Thread: Saturated receptors
04-10-2003, 01:40 AM #1New Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
If you never did any juice for the rest of your life, would the receptors start to get clean again. And your strength go back into the natural relm? Considering that when people are off they still may have Deca running through them until the next cylce or for a year afterwards. How long is it until you can truely consider yourself off. And aside from aging making you a little bit weaker as time goes on. How long til the AS's effects are totally gone or are ya still gonna have the gains and strength?
04-10-2003, 07:22 AM #2
Deca will not run in your system for a year. It can be detected sometimes as long as a year later on a blood test but it is no longer occupying receptors for that kind of duration. Yes, given the proper cleanout time receptors will clear but you will still never be as sensitive as you were on say your first cycle.
04-10-2003, 07:32 AM #3Originally posted by Boxer101
Yes, given the proper cleanout time receptors will clear but you will still never be as sensitive as you were on say your first cycle.
I know most go by the saying 'Time on = time off' but my *guess* is that all your receptors haven't recovered during the time off. I'm guessing because I can't find any evidence. Maybe after a six month break your receptors are totally clean, refreshed and just as sensitive as they were before you started juicing.
04-11-2003, 09:16 AM #4
Now this is what I like, an intelligent and tactful disagreement instead of some peckerwood just writing WRONG!!! and giving no response.
Here is an article I swiped from Nuclear Nutrition, it was written by Trevor Smith. Nuclear Nutrition was originally Biohazard US before splitting from the whole Biohazard UK group.
Clearing the Receptors
By Trevor L. Smith
The following information is for entertainment purposes only...Nuclear Nutrition does not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drug. No liability is assumed by Nuclear Nutrition
A lot has been said in regards to clearing the receptors and I thought now would be a good time to delve into this subject and simplify things.
Basically, one must view the receptor sites as parking spaces.
Envision a slew of parking spaces that are all empty. Now we are going to call these parking spaces your receptor sites and we shall call steroids the cars. Now I want you to imagine one of those old 1950's style drive up hamburger stands where the girls come up in roller skates and take your order. Typically one would order a burger, fries and a coke--ah the food of the gods--the waitress would take the order, go bring the information to the cook, who would in-turn make the food and the waitress would then bring the food to you and you would then begin eating which is the whole reason you came to the hamburger stand in the first place.
I think everyone can easily understand that. Which means everyone can easily understand all they need to know about the receptor sites because they do the exact same thing. We will keep with this hamburger stand model and explain what happens when you inject steroids and they begin to go to work.
Remember how I said steroids were like the cars and the parking spaces were like the receptor sites? Well it is basically that simple. When you inject testosterone or any one of it's anabolic or androgenic derivatives, you are sending a whole slew of "cars" into your system. Now these "cars" are on a mission--just like you would be if you were hungry and heading to a hamburger stand. They have orders to place with the cells, but before they can place them they must first find a parking space.
Now let's say you have never used steroids before. If this were the case, it would be very much like a hamburger stand that was having a grand opening....lots and lots of empty parking spaces waiting for cars to fill them up and place their orders. The steroids (cars) enter the system and come to a brand new hamburger stand called your cells. Now these cells have never previously been open to the boat-load of anabolics that are now present in the system because they previously only dealt with what your body naturally produced. However, there are lots of extra parking spaces that can be utilized and so the steroids park themselves into these spaces.
Once they are parked a "waitress" called CYCLICl AMP literally crosses the cellular membrane which is totally impenetrably to anything else and takes the order from the steroid . The order is quite simple: Build More Muscle!!
The "waitress" then crosses back through the cellular membrane and brings the order to the "cook" called the Nucleus who begins to fill it by ordering its helpers called Ribosomes to produce muscle protein.. Now different steroids will have slightly different orders in that some may have a bigger order for the cook to fill--such as testosterone. The thing you have to realize is that a lot of times, after the order is placed, the steroid does not necessarily leave the parking space and make it available to other steroids.....it will often sit in the parking space even though it is no longer sending orders to the "waitress" to bring to the "cook", and this is where the problem of "DOWN-REGULATION" comes in. You see even if you send in more and more fresh new "cars" to occupy the receptor spaces, if they are already taken up by old "dead cars" you are shit out of luck.....
This is why you do not continually grow by injecting bigger and bigger doses of steroids. THERE ARE A LIMITED NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES. Now it would not be so bad if all the parking spaces were taken by "cars" that were sending orders to the cook, because that is when you grow. The problem is when there are "cars" that are no longer sending orders and on top of that have dead batteries which is preventing them from exiting the receptors parking space.
This is what the whole point of this article is....TOWING AWAY ALL THE DEAD "CARS" FROM THE RECEPTOR SITES PARKING SPACES AS TO FREE THEM UP FOR NEW, FRESH, HUNGRY "CARS" TO OCCUPY THEM...This will result in new muscle mass!
O.K. Trevor, I am with you so far, but what the fuck can I do about it?
The answer is ...PLENTY!
First and foremost, is to plan sensible courses. This is why I am an advocate of short courses designed in such a fashion as to have all drugs out of the system by the end of the cycle and then allow for a 3-4 week off time in which you are totally clean. If you stay on these monster 4-6 month courses, you just wind up screwing yourself and requiring that much longer of an off period. The longer you are on, the more the body recognizes that there is "too much" in the system and will begin to take counter measures. And the longer you are on, the more "dead cars" you will have sitting in the receptor parking spaces which means NO MORE GROWING!
Now with this in mind, how can we help get the cars out of there?
Well WE actually cannot, but the body can and will. Basically as time goes by, the body will free up the parking spaces just like a tow truck would remove a dead car from a parking space. However, you are at the mercy of time in this situation which is why it is important to utilize short courses that will cause less disturbance in the system, less "dead cars" in the receptor spaces and therefore less time needed for the body to remove them and free up the spaces.
That being said, it should be noted that even short course will pile up "dead cars" after a while and you should give yourself an extended clean out of 2 months at least once a year.
But Trevor, isn't there anything I can do to help speed the process?
Once again the answer is yes!
You can help speed the process up dramatically by increasing your metabolic rate...Speeding up the metabolic rate is akin to hiring extra tow trucks to clear out all those "dead cars" that are occupying the receptor sites!
Have you ever know a person who was much, much fatter than you and yet ate half as much?
These poor bastards think they were given the genetic shaft and try every diet fad imaginable only to stay fat. Their problem no longer lies in their eating habits--which is ironic--; it lies in their metabolism, which basically was shut down due to the excess eating and lack of exercise that got them fat in the first place. Once you understand this, you can easily control your weight for the rest of your life. But what the fuck does this have to due with steroid receptor sites?
The same thing I would prescribe someone whose metabolism has shut down due to obesity, is the same thing I would prescribe someone who's receptor sites are all clogged and is no longer making progress....INCREASE THE METABOLIC RATE!!
04-11-2003, 09:25 AM #5
(sorry, just had to.... hehe)
04-11-2003, 09:32 AM #6
Good post bro got a little confused but i understand now (had to read it 2x) =)
04-11-2003, 09:48 AM #7Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- land of the cottonheads(F
You also have to remember that AS bind to tissue receptors. If a certain AS binds to muscle tissue you'll get a build up in those tissues AND when you build muscle you also add new receptors to that new tissue! So when your off cycle and you continue to workout and build more muscle tissue you'll have more receptors for the AS to bind to on your next cycle!! Different AS bind to different tissues, some bind to muscle tissue some bind to brain, liver, kidney tissue. Now that doesn,t mean that those tissues will get bigger but they can cause serious complications ( one main reason to get blood work done). Another way at looking at is that even though the parking lot is full, new spots are continuesly being added however a break is more than warranted to clean out the lot.
04-11-2003, 09:59 AM #8
Boxer, I think you've posted that article before - I read it the first time around.
The article gives a good, easy to understand, description of how the receptors work. It also explains why the receptors need time to clear. But is the article based on fact? Is Trevor's knowledge based on fact?
I'm not trying to be difficult. I just like to do a lot of research until I can come to my own conclusions. I'm planning to start my second cycle soon and I'm going by time on=time off even though I'm not wholly convinced it's enough time off.
I guess what I want to see is documentation produced as a result of medical trials showing how saturated the receptors become, how soon and how long it takes for them to clear. Anyone got such evidence?
04-11-2003, 11:34 AM #9
Its cool, Fed you aren't being difficult at all. I welcome a polite disagreement, its the only way we can dispell the myths and FRBS (frequently repeated bull shit) which plagues this field.
I think Trevors article is based on his own research. This was something I read years ago that helped me get a better understanding. I do not have any medical documentation to determine how long receptors will remain "clogged" so to speak. I think it is fair to say though that everyone is going to be different based on such things mentioned in the article like metabolism. I also think what righton said is correct. You and I differ on opposite ends on this topic Fed, while you believe time on = time off is under exagerated I believe it is a figure that has been over exagerated. I guess maybe you and I should do some searches through medline and see what we can find out. Ultimately this is a good topic and the truth benefits everyone.
I dont remember ever posting this article here, but in my opinion its a good read and helps simplify things for those who are just starting to get a basic understanding.
Last edited by Boxer101; 04-11-2003 at 11:37 AM.
04-11-2003, 12:24 PM #10Associate Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
There is no such thing as receptor saturation. It works in reverse. Receptors tend to upregulate. I know, it sounds weird, but that is what we know. Deca metabolites are detectable for up to a year and a half, but deca itself is no longer active by then.
04-11-2003, 06:16 PM #11
Boxer - what influenced your belief that you don't need as much time off as time on? I'm guessing you're going by personal experience. Do you have any anecdotal evidence that supports your belief? I'd like to come over to the dark side (as it means I'd be happy to squeeze in another cycle this year) but I need to be convinced.
Sigmund - I've come across the 'upregulate' theory before but can't really remember the explanation. Care to expand? I'll do a search too to get myself back up to speed on this theory.
04-11-2003, 07:51 PM #12
I don't buy that recpetors down regulate like that either... it's an old theory that seems to get booted farther and farther out the back door every year. That article is very colorful but what are the authors credentials? Does he have a doctorate or a known in the industry - I have never heard of him... anyone? I am not trying to shoot down the post - but I am just trying to stop from passing old info that is no longer supported by science. Don't believe everything on the Internet.. anyone can have a Web page.
Your body consistently turns over new proteins and rebuilds itself. Your entire muscle system is continuely rebuilt very frequently. The biceps you can look at today are not composed of the same fibers in 6 months from now. I don't know how long a recpetor actually lives in your body before it is replaced by a new one - but becoming dirty or like a "broken car" - I don't think so.
Androgen receptors are bound to the anabolic hormones while on cycle and the results from one cycle to the next are based on your available receptors. The fact that your first cycle is typically the best is completely coincidental.
And your body [your androgen receptors] is exposed to endogenous androgens every day of your life, natural or synthetic - but while on an extreme supply by taking exogenous, and sometimes foreign hormones, your endocrine system tries to fight it eventually... trying to return to normal homeostatis. Which is felt post cycle when you remove the exogenous hormones and get the post cycle crash - LH stimulators boost back up natural androgen levels.
BTW - as I understand it - tiny metabolites of nandrolone can settle in lipids for a long time and it can be detected many months down the line (especially when burning bodyfat) mainly because nandrolone is not a naturally occuring compound in your body. It's easy to pick out.
04-11-2003, 07:53 PM #13
funny I just put up a post similar to this one
04-11-2003, 08:03 PM #14Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2002
- London Baby!
Damn warrior, no wonder you are a vet...GREAT INFO!
04-11-2003, 08:14 PM #15
Here's another thread we had going about a week ago on the difference between androgenic and anabolic , as well as downregulation: A friggin recepter question for ya scientists out there
I find these topics VERY interesting - for the most part because the use of AAS on athletes is not only, not mainstream - but deemed "unethical" by many. Usually bodybuilders know more about anabolic steroids on than many common medical professionals.
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)