Do we really keep our gains ???

**PHATCAT** · 04-07-2003, 11:13 AM

I think this is intresting considering most of the time we stack are shit and sence different esters stay in the body for different lengths of time. Makes me Wonder????? We all seen that poll how many cycles a year??? and I think it was 3-4 was the most popular SO considering this that means we do a 10-12 wk cycle and if its a long acting ester add a couple more wks and if its DECA its 4-6 more wks added........ this means 12 wks cycle = 3 mons x 3 cycles a yr that leaves a 1 month gap between each that we are actually still on, no wonder people claim they dont loose there gains on certain AS!!!! AND to make it even better a sinario if you do 4 cycles a yr at 12 wks BASICALLY your never off and you wouldnt have time to loose to much of that new Muscle . THIS brings me to the real QUESTION even with a good post recover supplimentation cycle (anti estro's) how long do the GAINS really stay??????????? AND is there really a better AS????????

**MR BICEPS** · 04-07-2003, 11:17 AM

I've been wondering the smae thing! I went off for one year and lost all my strength and gains form a EQ/WINSTROL /SUSTANTON cycle.
I kept up my diet and training. It's as if I slowly but surely lost everything. Maybe we dont keep any if very little of the gains??
Just not real sure!

**Juicifer** · 04-07-2003, 11:47 AM

my question is:

if everyone seems to gain 15lbs every cycle....at 3 cycles a year thats 45lbs... 45lbs a year would make even a 150 dude about 240 in 2 years.... ummm yeah right.... are these ppl posting their results right when they pop their first clomid? hello! Mcfly!!! or maybe they are to ashamed to say they gained less...

**Madmax** · 04-07-2003, 11:56 AM

id say 2 cycles a year should be ran max...if you run 2 12 weeks cycles, thats half a year on...if time on = time off then you shuld only do 2 cycles per year....another downside to running that many cycles is, when it comes time to recover, you wont....reason bieng you didnt wait long enough to get your test back up, and that would result in a loss of muscle...so my advice if your not going to let your self have enough time to recover you might as well stay on all year or go on hrt...because when you come off you will be shut down worse than you ever have before....Madmax..

**dizzle** · 04-07-2003, 11:58 AM

I think a lot depends on your genetics. once you've hit that setpoint of how much muscle your body has on you, it is very hard to keep the gains when coming off.

**PHATCAT** · 04-07-2003, 12:45 PM

Thats what Im thinking to Dizzle! I for sure with out a doubt gained an Impressive 30 lbs my first cycle on a DECA only for 8 wks. I never lost that weight or strength. That was at the age of 21 where I think my body was ready to grow but now Im just at that set point where I dont think Ill ever get an Instant increase like previosly seen. Ya maybe 10-15 lbs and maybe a little more if you consider the fat and water accumulation, but in the end your back to your bodies set point! Any one else notice when your lookin through those member Pictures the REAL Impressive ones are the guys that were 220 and droped to 170-180 with there body fat 3%. They look AWSOME and way way bigger than, well me at 220 with body fat at 18% !!! AND from what ive seen most the others here!!! So are we kiddin are selves when we keep bouncin back and forth from bulk to bulk cycle and never really droppin that fat to exposing the Body in disguise!!!! So maybe thats why Pros Juice all year then drop only right before there show. This builds there muscle all year with NO loss and then they still Juice right up to OR the day before the show on short acting esters. Preventing Catabolism and not letting the body get back to its set Point!!!

**Lift Chief** · 04-07-2003, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by PHATCAT
Thats what Im thinking to Dizzle! I for sure with out a doubt gained an Impressive 30 lbs my first cycle on a DECA only for 8 wks. I never lost that weight or strength. That was at the age of 21 where I think my body was ready to grow but now Im just at that set point where I dont think Ill ever get an Instant increase like previosly seen. Ya maybe 10-15 lbs and maybe a little more if you consider the fat and water accumulation, but in the end your back to your bodies set point! Any one else notice when your lookin through those member Pictures the REAL Impressive ones are the guys that were 220 and droped to 170-180 with there body fat 3%. They look AWSOME and way way bigger than, well me at 220 with body fat at 18% !!! AND from what ive seen most the others here!!! So are we kiddin are selves when we keep bouncin back and forth from bulk to bulk cycle and never really droppin that fat to exposing the Body in disguise!!!! So maybe thats why Pros Juice all year then drop only right before there show. This builds there muscle all year with NO loss and then they still Juice right up to OR the day before the show on short acting esters. Preventing Catabolism and not letting the body get back to its set Point!!!

When you're ready to cut you just do a cutting cycle... Most of us don't bulk every cycle.

Once you hit your genetic weight limit you need to stay on gear otherwise you will eventually go back to your set point.

Most people aren't at their genetic limit though.

**PHATCAT** · 04-07-2003, 06:56 PM

Im thinkin its not really posible to do one cycle bulkin and then one cycle cuttin (thats 2 cycles) and thats it and keep your gains. Like Juicifer mentioned if everyone here keeps sayin I gained 20 pounds and they do just THREE cycles a yr that would put every 170 lbs light weight at 230 in a yr and I dont see to many stories here wait.......... I dont see any stories or pictures here to prove that to be true. This leads me to the conclusion we DONT keep our GAINS unless your stayin on all YEAR.......... or close to it!

**Cynical** · 04-07-2003, 07:22 PM

I think poeple reach their "limits" and when they do they loose gains much easier. I started AAS way too early (age 18) and i kept EVERY lbs that i gained and kept on gaining after i stoped lifting. you take someone who has been lifting for a long time and reached a peak for example, when they take roids they gain alot then slowly go back to origional size. i dunno this is just my thought, no scientific data or anything so dont hold me to it

**Rickson** · 04-07-2003, 09:29 PM

Why do you assume that every cycle has to gain you 20 lbs? I am very happy now when I put 8 to 10 lbs of real lean body mass on a year. Of course you can keep gains but if you think you are going to keep 20lbs of weight every cycle then you are crazy. Most people do not have the same intensity or nutritional awareness off cycle as they do on. Lets face it most people get lazy and let the steroids do the work.

**nails55** · 04-07-2003, 11:30 PM

I only did it once and kept more than half. I did Omnadrin, and Anadrol . I think the biggest reason I kept so much was I used something from GNC called DHCP. Its for old people whos bodies don't produce as much testosterone anymore. I also did a bunch of androstien. Everybody says its crap, but one of the two seemed to work for me. And of couse an ass load of protein, creatine, and vitamins.

**Warrior** · 04-08-2003, 12:03 AM

Let me ask you this...

If I gave you the body of Skip Lacour (all natural BB spokesman) - could you maintain it given your current knowledge of your system?

Training experience and personal knowledge of your body to maximize results will effect your ability to maintain gains post cycle. Knowing when your overtraining or simply giving yourself excuses. Knowing how to train for a more advanced level. Let's face it - it 3 months you can gain what would have taken at least year of full intensity and learning without the anabolic aid.

You have a natural potential barrier to. Your endogenous androgen levels will only allow you to hold so much. If you have low natural testosterone levels - your body is not equiped to hold a lot of muscle naturally (off-cycle)...

Age matters too. After 30 your natural androgen levels fall like a rock. And what was easy to maintain before - gets more difficult.

Your body wants symetry. While on anabolic steroids , because of the extreme anabolic conditions you can throw your body off balance pretty easy. Such as over developing your upper body in porportion to your lower body... and when you come off - your system starts to try and "fix" itself. IMO- quality gains depend a lot on an advanced user using the same split that got them results naturally - but with less rest days needed and higher intensity. Working the entire body equally...

The types of AAS you choose also effects quality of gains... if fast is what you want - drop a bunch of Anadrol 50 and swole up - but the results are more water than actual hypertrophy of the muscle... less actual anabolic effects.

IMO - all large, competitive, all natural bodybuilders have done at least one cycle. If not a dozen before going comletely natural simply to maintenance their natural potential. AAS just helped them get to that genetic potentil faster. They maintain their gains with advanced knowledge about what gives them results via diet and training...

That's my .02

**PHATCAT** · 04-08-2003, 11:26 AM

OK so at 2 cycles a year you may........ gain 10 lbs year. thats sayin you only keep (25 % of new gains) 5 lbs- of the 20lbs gained each cycle. Im not Implying that we will keep 20 lbs , I dont think we TRULY keep ANY above that first cycle ! But the issue remains I know I have not gained 70 lbs of LEAN muscle over the last 7 yrs!!! Just courious can any body here say THEY HAVE????????????? SO i think UNLESS your goin all year your not keepin gains Maybe just maintaining your set point! This may be your Goals but not mine! IM lookin for SOLID results with real gains and growth! I realize these are BOLD statements and Questions on REAL Issues, BUT, thats why I come here! "Where are all the 250 lb Testimonials............" p.s. I Love Juicin In any case. It gives me a psyycological PUMP!!!! FREAKY PHYSIQUE IS WHAT I SEEK!!!