Too high for too long, supraphysiological mini cycle

**kelkel** · 11-17-2012, 06:40 PM

Yes. Exactly what Sworder and I have been saying. Look, we understand it's a hard thing mentally to do. You feel as if your losing gains, etc., but think in the long term. Settle in, get your BW in order for a while then blast when you feel the need.

Re your Bw. A better scale for TSH is .3 - 3.0, not the above scale that many labs still use. It's just to broad. Your T4 is, IMO, on the lower end and sluggish. T4 is the pool from which T3 basically comes from. Look at it like Total T to Free T.

Let your body rest a bit. Maybe even take a break from the gym and give your CNS a break to re-charge. It's a healthy thing to do. You'll be fine man!

kel

**ilovelamp** · 11-17-2012, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

Kelkel is on point. I don't know what other factors come into play(and if they are measurable) when your body is trying to reach stasis by upping cortisol and you supply exogenous testosterone. You are working against your own body by doing that, and I don't think it will yield favorable results with your body composition.

Ahhh, I see what you mean by that now. I had no idea the body would do that, but I guess its all connected which makes sense. Get out of unnatural ranges and the body can do what it needs to before I decide to get back to work. Does this happen with a lot of guys who run supraphysiologic levels on TRT?

**Sworder** · 11-17-2012, 07:08 PM

Well typically people do fine when running 200mg/week Test C, which is high. Something is obviously imbalanced and I think the best solution would be to come down to normal testosterone levels first and get full blood work done. Testosterone has a CNS stimulatory effect and giving your body a break as Kelkel suggested would be beneficial.

**ilovelamp** · 11-17-2012, 07:37 PM

Isn't it also true that it is more individualistic than "200 will get you 2,000" rather 200 mg will only get some guys to 800, and others 600 and others 1,000 and so on and so forth? I spoke with a guy on the ************ forum who said 100 mg a week only got him to 250 ng/dL. 200 put him at 500 ng/dL approximately and finally now at 250 he has levels around 700.

Two to three months time and then some BW. How do you think the basic labs I listed look currently though?

Thanks guys.

**ilovelamp** · 11-18-2012, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Yes. Exactly what Sworder and I have been saying. Look, we understand it's a hard thing mentally to do. You feel as if your losing gains, etc., but think in the long term. Settle in, get your BW in order for a while then blast when you feel the need.

Re your Bw. A better scale for TSH is .3 - 3.0, not the above scale that many labs still use. It's just to broad. Your T4 is, IMO, on the lower end and sluggish. T4 is the pool from which T3 basically comes from. Look at it like Total T to Free T.

Let your body rest a bit. Maybe even take a break from the gym and give your CNS a break to re-charge. It's a healthy thing to do. You'll be fine man!

kel

Thanks for the reassurance, its much needed. The T4 may have something to do with test supressing thyroid function, and then again that's part of the whole reason I need this break. Just out of curiosity (and mainly because you're jacked as shit) are you on TRT, and if so how much and do you cycle in between?

**Sworder** · 11-18-2012, 12:05 AM

You should have seen the avatar he had of his quads! Impressive!

**kelkel** · 11-18-2012, 11:13 AM

Yes, TRT. 60mg x 2 per week. HCG 250 IU M-W-F. No AI needed. Cycle anymore? Not really. Only thing I've done in years is just upping my T to 200 plus 200 Deca . My script is 200 T per week but I only do 120. My doc lets me control my protocol entirely based on trust and my knowledge base. The deca is prescribed as well for joints (2 bottles per year.) Seldom used though.

Thanks for the compliment. I was much larger when I was younger! Old fart now....but thanks.

kel

**ilovelamp** · 11-18-2012, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sworder

You should have seen the avatar he had of his quads! Impressive!

Originally Posted by kelkel

Yes, TRT. 60mg x 2 per week. HCG 250 IU M-W-F. No AI needed. Cycle anymore? Not really. Only thing I've done in years is just upping my T to 200 plus 200 Deca . My script is 200 T per week but I only do 120. My doc lets me control my protocol entirely based on trust and my knowledge base. The deca is prescribed as well for joints (2 bottles per year.) Seldom used though.

Thanks for the compliment. I was much larger when I was younger! Old fart now....but thanks.

kel

Did you try 200 for awhile and start to feel like it was a bit excessive? Are you current levels under 1,000? Sorry for the 20 questions, lol..just like comparisons.

**kelkel** · 11-18-2012, 04:03 PM

Comparing really doesn't work in this game as everyone's metabolism is different, but I do understand. At 120 split per week my level is usually around 1200 or so. Now keep in mind there isn't much, if any trough level when injecting every 3.5 days. When I bumped up to 200 and added the deca it was just what we TRT'ers call a mini blast. There are some on TRT who actually need 200 per week to maintain reasonable physiological levels, but not many IMO. If I would stay steady at 200 then I would have to add an AI. I'm fortunate enough not to need it on or around my normal TRT dosage. My E normally runs low at around 16.

Remember, TRT is a long-term committment with the point being your health. Find your sweet spot with TRT and maximize your health first and foremost. Your overall long term health is far more important than any cycle. Then if your going to blast you'll at least know where exactly to return to.

**ilovelamp** · 11-18-2012, 05:32 PM

Well, that pretty much does it. Thank you very much, both of you. If you don't mind, I'd like to keep you posted during these couple of months in returning to normal and coming back into physiological orbit..lol. Mainly for advice on what to do when I get to that point, if that's okay.

**kelkel** · 11-18-2012, 07:52 PM

More than happy to help! That's what this place is all about.

**Sworder** · 11-18-2012, 08:26 PM

Feel free to PM me if you start another thread you want input on or if you have any questions. You know where to find me

**ilovelamp** · 11-18-2012, 09:37 PM

Thanks guys, wish me luck lol.

**ilovelamp** · 01-07-2013, 07:33 PM

I've been running 100 mg now for about two months now and I'm really starting to think there might be something else going on. Something that maybe the high T did? My appetite has been slowly diminishing over the past few months, to the point where I'm not hungry until around noon and even then its mainly a force feed. Other than that, I feel a little sluggish and have lost a few more pounds. I don't want to think the worst, but unfortunately my mind brings up the possibilities of HIV, cancer, (insert other serious malady here/etc.) and I know its stupid, but I can't help thinking I need to just go in and explain myself. The doc that prescribes the T for me hasn't taken bloods in a very long time. I had an appointment last week and when I explained to him how I was feeling, he said well as long as the testosterone 's good, we dont' need to meet for another six months..without even drawing up a testosterone or E2.

He knows his shit, I just think he's being some what irresponsible with the way my TRT's being monitored. I'm thinking about just going to see a decent gp here and get some real bw done like suggested above. I just don't know how to go about wording what I'm feeling once I get in there. Its either I'm wrong and for some strange reason I shrank a couple sizes, lost weight along with me appetite, and became a different person..or that there's something serious going on and its worth looking into. I don't know if it has any significance, but a year ago my total cholesterol was tested and it came back in the low 90's..which is pretty far down there. Cholesterol does a lot, as I'm sure most of you know, and Hypocholesterolemia has been linked to hyperthyroidism, adrenal insufficiency, liver disease, malabsorbtion, and leukemia..all of which can be serious.

Crazy, or potentially unhealthy?