buddy wont listen(1000mg test 1st cycle)

[popa]

My buddy talked to me about his first cycle and he asked me what I usually take so I told him, gram of test a week with 40mgs of D's ed. Now he's going to do the same... omg....I told him that it was too much for a first cycle but he won't listen..what's the worst thing that can happen to him? I don't know anyone that did that much on a first cycle. Has any of you did that high of a dosage on your first cycle?
Cause I sure didn't...lol

[nj_]

He could have some adverse side effects (gyno, hair loss, prostate enlargement), he'll also have to use high doses in future cycles to achieve decent results. If he is gonna run 1g/wk test, PLEASE get him to throw in femara @ 2.5mg ED.

[longhornDr]

Have him look at that gynecomastia website.

[popa]

Originally posted by longhornDr
Have him look at that gynecomastia website.

what site is that..I'll like to take a look as well

[nj_]

www.gynecomastia.org

[iron4life79]

nj summed it up pretty well.........

he should also come on this board and talk to a few of the low dosage gurus that hang here.


peace IFL79

[Ozzy]

You could go shopping with him to help him pick out a double-D Bra that he will be wearing. If that don't change his mind then take him to the nearest street corner in New York and sell his ass after his cycle !

[Boxer101]

A good friend of mine started his first cycle several months back. He did the following cycle...

wk1-10 400mg test/wk
wk1-6 25mg dbol /ed
wk11-12 standard clomid post cycle (300/100/50)

He kept anti-e's on hand but never needed them. Gains were 27 lbs after 10 weeks and a total gain of 21 lbs 1 month after post-cycle. He followed every bit of advice he was given to the letter including diet, training, and pharmacology and yielded some phenomenal results. There is absolutely no reason to down 1g of test a week it not only brings potential sides but is also just plain wasteful. Tell your friend if he does things properly the right cycle, training, and diet are going to have more effect then 2grams of test and shit training/diet. More isn't always better.

Have him post his stats and goals here and between all the members here I am sure he will meet every goal and then some as long as he has the discipline to follow through with everything else that needs to be done inconjuction.

[kazual]

Have your friend join AR and once he's on please advise us of his screen name so the board can help guide him to informed choices concerning his body. BTW what is his age?

[gregtheheifer]

Did he even plan on taking anti-e's before he talked to you?

[Slypknot]

It sounds like your friend has the same misconception as most do when they decide to start using AS. They believe MORE = BETTER. This is understandable as in most cases with drug use it holds true...the more you drink the more fucked up ya get. The more ya smoke the higher you go.

But with AS this is not the case. It seems the body has a limit on how much it can gain regardless of the high dose of test floating around in the bloodstream but it also appears that side effects do NOT have a limit and can get quite extreme with the higher the dosage. Meaning 500mg of test a week might equal 20lbs of gains with little side effects, while 1g of test a week might equal 20lbs of gains with a LOT of side effects.

But there are those out there that just 'dont believe' anything...they get on a path and are stubborn till the end. If your friend is one of these types of people I'd let him run the damn cycle, the hell with trying to push him to anti e's - and let him reap the wonderful results. This way he MIGHT learn a lesson.... I hate people who refuse to accept advice on something they have no knowledge of, just because it lowers their freak'n ego's...

[Sigmund Froid]

Hang on a second before we jump to any conclusions. A good case can be made for starting with 1,000mg of test. Side effects can still be easily managed at those doses with proper ancillaries on hand. It is simply not true that he will need higher dosages in the future. I refuse to even address this problem anymore. You can check any number of my posts where I have put into question (if not categorically disproved) the idea of "tolerance" to steroids . If he needs MORE steroids for future cycles because of this one, it is because he will have made such dramatic gains, that he will be at a higher body weight - and for all drugs, steroids included, higher body weight requires higher dosages.

NJ: You mentioned side effects for which there are ancillaries.

longhorn: Here again, ancillaries can manage those doses. The side effects of 1,000mg aren't much worse than the sides of 500mg, but the gains are also NOT double 500mg. Still, noticably better than 500mg.

Slypknot: More is better. Something special happens at doses of 1,000mg+ that you just don't see at more conservative doses. You are right, by doubling the dosage from 500 to 1000 he will not go from 20lb to 40lbs gain. However, he might go to 30lbs. To claim that there would not be a significant difference in gains is unsupportable. A number of studies have shown that muscle hypertrophy is proportionate to dosage. Naturally, side effects increase somewhat with dosage as well.

It is not WHETHER you do high dosages, it is HOW you do high dosages. Believe it or not, there is a safe way for a beginner to cycle 1,000mg of test per week.

On a cycle of 1000mg of test, there will be significant water retention, but the gains will be much much better than 500mg. Gains are dose related, so are side effects. By the time you are done combining all the different sorts of gear that people combine, they are usually well over 1,000mg total anyway. Of course, people will immediately claim that they are combining less side effect prone drugs with test, but that is not always the case.

In all honesty, it sounds like popa's friend might not understand what he is doing, and that is the only danger. I think it is far less dangerous for this kid to do fewer high dose cycles than it is to do many low dose cycles. Let's face it. He can get to where he wants to be quickly and not have to use steroids for very long, or he can take much longer, and suffer the adverse effects of frequent (low dose) cycles, and risk prolonged exposure to androgens.

This is a controversial point, but I believe that length of exposure is a worse risk factor than dosage. If someone eats 200 dbols (5mg each) in one day, they will live through it. Of course, if he dose the "safe" 500mg dose for 20 cycles, he will be at a higher risk of serious long term health problems. This is only my theory, and I think it is a reasonable one.

-SF

[Sigmund Froid]

Here is some more info from Brock Strasser over at t-mag.com. This is a well reasoned article, and based firmly in his personal experience. These are comments from someone who works closely with a number of steroid users and counsels them through cycles. He has the hands on experience to make these claims. Often, people opposed to high dose cycles haven't even tried them. I must add, though, that I disagree with his recommendation for a 3 gram frontload. I could be wrong, but if he is only going for reaching steady state levels quickly, it would only be necessary to do about 2 grams the first week. Of course, if he is trying to go above the steady state, he is doing the right thing.

----------------------
Strasseroids
By Brock Strasser


Just like Nana suggested...Gramabol

It seems that everyone has a different version of the "best cycle" for mass gains. What is your opinion on the best 'roids for getting as huge as possible? While you're at it, what's the best way to cycle them?

Dan Duchaine once said that "if you can't grow on Deca and D-bol, you just can't grow." Maybe Dan was right. However, my opinion is a little different, as I maintain that "if you can't grow on testosterone , you just can't grow." Testosterone is the best, overall mass builder from a strictly utilitarian perspective. Sure, I like Anadrol , but it is tough to find, often causes headaches or nausea, and is expensive as hell, at least for the Syntex stuff. You also end up losing quite a bit of muscle mass after you come off of it.

D-bol is pretty good, too. But if I could pick one steroid for mass gains, it would be a testosterone...probably testosterone cypionate (or Sostenon 250, if you can't get plain cypionate ). I like high doses. Not crazy-ass, Paul Borresson/Governor-type of doses, but certainly I like doses in the gram-a-week range. And I like a ten-week cycle when using testosterone. If it were legal in the states, this is exactly how I would do a mega-mass builder:

Week 1
• 3,000 mg of testosterone per week
• 100 mg of clomiphene citrate every other day

Weeks 2-10
• 1,000 mg of testosterone per week
• 50 mg of clomiphene citrate every other day

Weeks 11-14 (post-cycle)
• 50 mg of clomiphene citrate per day

So, for this cycle, you'd need 12 grams of testosterone (that's 48 amps of Sostenon 250) and 128 of those 25-mg Clomifin capsules (or 64 of the 50-mg jobs).

What's my logic? Well, the big dose of testosterone in the first week is to get your blood levels of the stuff really high, really quickly, so that it has an immediate effect. The clomiphene is there to deal with the estrogenic issues during and after the cycle and to minimize the HPTA crash post-cycle. If you're retaining too much water and look like a bloatbag, you can use 50 mg of Clomid every day during weeks 2-10. This is a fairly inexpensive cycle, costing maybe $650 to $850 or so. And I'm willing to bet that most people would gain well over 35 pounds of mass from this, along with serious increases in strength.

This ain't for the faint of heart, and it ain't subtle in the least because everyone is going to know that you're a juiceball. But if you don't care about what people think, then this is the cycle for mass building. You'll feel like Superman on this cycle, and you'll notice the gains within 21 days (you'll really see quite a bit, and so will everyone else). You can use other steroids , for sure, and you can come up with all types of whacked-out stacks that will probably work. But, hey, if you're going to spend all sorts of serious cash on weird-ass gear, why not add in some testosterone?

Testosterone is the Miracle Whip of all juice—it goes pretty darned good with everything. Besides, why spend a down payment on a Porsche and go through the trouble of finding four different types of gear when you can get the same, or better, results from using plain old testosterone?

Side effects? I'm willing to bet that the side effects from a gram of testosterone per week aren't much different or more severe than what you'd see with just 400-500 mg a week. But the gains that you see on a gram...whoa! Big difference!!! Just call this the Gramabol cycle and get a toupee.

[Sigmund Froid]

By the way...I have the utmost respect for you guys as fellow board members. I was just trying to offer some advice (which I try to do to the best of my knowledge) and felt free to disagree. Let me know if I overlooked something or you have a better approach.

-SF