cycle without TEST?

**D Mc C** · 04-28-2003, 06:24 PM

2nd cycle at 20
i will be starting my second cyle after my 20th birthday (this november). i have already done a deca \win cycle at which ended 1 week ago. my stats will be (in november) 5'4 aprox 165lbs at 11% bf. training for 3 years. i want to do a bulking cycle and would just like to know where to begin my research. i really want to stay away form test until i am 21 or 22. What is a good stack without test for me to begin my research. any opinions or comments (except about my age) are welcom
Thanks bros!

**Epoc** · 04-28-2003, 06:30 PM

Hold on, you want to do a bulking cycle without test?!? Test should be a building block to start from when making a cycle esp. with a bulking cycle.

**Chach** · 04-28-2003, 06:37 PM

bro, i would highly recomend that you do not do a cycle without test, epoc is right, and test should be the base for every cycle...and why not test, why do you wanna stay away from it till 21 or 22?

**kaoz&zen** · 04-28-2003, 06:38 PM

well, bulking can be successfully accomplished without test, but many will advise not to do it. And running test you will be alot happier with your results.
Now i'm guessing that closure of growth plates is your main reason for not wanting to run test, correct? Now, i was led to believe that progesterone hormones (17alpha-hydroxyprogesterone?) will aslos cause growth plate closure, but I oculd be wrong. maybe you should look into this a little.

**symatech** · 04-28-2003, 06:42 PM

bro no offense but your logic is all wrong. and i know you dont want comments about your age but I cant resist.

first off you started juicing too early. Then you did a deca /winny cycle which is yet another contradiction. Bulk or cut, choose 1. you cant have your cake and eat it too im afraid. Like Epoc said, bulking without test is not the wisest of choices. At your age it is very easy to screw up your hormones with AAS. If i were you, i wouldnt do another cycle until I had at least another 2 years of training naturally under my belt. Thats my advice. whether you heed it or not is your choice. Im not criticizing you I am meerly offering my thoughts.

However, I fully support your research. By all means learn as much as you can now but hold off on the AAS. The search button is a great too, as are the educational forums. You may also wish to look into the drug profiles on the main page. This is a great place to start your research...good luck.

**D Mc C** · 04-28-2003, 06:58 PM

thanks for your info guys. my logic for no test is that because i have done only 1 cycle then i can still make good gains off of "weaker" steriods . When i can't make good gains off of non-test based AS then i can add test to make large gains again. i mean your first few times drinking you didn't pound a 40 of JD did you? You probably just a had a few beers. U see where im coming form? But this is just a theroy so tear it to pieces if im worng. thanks for your help. Back to the Educational forum for me!
PS now i know you can't have your cake and eat it too

more opinions are welcome!

**symatech** · 04-28-2003, 07:08 PM

well I believe your theory is incorrect. again no offense. Test is the building block of all muscle in your body. Its essential...its THE muscle builder. Ask around, you will be hard pressed to find a member on this board who openly advocates a cycle without test.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 04-28-2003, 07:47 PM

non-test based AS

no such thing, they are all derived in some way. Look up the chem structures, youll notice all have the same 4 ringed members. Functional groups change their functionality.

**pjacobi34** · 04-28-2003, 09:18 PM

I think you can still get good gains without test. I've done 2 cycles of deca only. The first I gained about 15-20 lbs of lean muscle. The second cycle I gained about 12-15 lbs of lean muscle. I think I had great gains because of my diet and good workout habits. Everybody responds differently, so you have to find what works best for you. If you were going to do a deca cycle again, I would up the dose a little because your body gets used to it.

**Cock Diesel155** · 04-28-2003, 09:51 PM

If your gonna do another cycle I suggest running Test but at a low dose if you are weary. Run it around 250mgs a week.. Many bro's on here will strongly disagree with me on this, but I am running QV Enanthate right now at 250mgs/wk and am getting solid results. Of course my diet is on track which is the most important thing.. My next cycle is gonna be 500mgs/wk of Test, but this is my first and I wanted to run a lower dose. I am very glad I did.. So let us know on what you decide.. Also if you want to research on this try "low dose cycles" or look under "Bask8kace".. He has posted many times on low doses..

**Warrior** · 04-29-2003, 12:18 AM

I see no medical reason to run testosterone in every cycle. In fact, this is why anabolic -androgenic steroids are made... safer more anabolic alternatives to testosterone.

There is no doubt that testosterone is a good mass builder but i don't think a rule should be testosterone in every cycle for most people. People over 35 years old would probably benefit the most from testosterone use in every cycle since they are on the downhill with their endogenous levels.

There is one solid reason to always run testosterone and that is to help with sexual disfunction with large amounts of nandrolone . Testosterone triggers receptors to increase libido in men and woman... Nandrolone, a 19-Nortestosterone has negative effects on sex drive.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 04-29-2003, 12:50 AM

Testosterone should be included in every cycle. There is medical reason, Im very shocked to see that it was stated there wasnt. Spermatogenesis is a quick and easy one of the top of my head. Libido is the obvious.

Quick run on medline

Bone tensile strength
Energy
Protien synthesis regulation and structure regulation
Cognitive brain functions

The big and obvious, much more tired and no libido. Not including a minimal baseling (even 100mg would be enough) is foolish. And yes, I have tried it myself.

**Warrior** · 04-29-2003, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate
Testosterone should be included in every cycle. There is medical reason, Im very shocked to see that it was stated there wasnt.

I said personally, I know of no medical reasoning for "testosterone must be used in every cycle"... aside from the reasons I sugested above.

Increasing bone mineral density and bone strength, increased pain tollerence, mental intensity, increased protein synthesis - these are anabolic effects of AAS in general.

**D Mc C** · 04-29-2003, 10:56 AM

im sorta liking Cock Diesel155's idea of 250mg test a week. i think i will do a little research on a deca (about 400-500 mgs a week), test (250mg a week) and 25mgs d-bol ED.
thanks for your help guys. please keep this thread active

**Slangin Roids** · 04-29-2003, 11:16 AM

Which test do you guys reccomend with taking Deca 200 and how often? I'm 2 weeks into Deca(taking it with Proviron for side effect precausions) and not on any sort of test..

please fill me in

**BUYLONGTERM** · 04-29-2003, 09:10 PM

Doing a cycle without Test is like....Having a penis without a hard on...JK...I couldn't imagine doing a cycle without it,and I'm doing only 300mg a week...

**Slangin Roids** · 04-30-2003, 01:43 PM

Please tell me which test would be best to take and how often? I read in another thread that if i'm taking Deca I need to get my test dosage higher then what my deca is. Which means i'll need 200+ of test..

some insight would be appreciated. Thanks

**Cock Diesel155** · 04-30-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Slangin Roids
Please tell me which test would be best to take and how often? I read in another thread that if i'm taking Deca I need to get my test dosage higher then what my deca is. Which means i'll need 200+ of test..

some insight would be appreciated. Thanks

Sounds to me like you need to read a lot more threads.. Probably over 1,000,000 threads regarding test on this board. Happy Reading..

P.S.- Next time you might not wanna hijack people's threads.. Some bros get pissed about that..

**Slangin Roids** · 04-30-2003, 08:36 PM

cock diesel, "hijacking" a thread is better than starting my own, besides it atleast ups the thread back up for the creator. I've been looking through the threads but people only say "test" and don't specify which test -- that is why I'm asking. The board is to ask questions right?

**Big Rush** · 04-30-2003, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Cock Diesel155
If your gonna do another cycle I suggest running Test but at a low dose if you are weary. Run it around 250mgs a week.. Many bro's on here will strongly disagree with me on this, but I am running QV Enanthate right now at 250mgs/wk and am getting solid results. Of course my diet is on track which is the most important thing.. My next cycle is gonna be 500mgs/wk of Test, but this is my first and I wanted to run a lower dose. I am very glad I did.. So let us know on what you decide.. Also if you want to research on this try "low dose cycles" or look under "Bask8kace".. He has posted many times on low doses..

I agree with the "low maitanence dose of test" theory, especially for those who are weary of bloat or any other test side-effect....