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  1. #1
    Kurt is offline New Member
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    Problem 1-No ANTI-E for DECA GYNO to be found

    As per the wise advise from members on the forum I am buying Anti E for possible Deca Gyno[Deca only cycle]
    And after intially stocking up with NOVA I have discovered with your help that this will not do anything for DECA GYNO as it is Progestorone based and not estrogen.
    Still trying to get my head around how a hormone that does not actually exist in a male body can actually create itself.
    Especially if it is created in a womans womb or ovary.
    [So I read somewhere on the forum]
    Contacted my source who contacted the pharmacy with the names of BROMO ,CABERGOLINE and they have never heard of them.
    This is the same pharmacy we get the Nova and Clomid from.
    We even tried to explain to him the application and he could not help.
    There has got be something available otherwise there ould be thousands of local AS users walking around in our fine country with bitch tits.


    OH DEAR-Any other ANTI E or other options you may have would be appreciated!!
    As you say,just in case and I MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT WANT TO BE CAUGHT WITHOUT SOME REMEDY SHOULD GYNO STRIKE!
    Is there no way that NOVA does not work as 99% of the guys in SA using Deca[the most popular AS] have NOVA on standby.

    kURT39

  2. #2
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Look for Pergolide(Generic) aslo known as Permax(Brand Name)

  3. #3
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
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    isn't Gyno VERY VERY rare for Deca ? From what i've read and talking to other bro's I've gotten that impression..

  4. #4
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Originally posted by Slangin Roids
    isn't Gyno VERY VERY rare for Deca? From what i've read and talking to other bro's I've gotten that impression..
    It is, the "fina/Deca gyno" anti drugs are prolactin inhibitors. Deca and Fina can cause an increase in prolactin secretion which lowers test and 1. can leave estrogen at an elevated level before the body lowers it's production to compensate the test decrease
    or
    2. Test is lowered by Prolactin which in turn lowers estrogen and at that point, an increase in progesterone can arrise.

    A controversial debate is whether or not Progesterone is a feminizing hormone. Which after more and more research, it seems that it isn't allthough the inflammation of the breast tissue can occur from prolactin build up and I believe progesterone build up as well

  5. #5
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
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    Pheedno, I'm on proviron right now going every other day, is that enough?

  6. #6
    arthurb999's Avatar
    arthurb999 is offline Anabolic Member
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    In theory winnie should work. RU-486 will do the trick... tough to find though. The "educational threads" section has a lot of good info...

    Check this out:
    http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...&threadid=1870

  7. #7
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
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    Cabergoline is the shit! It will blow the others out of the water! .25mg E3D is plenty.

    Its great for sex drive off cycle too...

  8. #8
    Kurt is offline New Member
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    Billy,
    Any other name for Cabergoline?
    Need to make sure something is available should I experience anything Deca Gyno related.

    Pheedno,I am assuming this whole process can take place irrelevant to Deca dosage or is it more common with higher dosages and a possible longer cycle?

  9. #9
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
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    dostinex

  10. #10
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Originally posted by Kurt
    Billy,


    Pheedno,I am assuming this whole process can take place irrelevant to Deca dosage or is it more common with higher dosages and a possible longer cycle?
    Whats your dosages of all the compounds your using? It will be dependant to ratios of those(most of the time)

  11. #11
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
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    please give me some insight on my last question pheedno

  12. #12
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Originally posted by Slangin Roids
    please give me some insight on my last question pheedno
    Sorry about that bro, whats your cycle?

  13. #13
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
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    Pheedno, I'm taking Deca 200 with Proviron (every other day). My source tells me(and from what i've read on this site) that Deca and an anti estrogen isn't really necessary -- however I'm taking proviron every other day incase(and to block water retention). Does that sound like enough to prevent shit?

    Thanks for your help

  14. #14
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
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    Its not...

    Dostinex I run .25mg E3D

    If I ran oh maybe over 800 or progestrogenic related compounds, I would probally goto .50mg E3D.

  15. #15
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
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    Originally posted by Slangin Roids
    Pheedno, I'm taking Deca 200 with Proviron (every other day). My source tells me(and from what i've read on this site) that Deca and an anti estrogen isn't really necessary -- however I'm taking proviron every other day incase(and to block water retention). Does that sound like enough to prevent shit?

    Thanks for your help
    How much provirion? 25mg,50mg...75mg?

    remember proviron is an anti-aromotasis, which it will stop most conversion of test and test derivitives into estrogens...
    Also remember that progesterone can only be synthisized in the body from cholesterol there is no direct conversion from aas derivitive "deca" into progesterone. Deca really only converts into estrogens with high doses or long term use... But your "HPTA" will shut down hard (one of the gyno links)
    a quote
    "The Steroid Family Tree begins with cholesterol, some of which is converted to the hormone pregnenolone. Pregnenolone, in turn, begets both progesterone and DHEA. Some progesterone and some DHEA are both converted into androstenedione, a major precursor of both estrone and testosterone . Testosterone, the best-known of the "male hormones," can be converted to the "female hormone" estradiol."


    There are weaker and stroger estrogens in our body... And males and females produce progesterone thru cholesterol synthesis.

    The gyno thing has been a debate for sometime and as most would agree your looking at a side effect of HPTA shut down and a pituitary misreading elevated estrogens along with a stronger sysnthesis of progesterone... my take is since the gonads are out of commission the body is reading the elevated estrogens and inturn synthesizing progesterone for testoserone conversion. But specific glands get unusual hormone signals...

    My experience will say if you dont have gyno already and want to take extra procaution...go with an antiaromotasis like your proviron at 25mg to 75mg ed
    or liquidex...
    An anti-esrtrogen meaning a estrogen blocker @ receptor will cause a build of estrogens that will make gains more difficult with an anabolic like deca.
    does that make sense?

  16. #16
    Kurt is offline New Member
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    I am also on a DECA cycle only.
    Is there some benchmark as to when Deca Gyno would start to show itself?
    Or can it happen anytime[including after cycle?]
    Kurt39

  17. #17
    Slangin Roids's Avatar
    Slangin Roids is offline Junior Member
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    mmaximus25, thanks for all the information. It's guys like you that keep the board enteresting and the board educated

    :/:

  18. #18
    Innervision's Avatar
    Innervision is offline Associate Member
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    Kurt Id worry more about deca dick then gyno. Bromocriptine is effective but unlike some other anti's, it's not recommended to take "preventively" only when it's needed because of its strong shitty side effects.

  19. #19
    DeepZenPill is offline New Member
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    Deca gyno is very rare for dosages below 400mg/week. People get problems when running it in excess of 400mg or combined with test. You might never get gyno from test or deca alone, but progesterone combined with estrogen increases your chances greatly. I would recommend going with the dostinex (cabergoline) and using a conservative dose of deca.

  20. #20
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Originally posted by DeepZenPill
    , but progesterone combined with estrogen increases your chances greatly.
    You cant have excess progesterone with excess estrogen. They are produced in ratio of each other. Higher level of one means a lower level of the other.

  21. #21
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
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    Originally posted by mmaximus25


    "The Steroid Family Tree begins with cholesterol, some of which is converted to the hormone pregnenolone. Pregnenolone, in turn, begets both progesterone and DHEA. Some progesterone and some DHEA are both converted into androstenedione, a major precursor of both estrone and testosterone . Testosterone, the best-known of the "male hormones," can be converted to the "female hormone" estradiol."

    The gyno thing has been a debate for sometime and as most would agree your looking at a side effect of HPTA shut down and a pituitary misreading elevated estrogens along with a stronger sysnthesis of progesterone... my take is since the gonads are out of commission the body is reading the elevated estrogens and inturn synthesizing progesterone for testoserone conversion. But specific glands get unusual hormone signals...
    Kind of an extended theory

    Estrogens are in an elevated state due to HPTA shut down, Progesterone begins to be synthesized from pregneolone to convert into testosterone to better the estro/test ratio. But since a weekly or daily injection or test or test derivative is introduced the test conversion is not needed and the progesterone goes from test immediately into estradiol. Causing a cycle of negative feed back issues with other glands. (That’s why estro-blockers and anti-aromotizers are needed along with post cycle therapy )
    But I believe estrogen isn't a problem until the test ratio isn't met properly...
    In my opinion Progesterone is a negative feed back hormone that balances testosterone and estrogens by converting into test or converting into test then estrogen.

  22. #22
    OVG's Avatar
    OVG
    OVG is offline Associate Member
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    So if I'm taking 400 mg of Deca a week and 500 mg. Sust a week, just Nolvadex and Liquidex won't help? I need permax or pergolde now? Or should I just stick with these at this level?

  23. #23
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
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    Liquidex and Nolvadex are the administered precautions and preventions of gyno and other sides.
    There are preventative drugs and treatment drugs when it comes to gyno. EX nolva,proviron :help prevent---bromo, dopergin: help treat
    Your fine with liquidex and Nolva. You’re higher androgenic /anabolic Sust combined with the higher anabolic/androgenic properties of deca will be high enough to have good gains even with a high estrogen level.
    The problem comes when a blocker or anti-aromo are not taken.

  24. #24
    iron4life79's Avatar
    iron4life79 is offline Retired Moderator
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    ive said this before, and i'll say it one more time..........

    if you have never cycled before, and dont know how susceptible you are to side effects, you better have something handy to combat said sides. i dont care what dose your running of any steroid .
    until you get a good feel for your limits, you better have some protection.
    hell, i know guys that have been in this game for a long damn time, and they still keep nolva, liquidex, and some form of prolactin inhibiting drug handy at all times.
    its a risk that can be avoided........

    peace I4L

  25. #25
    mmaximus25 is offline Senior Member
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    He's right... why take a chance... You may get by some years with no sides but sooner or later maybe sooner it will catch up to you...
    plan cycles... don't just do a cycle...

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