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Thread: Why is it important to run an AI when on cycle?

  1. #81
    Flier's Avatar
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    "Inside the prostate, prolactin attaches to its receptor that belongs to the cytokine 1 receptor superfamily and is localized in chromosome 5. In addition the receptor
    has 2 domains that are separate in the resting state but that become homodimerized once they are joined to prolactin. In this manner intracellular signaling is produced by means of JAK-STAT kinases.

    Once prolactin is attached to its receptor that carries out tyrosine kinase activity, it phosphorylates JAK 2 and STAT-1, 3 and 5a and b. Later on STAT-5 a/b dimers are formed and they are translocated to the nucleus to act on DNA sequences which in turn activate promoter sequences for prostate cell proliferation, differentiation and survival, in normal as well as malignant cells."

    ....Exactly what I was thinking!

    Great thread. I´d use Aromasin again.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by pikenat View Post
    Do you suggest using an ai all the way up to pct or just up till last pin?
    Drop it 3-4 days from beginning PCT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flier View Post
    "Inside the prostate, prolactin attaches to its receptor that belongs to the cytokine 1 receptor superfamily and is localized in chromosome 5. In addition the receptor
    has 2 domains that are separate in the resting state but that become homodimerized once they are joined to prolactin. In this manner intracellular signaling is produced by means of JAK-STAT kinases.

    Once prolactin is attached to its receptor that carries out tyrosine kinase activity, it phosphorylates JAK 2 and STAT-1, 3 and 5a and b. Later on STAT-5 a/b dimers are formed and they are translocated to the nucleus to act on DNA sequences which in turn activate promoter sequences for prostate cell proliferation, differentiation and survival, in normal as well as malignant cells."

    ....Exactly what I was thinking!

    Great thread. I´d use Aromasin again.
    Exactly.

  3. #83
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    Just to make sure I understand, while I'm priming with gh (4iu for 6 weeks) just keep the aromasin on hand, but once I add in the test p/tren a for the next 6 weeks, dose aromasin at 12.5 eod?

    I'm not planning to get off by the way, I'm probably going to cruise on 4iu and 250 mg test for a while, so I guess no pct after the initial 12 weeks, but continue aromasin until I eventually cycle off. Right?

    Thanks again.

  4. #84
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    do you think DHT based aas are enough to lower the estrogen like primo or mast-e???

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMuscle83 View Post
    Just to make sure I understand, while I'm priming with gh (4iu for 6 weeks) just keep the aromasin on hand, but once I add in the test p/tren a for the next 6 weeks, dose aromasin at 12.5 eod?

    I'm not planning to get off by the way, I'm probably going to cruise on 4iu and 250 mg test for a while, so I guess no pct after the initial 12 weeks, but continue aromasin until I eventually cycle off. Right?

    Thanks again.
    Get BW done when you lower the Test, but use Aromasin when ramping steroid doses, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidty View Post
    do you think DHT based aas are enough to lower the estrogen like primo or mast-e???
    I can use less, but not subsititute.

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    how important is it to run an AI when on a sus250 only cycle. I was told it wasnt necesary. But make sure i have Nolva and clomid on hand for PCT 2 weeks after last injection. And what is the best Ai for sus250??

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    Quote Originally Posted by arico View Post
    how important is it to run an AI when on a sus250 only cycle. I was told it wasnt necesary. But make sure i have Nolva and clomid on hand for PCT 2 weeks after last injection. And what is the best Ai for sus250??
    Go back to the beginning of this thread and read the information Swifto presented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arico View Post
    how important is it to run an AI when on a sus250 only cycle. I was told it wasnt necesary. But make sure i have Nolva and clomid on hand for PCT 2 weeks after last injection. And what is the best Ai for sus250??
    Why are you using such a small amount and shutting your system down,thats not much more than TRT amount.It doesnt seem like it's worth going through all the problems and side effects for such a small amount of steroids , having to use an AI then doing PCT. Sure you might make some small gains but it hardly seems worth it,500mg a week seems like a more appropiate amount. Not trying to be a jerk but that just seems like a small amount especially since sustanon was intended to given 250mg once a week for TRT. I could see it if you have low test.are you going to use more than 250mg a week,like 250mg twice a week or just 250mg once a week.
    Last edited by MR10X; 01-25-2012 at 03:36 AM.

  9. #89
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    ummm what? where did i write i was using a low amount? i intended on doing 500mg a week? where did u get 250mg from?

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    MR10X is offline Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    From this,it doesnt state how many shots or how much a week you will be doing. Really need to know the total amount to tell you how much AI to use....
    "how important is it to run an AI when on a sus250 only cycle."

  11. #91
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    oh i see, im doing a 10 week cycle and ive just ordered tamox. clomid and liquidex. So??

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by arico View Post
    ummm what? where did i write i was using a low amount? i intended on doing 500mg a week? where did u get 250mg from?
    Quote Originally Posted by arico View Post
    oh i see, im doing a 10 week cycle and ive just ordered tamox. clomid and liquidex. So??
    READ THE THREAD FROM THE START!

    Dont clutter my thread with useless shit when its evident you haven't read the article on post 1.

  13. #93
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    Bump.

  14. #94
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    I'm glad this thread got over 2,000 views.

    At another advanced forum I posted it on, it got barely 100 as its not stating the secret to becoming a monster...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto
    I'm glad this thread got over 2,000 views.

    At another advanced forum I posted it on, it got barely 100 as its not stating the secret to becoming a monster...
    Post the secrets to becoming a monster ill view it 2000+ times

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto
    I'm glad this thread got over 2,000 views.

    At another advanced forum I posted it on, it got barely 100 as its not stating the secret to becoming a monster...
    Just goes to show how much emphasis this site and its members put on doing things as safely as possible. Thanks to our vets and those who take time to research extensively, there is a culture here of doing things properly.

    I joined this site and read for months and figured our protocols for safe use and especially pct were standard. I have since joined a hand full of other popular BB sites which I visit on occasion. I have noticed that no other sites, in my experience, put a priority on full recovery and moderate AAS use like this site does. I've seen top mods on other sites condoning no pct, or garbage protocols like hcg + adex for 4 weeks.

    I am truly greatful that this is the first site I started really researching on and joined. If I were to listen to the advice on some other forums, who knows what crazy advice I would have received.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasc View Post
    Just goes to show how much emphasis this site and its members put on doing things as safely as possible. Thanks to our vets and those who take time to research extensively, there is a culture here of doing things properly.

    I joined this site and read for months and figured our protocols for safe use and especially pct were standard. I have since joined a hand full of other popular BB sites which I visit on occasion. I have noticed that no other sites, in my experience, put a priority on full recovery and moderate AAS use like this site does. I've seen top mods on other sites condoning no pct, or garbage protocols like hcg + adex for 4 weeks.

    I am truly greatful that this is the first site I started really researching on and joined. If I were to listen to the advice on some other forums, who knows what crazy advice I would have received.
    This site has no alterior motvies, thats why.

    Bump.

  18. #98
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    Awesome thread Swifto, favorited.

    You have touched on Arom being better then Adex simply because of less damage on the body but how much damage are we talking here?

    I ask because I just stocked up on some Adex and considering its half life it works perfectly alongside my trt without me having to go out of my way. M/W/F .5mg each day

    Im not above dishing out more cash to pick up some aromasin but dosing adex 3x weekly or even 2x weekly is about a 100 times more convienent for my work schedule and general life.

    Tell me im stupid and ill go order some Aromasin and bitch n moan while taking it ED lol.

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    When (at how many weeks is what I am getting at) should I get blood work done and I should pay attention to the Estradiol number and what range should I try and get at. I am going to be running 100mg Test Prop ED and 100mg Anavar (8 weeks) for 12 weeks altogether.

  20. #100
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    Great post really cleared things up.

    Thanks Swifto

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasc View Post
    Just goes to show how much emphasis this site and its members put on doing things as safely as possible. Thanks to our vets and those who take time to research extensively, there is a culture here of doing things properly.

    I joined this site and read for months and figured our protocols for safe use and especially pct were standard. I have since joined a hand full of other popular BB sites which I visit on occasion. I have noticed that no other sites, in my experience, put a priority on full recovery and moderate AAS use like this site does. I've seen top mods on other sites condoning no pct, or garbage protocols like hcg + adex for 4 weeks.

    I am truly greatful that this is the first site I started really researching on and joined. If I were to listen to the advice on some other forums, who knows what crazy advice I would have received.
    Well said! This is my go to for almost all information BB related now. Not only is the AAS information priceless, the nutrition and workout information is WAY ahead of anywhere else.

  22. #102
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    What's your opinion on adding prov? Will that mean I take less aromasin ?

    My cycle I'm ready to start is 4iu gh, 300mg test e/week, and 80mg anavar . I was thinking of adding prov at 50mg ed. Should I still add aromasin at 12.5 eod.

    Thanks.

  23. #103
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    Bump for the bros

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    Bump for the bros that are injecting their AI´s
    Learning is fun!

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sector View Post
    Awesome thread Swifto, favorited.

    You have touched on Arom being better then Adex simply because of less damage on the body but how much damage are we talking here?

    I ask because I just stocked up on some Adex and considering its half life it works perfectly alongside my trt without me having to go out of my way. M/W/F .5mg each day

    Im not above dishing out more cash to pick up some aromasin but dosing adex 3x weekly or even 2x weekly is about a 100 times more convienent for my work schedule and general life.

    Tell me im stupid and ill go order some Aromasin and bitch n moan while taking it ED lol.
    Marginal.

    AI's lower IGF by anything from upto about 20%. Never seen anymore than that.

    However, exogenous testostrone and other androgens will increase IGF levels, so may nagate this negative effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramacher View Post
    When (at how many weeks is what I am getting at) should I get blood work done and I should pay attention to the Estradiol number and what range should I try and get at. I am going to be running 100mg Test Prop ED and 100mg Anavar (8 weeks) for 12 weeks altogether.
    Why dont you just run Aromasin at 7-10mg/ED?

    Your Estradoil needs to be below 49 (max) IMO. Mid to low ranges is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome_Archy View Post
    Great post really cleared things up.

    Thanks Swifto
    Glad you found it helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMuscle83 View Post
    What's your opinion on adding prov? Will that mean I take less aromasin?

    My cycle I'm ready to start is 4iu gh, 300mg test e/week, and 80mg anavar . I was thinking of adding prov at 50mg ed. Should I still add aromasin at 12.5 eod.

    Thanks.
    Proviron , in my experience, is bullshit at combating estrogenic sides, nor do I know how much it will LOWER estrogen. AI's are proven.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasc View Post
    Just goes to show how much emphasis this site and its members put on doing things as safely as possible. Thanks to our vets and those who take time to research extensively, there is a culture here of doing things properly.

    I joined this site and read for months and figured our protocols for safe use and especially pct were standard. I have since joined a hand full of other popular BB sites which I visit on occasion. I have noticed that no other sites, in my experience, put a priority on full recovery and moderate AAS use like this site does. I've seen top mods on other sites condoning no pct, or garbage protocols like hcg + adex for 4 weeks.

    I am truly greatful that this is the first site I started really researching on and joined. If I were to listen to the advice on some other forums, who knows what crazy advice I would have received.
    I couldn't agree more with you. This site is by far the most responsible, and it teaches others to be accountable for their actions. And as members we have an obligation to provide or search the most up to date information available, and to protect young people from damaging their developing systems as best we can.

    I'm so proud to be a member on this site. I look forward to learning and providing assistance whenever I can.

  27. #107
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    I just purchased an AI for my next cycle. Thanks for the info.

  28. #108
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    bump

  29. #109
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    now im more confused

    Hi
    excuse my ignorance but please enlighten me.
    I read that a ruduced estrogen level will cause erectile dysfunction?
    Is that direct or indirect by affecting the HPTA? or by estrogen feedback increasing prolactin maybe? is that possible?

    and while on the subject can the estrogen blocking agents in some target tissues actually activate or inhibit the pituitary?

    And DHT- is it needed for erectile function? i took oral propecia and lost my morning erections so it scared me off, now i fear baldness and avoid DHT but some exogenouse compounds are DHB (primo), can DHB do the same to hair as DHT? someone told me any androgen in high amount will cause hair loss. and does DHT and DHB cause the same HPTA inhibition as testosterone ?

    I am trying to avoid as much as possible any hair loss or diminished libido or erectile dysfunction more than any muscle gains, i am getting old.

    thanks for incite
    mike

  30. #110
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    Arimidex during cycle, what's the story with half-lives, etc?
    Should I be at 12.5mg ED, or .25mg EOD?

  31. #111
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    Arimidex is not dosed at 12.5mg ed. That would be stane. Adex usually .25 or even .5 ed

  32. #112
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    adex and letro has a 48 hour half life,aromasin has a 24 hour half life.clomid and nolvadex have a 6 day half life.HCG has a 36 hour half life.If you kill all your estro you will have ED,keeping it a normal range wont effect it.
    Last edited by MR10X; 02-20-2012 at 01:35 PM.

  33. #113
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    Agree on the adex. Most start with .5 and keep it.there

  34. #114
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    Haven't seen it mentioned in this thread yet.. What would you dose letro at for a standard cycle (500mg/wk test)? .5mg eod? .5mg e3d? .25mg ed/eod?

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGuy90 View Post
    Arimidex is not dosed at 12.5mg ed. That would be stane. Adex usually .25 or even .5 ed
    Quote Originally Posted by MR10X View Post
    adex and letro has a 48 hour half life,aromasin has a 24 hour half life.clomid and nolvadex have a 6 day half life.HCG has a 36 hour half life.If you kill all your estro you will have ED,keeping it a normal range wont effect it.
    Quote Originally Posted by gearbox View Post
    Agree on the adex. Most start with .5 and keep it.there
    Awesome info, thanks. Arimidex .25 ED, or .5 EOD it is then, I assume. does it really matter ED vs. EOD?
    Last edited by oatmeal69; 02-20-2012 at 02:10 PM.

  36. #116
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    bump

  37. #117
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    fvck im sick of bumping this lol

    can somebody make it a sticky?

  38. #118
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    I always read that you should stop Deca 2 weeks before Test since Deca stays in the system longer than Test. Is there new information?
    For a 16 week cycle, I thought you should stop deca at week 13 or 14 so it doesnt run into PCT.

  39. #119
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    its about time....

    it only makes sence to me.i never quite understood the whole no ai on cycle.i ran 12.5 mg or aromasin eod ,went well.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    Great stuff Swift.
    Its time to put the foolish no need for an ai in the abscence of gyno symptoms BS to rest.
    Also the more estrgogen = more gains being prudent notion needs to disappear as well.

  40. #120
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    bump again, hey can somebody make this a god damn sticky

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