jesus you are still alive bro.

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 05:42 PM

I dont have the vial nemore so cant tell u the lot number. All I know is that it was deffinetly legit because I got a doctor friend to give me a script and I picked it up at the walmart pharmacy.

**Mr. Nobody** · 12-02-2001, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by brad13kpu
It wasn't fake. I got it prescribed by a doc and picked it up at Walmarts pharmacy and I did not read the numbers wrongs. It is not hard to read them. You get a insulin pin which holds 100 ius and I went up 25 dashes see its easy.

If you are not diabetic, how did you get it prescribed by a doc?

**Mr. Nobody** · 12-02-2001, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by brad13kpu
I dont have the vial nemore so cant tell u the lot number. All I know is that it was deffinetly legit because I got a doctor friend to give me a script and I picked it up at the walmart pharmacy.

I call bullshit, no doctor would knowingly prescribe insulin to a non-diabetic

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 06:02 PM

Fine call bullshit if you want, but it is true. This doc is a close friend and knew why I was using it. He trusts me so he gave it to me.

**brad13kpu** · 12-02-2001, 06:44 PM

It was a doc and he thought that the most I would take was 10iu at a time, but I was stupid and did that assumption if 10 is good 25 will be awesome. This is the last thing I'm going to post on this topic. If you want to believe then do, if you dont want to believe me then dont.

Ranger · 12-02-2001, 08:56 PM

There is alot of good info here, and as I am a diabetic I can relate....I have went Hypo twice in my life, and the last time, I was in a " Fuge " (sp) state....I don't remember it coming on, or anything after, the last thing I re-call was leaving the gym at 5pm, next thing I knew it was 1:30 in the morning and I'm at the emergency room getting Gluc. through an IV.....

Hypo is a killer, and can happen VERY quickly, lucky for me my parents found me tit's up in the garden and got me to the ER

I will side with MN on this....remember he injected insulin , his body was still producing it, with the amount of Insulin he had in his body, and the food he had eaten, it just took a bit of time, for me, when I get to shaking like a dog shitting peach seeds....Gatorade brings me around pretty quick, and I carry tabs with me everywhere and use them as needed.....

As for 25iu's and just a shake, no sides, nothing.....I am sorry, and not calling bullshit Bro, but I tend to agree that you misread the Slin Pins....My sister and mother both are BAD diabetics and use log....generally after every meal....25iu's would have bought them the dirt nap in a hurry....

BUT, live and learn my friend, you are OK and now smarter from it.....it wasn't to long ago AnabolicDiabetic and myself stopped a kid from injecting 1ml of H.log, he thought 1ml was the same as 1 iu......That would have been a certain death.....

Insulin should never be taken for granted, it is one of, if not the most anabolic compound you can use....

Be safe my Iron Brothers....Grow safe as well......

Ranger

***LewdTenant*** · 12-05-2001, 12:04 PM

is it possible he had the 40iu/ml version of slin.
25iu's of that is equal to 10iu's of slin if my math is correct.

but I am not sure how one converts the 40iu/ml kinds for proper dosing.

Lewd

**j_kiler** · 12-05-2001, 05:40 PM

Brad's sooo right cause once I shot like 5cc's right into my vein and then I had a protein bar and I was cool.

j/k

**Boston** · 12-09-2001, 12:27 AM

I found this whole thread very fascinating! I definately have no desire to mess with Slin any time soon. It seems to me that this stuff should be left up to those who really have there shit together. I am very curious however, do those of you who have used Slin seen enough hard core results to justify this risky shit? After I read this thread I went and looked at the drug profile.... "With well-timed injections, insulin will help to bring glycogen and other nutrients to the muscle." Is that pretty much the jist of it?

And by the way, could someone explain this to me...

"Dosages used are usually 1 IU per 10-20 pounds of lean bodyweight."

Does that mean that if I weigh 250 lbs. that I can take 25iu of slin? I don't think so... Maybe someone should check that drug profile before someone hurts themself.

Great thread y'all... I really like the way that everyone looks out for each other.

**Gonna Be HUGE** · 12-09-2001, 04:09 PM

Bro, about the drug profiles, that is actually pretty accurate. Obviously, everbody is different, but the highest I got up to on slin was 25-30 ius 3 times a day. Now, I don't recommend that for everyone, but if you can handle it and you're very strict and disciplined on your diet you can do it.

BTW, it was Humalin R, not log (25 ius of log would kill a small elephant, I don't care who you are) and in addition I have a very mild case of type-2 diabetes (it runs in the family, so I have the fu**ing gene

). That means I am naturally very low on slin (It makes it so hard to lose weight when you always have high blood sugar levels

)

Lata

**gixxerboy1** · 12-09-2001, 09:23 PM

i call bullshit too.Im a diabetic and take log the most i take is 15iu and if i dont eat right it messes me up

**Gonna Be HUGE** · 12-09-2001, 09:29 PM

I agree. Log is some strong shi*. I only got up to 10ius of Log and it was too much for me (and I'm slightly diabetic too) if I didn't eat right.

I think his bottle was mislabeled. It had to be R if he took that much, no way it was Log.

**Gonna Be HUGE** · 12-09-2001, 09:30 PM

BTW, Leaving slin out of the fridge for more than a couple months makes it less effective. Maybe his was left out for a while and wasn't at full potency.