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  1. #1
    flexshack is offline Member
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    okay, need to clear up the controversy over anavar

    okay everyone, i need someone with proof or some kind of studies done to clear up this controversy over anavar . first of all, read this anavar profile from the main home page. here is the link: http://anabolicreview.com/showdrugprof.php?id=18
    (sorry, don't know how to make it a clickable link so just open a new window from the file menu and type the exact address in as shown). now that you have read it, you may already know what my questions are. one, is that it states that at even a high dosage this compound does not influence the body's own testosterone production. To make this clear: Oxandrolone does not suppress the body's own hormone pro-duction. The reason is that it does not have a negative feedback mechanism on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, meaning that during the intake of Oxandrolone, unlike during the intake of most anabolic steroids , the testes signal the hypo-thalamus not to reduce or to stop the release of GnRH (gonadot-ropin releasing hormone) and LHRH Luteinizing hormon releas-ing hormone). This special feature of Oxandrolone can be explained by the fact that the substance is not converted into estrogen Oxandrolone (Anavar), when given to normal men in high doses does not reduce the seminal volume or count, nor can it be converted (aromatized) into estrogen. now with this stated, please tell me why so many still insist on taking clomid post cycle?? my second question is why do so many insist on having anti-e's on hand when on var even though this document also insists that at NO, that's right, NO dose of var will aromatize to estrogen?? for what? i don't see the point. unless this whole profile is garbage and holds no validity whatsoever, i really am confused. can someone who really knows the deal with anavar please inform me and all others interested? vets, mods, or anyone with legit and backed info. please respond. no offense to anyone, but i am not really looking for opinions here. just the hard cold facts. thanks.
    flex

  2. #2
    flexshack is offline Member
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    btw, forget about my statement underneath the link. i just realized that once i clicked on the post button, it automatically turned it into a clickable link.

  3. #3
    BIG-G's Avatar
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    im interested on feedback from this as well,,,,

  4. #4
    nj_'s Avatar
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    nj_ is offline Senior Member
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    Var has been shown to cause HPTA shutdown even at extremely low doses (5-10mg/day). You DO need clomid after a var cycle like it or not because your natural test WILL be shutdown since you need to run 40-50mg/ED at least to get some good results. That article on the main page is very out of date. As for running anti-e's with your Ox, I'd just have some nolvadex on hand, some people can experience gyno symptoms from altering their natural hormone balance. Although its very unlikely, you're better safe than sorry. Here's a study to prove Ox suppresses the HPTA.

    1: Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16 Related Articles, Links


    Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

    Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

    Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

    OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial. PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin , SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures. RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.

    Publication Types:
    Clinical Trial
    Randomized Controlled Trial

    PMID: 9135704 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

  5. #5
    big N's Avatar
    big N is offline Anabolic Member
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    it proven t6hat even 2.5 m,g of var will supress the hpta ,the info u have is very old and outdated ,clomid is a muct post ant ies i highly doubt u will need.

  6. #6
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    big N either had a few too many beers or needs to put the bong down sorry bro had to make fun of the typos.

  7. #7
    big N's Avatar
    big N is offline Anabolic Member
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    that 2 fotter get me all the time strtin my sat morning out right!

  8. #8
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    Like said above anavar will suppress HPTA function but in most cases doesn't seem to shut function down completely. The suppression however is so severe that recovery is a must. You should not need an anti-e with real anavar. It cannot convert to estrogen.

  9. #9
    Gigi83 is offline Junior Member
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    Yes, like Rickson says, anavar will shut you down, but generally, not completely and harder as aromatizable and progestinic steroids . But also it depends from dosage and cycle lenghts.

    JM2C

  10. #10
    flexshack is offline Member
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    okay, so far i am hearing that it is now known that anavar will suppress but not necessarily shut you down completely. if this is true than what would be an adequate clomid therapy (dosage and length and frequency etc.) post cycle? maybe the clomid therapies for other roids are too much for post cycle of anavar and not really needed at those dosages? what i mean is maybe the traditional clomid therapy is overkill for just an anavar recovery. to be more specific, the cycle would consist of ONLY 30mg of var daily. that's it. it would last for 10 weeks. if this still isn't enough info, tell me and i will try to dispense whatever else you need to know in order to answer the question. thanks.
    flex

    p.s.--btw, if you were wondering why i am choosing such a light "nothing cycle" than i will briefly explain. i want purely strength gains with mininal mass gains and anavar fits this description perfectly. anyway, thanks again.

  11. #11
    flexshack is offline Member
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    Lightbulb

    quote from nj_: "That article on the main page is very out of date."

    hey, if this is true than maybe we should inform whoever takes care of the main page about it? we shouldn't have illegitimate old outdated info. on the page imo. is ptbyjason in charge of that? maybe he doesn't realize this?

  12. #12
    BIG-G's Avatar
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    I had planned on running something along side my 10-14 weeks off starting at the time of clomid therapy. An anavar bridge at a lower dosadge. But i may now stick with the 10mg dbol breakfast since i learned that anavar can suppress ur HPTA. (much cheaper anyway).

  13. #13
    nj_'s Avatar
    nj_
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    Originally posted by flexshack
    okay, so far i am hearing that it is now known that anavar will suppress but not necessarily shut you down completely. if this is true than what would be an adequate clomid therapy (dosage and length and frequency etc.) post cycle? maybe the clomid therapies for other roids are too much for post cycle of anavar and not really needed at those dosages? what i mean is maybe the traditional clomid therapy is overkill for just an anavar recovery. to be more specific, the cycle would consist of ONLY 30mg of var daily. that's it. it would last for 10 weeks. if this still isn't enough info, tell me and i will try to dispense whatever else you need to know in order to answer the question. thanks.
    flex

    p.s.--btw, if you were wondering why i am choosing such a light "nothing cycle" than i will briefly explain. i want purely strength gains with mininal mass gains and anavar fits this description perfectly. anyway, thanks again.
    100mg ED of Clomid for 2 weeks would probably recover you fully. The way I see it, its better to do a little more extra than to try to skimp on clomid therapy, its not like clomid is expensive. Doing clomid for an extra week or whatever isn't going to hurt anything.

  14. #14
    flexshack is offline Member
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    Originally posted by nj_


    100mg ED of Clomid for 2 weeks would probably recover you fully. The way I see it, its better to do a little more extra than to try to skimp on clomid therapy, its not like clomid is expensive. Doing clomid for an extra week or whatever isn't going to hurt anything.

    thanks nj_. i appreciate your advice and plan on using clomid now. but, i recently reread cycleon's post (in the educational section of the anabolics forum) about clomid questions and answers. it is actually originally from the iron game and he said that it is wise to take 300mg on the first day of therapy, 100mg for the next 10 days, and finish up with 50mg for the last 10 days. now, this seems like it would be overkill for recovery from just an all anavar cycle like mine. so what i am asking is if you still agree with your first advice of 100mg daily for 2 weeks OR do you now agree with the heavier therapy recommendation instead? also, if you read that clomid post, it gives recommended starting points for clomid therapy depending on what will last longest in one's system from their cycle. however, it has left out anavar and i don't know how long to wait before starting clomid therapy. can you also help me with this? thank you again.
    flex
    Last edited by flexshack; 04-21-2003 at 02:02 AM.

  15. #15
    flexshack is offline Member
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    oh and one more thing. is it wise to take milk thistle or any other liver protectant while on var? b/c i would be taking it for 10 weeks @ 30mg/day. just being cautious and curious. thanks.
    flex

  16. #16
    nj_'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by flexshack
    oh and one more thing. is it wise to take milk thistle or any other liver protectant while on var? b/c i would be taking it for 10 weeks @ 30mg/day. just being cautious and curious. thanks.
    flex
    It wouldn't hurt to take milk thistle but 30mg/ED is kind of a low dose. Most people run 40-50mg unless you're running BTG in which case 30mg/ED would be sufficient. A friend of mine ran 100mg/ED for 10 weeks with no problems. As for the clomid, its your choice, like I said above, 2 weeks would probably recover you but it isn't like clomid is expensive or its going to hurt you by running it a week longer. You can start clomid 1-2 days after your last anavar administration, the half-life of anavar is pretty short.

  17. #17
    flexshack is offline Member
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    Originally posted by nj_


    It wouldn't hurt to take milk thistle but 30mg/ED is kind of a low dose. Most people run 40-50mg unless you're running BTG in which case 30mg/ED would be sufficient. A friend of mine ran 100mg/ED for 10 weeks with no problems. As for the clomid, its your choice, like I said above, 2 weeks would probably recover you but it isn't like clomid is expensive or its going to hurt you by running it a week longer. You can start clomid 1-2 days after your last anavar administration, the half-life of anavar is pretty short.

    thanks again nj_. oh and btw, was your friends cycle an all anavar cycle also? if so, does he have any before and after photos? i have always wanted to see exactly how anavar really works (in terms of physique or appearance) by itself. thanks,
    flex

  18. #18
    Big Rush's Avatar
    Big Rush is offline The Juice Man
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    Originally posted by flexshack



    thanks again nj_. oh and btw, was your friends cycle an all anavar cycle also? if so, does he have any before and after photos? i have always wanted to see exactly how anavar really works (in terms of physique or appearance) by itself. thanks,
    flex
    bump....good question

  19. #19
    nj_'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by flexshack



    thanks again nj_. oh and btw, was your friends cycle an all anavar cycle also? if so, does he have any before and after photos? i have always wanted to see exactly how anavar really works (in terms of physique or appearance) by itself. thanks,
    flex
    No, he had DNP /Fina/Prop in there as well. He said he didn't bother taking photos.

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