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  1. #1
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    Arimidex vs Letrozole vs Aromasin??

    Hey, I'm 19YO,165 lb,14% bf and I got low test(due to my very high SHGB and maybe estradiol) I'll pass my blood test next month(they didnt check my estradiol on my last test -_-) I am trying to naturally drop my SHGB(I got plenty of test (26 nmol/L) but free test sucks... I'm at 370 pmol/L) I seems to have a very little gyno, nothing serious and hard to see(for my unexperimented eyes) Anyway.

    I was wondering what's the big difference between each AI?? I heard that some are harder on cholesterol than others...
    I would like to know each specificity of each compared to others plz

    Also I would like to know which one would you recommend me to lower my estradiol just a bit and at what dose? Dont worry I'll wait to have my result back before going this way. That's only because I'm planning to command it as soon as I got my result (if I'm not satisfied of it...).


    Thanks everyone

  2. #2
    MickeyKnox is offline Banned
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    Here's a good piece on AI"'s. NOTE: I am NOT the original author.


    AI’s

    Exemestane (Aromasin)


    Exemestane is a steroidal suicidal Type 1 irreversible aromatase inhibitor. It’s a naturally occurring substance from androstenedione which makes it very similar to formestane, one can call them brothers if they would like. It’s a newer generation AI which shows lots of promising potential as it does not abuse cholesterol as bad as other AI’s have been reported to do so along positive effects on bone mineral density. It also does not lower IGF levels which pretty much all other AI’s with the exception of formestane (raises IGF) lowers them. Since Exemestane is a steroidal AI, it does have some androgenic properties which can lead to some minor strength and size gain along an increase masculinity. The byproduct from the liver called 17-hydroxyexemestane is a metabolite which is created by the reduction of the 17-oxo group by way of the 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase which is responsible for its potent anti-estrogenic properties. Studies suggest Exemestane will block circulating estrogen up to 85% in women and 65% in men within a 12 hour span. When exemestane reaches full blood plasma concentration within the blood, it will block up to 98% of estrogen which means its POTENT. Based on a couple of studies I have read the only AI that can be taken with Novladex to reduce the estrogen that comes from increased testosterone would be Exemestane. Novladex inhibits the effectiveness of arimadex and other AI’s based on this study: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91. I present the study to you good bros so you see that I am not trying pull the wool over your eyes. The suggested use of Aromasin /Exemestane is 25mg to see the 20% decrease in SHBG, 65% decrease in estradiol, and 60% increase in total/ 117% in free testosterone.

    A NOTE: The main difference between Type 1(suicidal) and Type 2(competitive) is that type 1 will deactivate the estrogen and the enzyme will be gone, which means a new aromatase enzyme must be created. In Type 2 AI’s, the AI will compete for the binding site and once the individual stops taking the AI, the effects will come to a hault which can be problematic if you are on or still carry metabolites of a highly aromatizing androgen in your system.

    Arimadex (Anastrozole)


    Anastrozole is a Type 2 non-steroidal competitive aromatase inhibitor (second generation) which functions by blocking the aromatase enzyme (chromosome P450), the key enzyme responsible for the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Without the usage of an AI during an aromatizing cycle there are many unwanted side effects that may occur such as water retention, fat gain and growth of glandular tissue within the breast tissue aka gyno.Estrogen is needed for increased androgen receptor density, increased GH, IGF output, and glucose metabolism/utilization. Competitve reversible aromatse inhibitros do not stop the production or reduce estrogen, but prevent the estrogen from launching its effects by competitively binding up the receptors for estrogen, which is paralyzes estrogen from manifesting it’s tendencies. Unfortunately as explained before, once one stops taking it, the enzyme will continue from where it left at which could potentially lead to an estrogen overload aka “estrogen rebound”. Since Arimadex works is potent at preventing estrogen manifestation, it can plunge cholesterol levels.Estrogen is needed to maintain healthy cholesterol levels which is common sense it is cholesterol derived. This why many people prefer to use SERM’s to control estrogen while on cycle without limiting gains and keeping cholesterol ratios of HDL to LDL in a healther range. If I had to suggest a SERM to use during a cycle, it would definitely be Raloxifene since its more potent than Novla in reducing gyno and does not have much evidence of affecting IGF, plus its less toxic than Novla as well. One other drawback is that Arimadex is really expensive, near the price as exemstane; yet in my opinion nowhere near the value as exemestane. Although, there is no doubt that Arimadex is potent as it does block over 95% of estrogen within peak concentrations, near Letro but not quite that strong.

    Letrozole

    Letrozole ( third generation) is a non steroidal selective third generation aromatse inhibitor which just like Arimadex will not give off androgenic effects. Its very similar to Arimadex which why they both are called Type2 non-sterodial competitive aromatase inhibitor. The main difference between Femara and Arimadex is that Femara is MORE potent. The MAX dosage for this AI is only 2.5mgs, by no means does one ever up the dosage, this will obliterate one’s estrogen by 98-99% within peak concentrations and is detrimental to cholesterol over pronlonged usage. I never recommend it on testosterone since studies suggest that when estrogen is blocked while taking testosterone, HDL (good cholesterol) plummets to unsafe levels. Now the good thing about letro is that if estrogen is starting to irritate the glandular tissue of the breast tissue, letro if presented on time will clear up the issues at hand. For some reason people think that if gyno calcifies; Letro will be able to get rid of it, NOT TRUE, only surgery will get rid of gyno at that point. Be aware of your chest when running any compound as I have seen non-aromatizing compounds cause gyno in some people. Remember when using AAS, you are using an exogenous hormone that is not part of the body’s current chemistry and could cause issues such as gyo. Do not use during PCT as its detrimental to one's libido and lipids, only during cycle and please be careful with it since its extremely anti-estrogenic.
    Last edited by MickeyKnox; 12-26-2012 at 11:18 AM.

  3. #3
    Atomini's Avatar
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    I much prefer Aromasin over the other two common AIs (Arimidex and Letrozole ), and I have mentioned this many times in different threads over the years. Arimidex and Letro don't do exactly the same thing as Aromasin. Aromasin is a suicidal Aromatase Inhibitor. This means that once it has bound to the aromatase enzyme, and thereby deactivated it, that enzyme remains bound to aromatase PERMANENTLY, rendering the enzyme inactive forever. Therefore, you do not end up with estrogen rebound.

    The problem with Arimidex and Letro - being as strong as Letro is - is that they are only bound to the enzyme for a limited amount of time before they unbind and are metabolized by the body. This means that when not used carefully, you can end up with bad estrogen rebound if Letro or Arimidex is halted too suddenly, or without Nolvadex to keep breast tissue receptors occupied so that the incoming onslaught of estrogen will not flare up potential gyno.

    Now, one may wonder "but if its suicidal, isn't that a bad thing for the body?". The answer is no. Aromasin may deactivate the aromatase enzyme permanently, but it doesn't stop your body from producing more aromatase. The enzymes that have been deactivated permanently will remain as such, but over time your body will slowly replenish its aromatase levels by producing more.

    Other advantages Aromasin has over the other two AIs:

    - Less harsh impact on blood lipid profiles (the inhibition and lowering of Estrogen in the body results in cholesterol profiles taking a turn for the worse - Aromasin has the least impact of all 3 AIs on this).
    - Nolvadex does not lower blood plasma levels of Aromasin!!! Nolvadex, when used with Letrozole or Arimidex, has been proven to lower blood plasma levels of both compounds(1). When anti-gyno protocols are taken into consideration where the use of Nolvadex with an AI is concerned, this presents a big problem where Aromasin is the clear victor above all other AIs. When trying to combat gyno (or used for PCT), Aromasin and Nolvadex work flawlessly together.

    REFERENCES:
    1. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91.

  4. #4
    warmouth is offline Productive Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    I much prefer Aromasin over the other two common AIs (Arimidex and Letrozole ), and I have mentioned this many times in different threads over the years. Arimidex and Letro don't do exactly the same thing as Aromasin. Aromasin is a suicidal Aromatase Inhibitor. This means that once it has bound to the aromatase enzyme, and thereby deactivated it, that enzyme remains bound to aromatase PERMANENTLY, rendering the enzyme inactive forever. Therefore, you do not end up with estrogen rebound.

    The problem with Arimidex and Letro - being as strong as Letro is - is that they are only bound to the enzyme for a limited amount of time before they unbind and are metabolized by the body. This means that when not used carefully, you can end up with bad estrogen rebound if Letro or Arimidex is halted too suddenly, or without Nolvadex to keep breast tissue receptors occupied so that the incoming onslaught of estrogen will not flare up potential gyno.

    Now, one may wonder "but if its suicidal, isn't that a bad thing for the body?". The answer is no. Aromasin may deactivate the aromatase enzyme permanently, but it doesn't stop your body from producing more aromatase. The enzymes that have been deactivated permanently will remain as such, but over time your body will slowly replenish its aromatase levels by producing more.

    Other advantages Aromasin has over the other two AIs:

    - Less harsh impact on blood lipid profiles (the inhibition and lowering of Estrogen in the body results in cholesterol profiles taking a turn for the worse - Aromasin has the least impact of all 3 AIs on this).
    - Nolvadex does not lower blood plasma levels of Aromasin!!! Nolvadex, when used with Letrozole or Arimidex, has been proven to lower blood plasma levels of both compounds(1). When anti-gyno protocols are taken into consideration where the use of Nolvadex with an AI is concerned, this presents a big problem where Aromasin is the clear victor above all other AIs. When trying to combat gyno (or used for PCT), Aromasin and Nolvadex work flawlessly together.

    REFERENCES:
    1. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91.
    Awesome answer! And this is the reason I am going to start using Aromasin, without question! Now, since the use of aromasin and nolvadex lowers blood plasma levels, would it be safe to assume this could lower RBC due to the use of AAS, at least to a small percent?

  5. #5
    warmouth is offline Productive Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyKnox View Post
    Here's a good piece on AI"'s. NOTE: I am NOT the original author.


    AIís

    Exemestane (Aromasin)


    Exemestane is a steroidal suicidal Type 1 irreversible aromatase inhibitor. Itís a naturally occurring substance from androstenedione which makes it very similar to formestane, one can call them brothers if they would like. Itís a newer generation AI which shows lots of promising potential as it does not abuse cholesterol as bad as other AIís have been reported to do so along positive effects on bone mineral density. It also does not lower IGF levels which pretty much all other AIís with the exception of formestane (raises IGF) lowers them. Since Exemestane is a steroidal AI, it does have some androgenic properties which can lead to some minor strength and size gain along an increase masculinity. The byproduct from the liver called 17-hydroxyexemestane is a metabolite which is created by the reduction of the 17-oxo group by way of the 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase which is responsible for its potent anti-estrogenic properties. Studies suggest Exemestane will block circulating estrogen up to 85% in women and 65% in men within a 12 hour span. When exemestane reaches full blood plasma concentration within the blood, it will block up to 98% of estrogen which means its POTENT. Based on a couple of studies I have read the only AI that can be taken with Novladex to reduce the estrogen that comes from increased testosterone would be Exemestane. Novladex inhibits the effectiveness of arimadex and other AIís based on this study: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Dec;79(1-5):85-91. I present the study to you good bros so you see that I am not trying pull the wool over your eyes. The suggested use of Aromasin /Exemestane is 25mg to see the 20% decrease in SHBG, 65% decrease in estradiol, and 60% increase in total/ 117% in free testosterone.

    A NOTE: The main difference between Type 1(suicidal) and Type 2(competitive) is that type 1 will deactivate the estrogen and the enzyme will be gone, which means a new aromatase enzyme must be created. In Type 2 AIís, the AI will compete for the binding site and once the individual stops taking the AI, the effects will come to a hault which can be problematic if you are on or still carry metabolites of a highly aromatizing androgen in your system.

    Arimadex (Anastrozole)


    Anastrozole is a Type 2 non-steroidal competitive aromatase inhibitor (second generation) which functions by blocking the aromatase enzyme (chromosome P450), the key enzyme responsible for the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Without the usage of an AI during an aromatizing cycle there are many unwanted side effects that may occur such as water retention, fat gain and growth of glandular tissue within the breast tissue aka gyno.Estrogen is needed for increased androgen receptor density, increased GH, IGF output, and glucose metabolism/utilization. Competitve reversible aromatse inhibitros do not stop the production or reduce estrogen, but prevent the estrogen from launching its effects by competitively binding up the receptors for estrogen, which is paralyzes estrogen from manifesting itís tendencies. Unfortunately as explained before, once one stops taking it, the enzyme will continue from where it left at which could potentially lead to an estrogen overload aka ďestrogen reboundĒ. Since Arimadex works is potent at preventing estrogen manifestation, it can plunge cholesterol levels.Estrogen is needed to maintain healthy cholesterol levels which is common sense it is cholesterol derived. This why many people prefer to use SERMís to control estrogen while on cycle without limiting gains and keeping cholesterol ratios of HDL to LDL in a healther range. If I had to suggest a SERM to use during a cycle, it would definitely be Raloxifene since its more potent than Novla in reducing gyno and does not have much evidence of affecting IGF, plus its less toxic than Novla as well. One other drawback is that Arimadex is really expensive, near the price as exemstane; yet in my opinion nowhere near the value as exemestane. Although, there is no doubt that Arimadex is potent as it does block over 95% of estrogen within peak concentrations, near Letro but not quite that strong.

    Letrozole

    Letrozole ( third generation) is a non steroidal selective third generation aromatse inhibitor which just like Arimadex will not give off androgenic effects. Its very similar to Arimadex which why they both are called Type2 non-sterodial competitive aromatase inhibitor. The main difference between Femara and Arimadex is that Femara is MORE potent. The MAX dosage for this AI is only 2.5mgs, by no means does one ever up the dosage, this will obliterate oneís estrogen by 98-99% within peak concentrations and is detrimental to cholesterol over pronlonged usage. I never recommend it on testosterone since studies suggest that when estrogen is blocked while taking testosterone, HDL (good cholesterol) plummets to unsafe levels. Now the good thing about letro is that if estrogen is starting to irritate the glandular tissue of the breast tissue, letro if presented on time will clear up the issues at hand. For some reason people think that if gyno calcifies; Letro will be able to get rid of it, NOT TRUE, only surgery will get rid of gyno at that point. Be aware of your chest when running any compound as I have seen non-aromatizing compounds cause gyno in some people. Remember when using AAS, you are using an exogenous hormone that is not part of the bodyís current chemistry and could cause issues such as gyo. Do not use during PCT as its detrimental to one's libido and lipids, only during cycle and please be careful with it since its extremely anti-estrogenic.
    Also a great response. I read this thread backwards.

  6. #6
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmouth View Post
    Awesome answer! And this is the reason I am going to start using Aromasin, without question! Now, since the use of aromasin and nolvadex lowers blood plasma levels, would it be safe to assume this could lower RBC due to the use of AAS, at least to a small percent?
    I think you're misunderstanding my post.

    I stated that the use of Arimidex or Letrozole with Nolvadex causes a drug interaction issue whereby Nolvadex will lower the blood plasma level of Arimidex/Letrozole. Nolvadex doesn't lower blood plasma. Nolvadex lowers blood plasma levels OF Arimidex and Letro when Nolvadex is used used together with either one.

  7. #7
    qscgugcsq's Avatar
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    Wow... I couldn't dream of a better and complete answer thanks alot. And yes Aromasin seems the best.

    The suggested use of Aromasin /Exemestane is 25mg to see the 20% decrease in SHBG, 65% decrease in estradiol, and 60% increase in total/ 117% in free testosterone. This sentence gives me a big smile. that's exactly what I need.
    However I'm still wondering what should be the dose... I won't be using it during a cycle so 25mg/day seems too agressive... And also for how long should I take it??
    Last edited by qscgugcsq; 12-26-2012 at 12:14 PM.

  8. #8
    Atomini's Avatar
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    It depends on what you're using it for. For an emergency gyno reversal issue, a full 25mg daily dose is necessary. But if you're just using it to keep blood plasma levels of Estrogen under control during the use of aromatizable AAS, then a dose of half that of the full dose (12.5mg) every day is fine, and some (including myself) have even done very well off of 12.5mg every other day while on cycle.

    Trust me, a full 25mg dose after a few days will have you crying from the aching joints due to severe Estrogen reduction in the body (and possible libido reduction). Remember that it still takes a few days for Aromasin to do its job (just like anything), so if using it for gyno reversal/control, you MUST take immediately 20-40mg of Nolvadex while taking your 25mg Aromasin dose, and the Aromasin should have the majority of your aromatase enzymes disabled in a matter of a few days.

  9. #9
    MickeyKnox is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    It depends on what you're using it for. For an emergency gyno reversal issue, a full 25mg daily dose is necessary. But if you're just using it to keep blood plasma levels of Estrogen under control during the use of aromatizable AAS, then a dose of half that of the full dose (12.5mg) every day is fine, and some (including myself) have even done very well off of 12.5mg every other day while on cycle.

    Trust me, a full 25mg dose after a few days will have you crying from the aching joints due to severe Estrogen reduction in the body (and possible libido reduction). Remember that it still takes a few days for Aromasin to do its job (just like anything), so if using it for gyno reversal/control, you MUST take immediately 20-40mg of Nolvadex while taking your 25mg Aromasin dose, and the Aromasin should have the majority of your aromatase enzymes disabled in a matter of a few days.
    Just wanted to say that i recently did 37.5mg/day Aromasin for almost two wks to bring my E2 down to manageable levels. No achy joints to report. But that's just me - I don't recommend it unless youre sensitive to E2.

    EDIT: I then returned to 12.5mg EOD protocol and have been fine since that time.

  10. #10
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyKnox View Post
    Just wanted to say that i recently did 37.5mg/day Aromasin for almost two wks to bring my E2 down to manageable levels. No achy joints to report. But that's just me - I don't recommend it unless youre sensitive to E2.

    EDIT: I then returned to 12.5mg EOD protocol and have been fine since that time.
    Pharm grade Aromasin? I'm betting it wasn't.

    We all know that Aromasin is very expensive to begin with (hence the ultra high costs of pharm grade compared to other products). Research grade and UGL grade i've found do contain real Aromasin in them (although there are some companies that manufacture straight up counterfeits with no active ingredient), its often underdosed but not as low as you might think.

  11. #11
    MickeyKnox is offline Banned
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    Liquid Stane from AR-R .

  12. #12
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    Ever since reading Atominis threads about Aromasin , I've been using it especially on my tren cycles. This is the only ai I will use from now on

  13. #13
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Aromasin had a bad rap for a while in the past because of people freaking out over its classification as a "suicidal aromtatase inhibitor". The word 'SUICIDAL' seemed to scare the shit out of people before they actually research what exactly a suicidal AI is.

    Then I remember hearing a lot of weird bro-talk about it. One guy a few years back asked me what AI I was using, and I told him my AI of choice is Aromasin. So he went on about how its the worst AI, and how it "permanently shuts down your receptors". Uhhh WHAT THE HELL??? Aromasin doesn't 'shut down' ANY 'receptors'. People's views have been so warped and twisted from all the rumors, bro-talk in gyms, bro-science, etc. that it seems like the ONLY aromatase inhibitors anyone ever even considers these days is Arimidex (and then Letro for the extreme gyno reversal protocols). Most don't even know about Aromasin.

  14. #14
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    Like I said i'm planning to use it as plan B If my estro is too high naturally(will get my BT next month) with also the hope to increase my free test(who is very low for a 19YO) and lower my SHBG(who ****ing too high).

    That's why I'm asking for a aromasin protocole considering there is no AAS used.

    Thanks everyone for your fast answer I really appreciate it

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    Quote Originally Posted by qscgugcsq View Post
    Like I said i'm planning to use it as plan B If my estro is too high naturally(will get my BT next month) with also the hope to increase my free test(who is very low for a 19YO) and lower my SHBG(who ****ing too high).

    That's why I'm asking for a aromasin protocole considering there is no AAS used.

    Thanks everyone for your fast answer I really appreciate it

  17. #17
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    I use adex on cycle, Asin during pct, and only letro if I get actual gyno because I believe it's the only one that can reverse it. Or at least it's most effective at it.

  18. #18
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    can I use aromasin as PCT??? Because I just bought my cycle but no nolva, only aromasin and hcg .... bad idea????

  19. #19
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    Very Nice Atomini. Factful, well writen and most importantly comprehensible. This may have changed my outlook on Aromasin somewhat. Again, nice work!!


    Moto

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX View Post
    can I use aromasin as PCT??? Because I just bought my cycle but no nolva, only aromasin and hcg.... bad idea????
    No. You need nolva and clomid along with asin. Come on bro!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyphy_beast View Post
    No. You need nolva and clomid along with asin. Come on bro!
    Ok thanks!!! Lucky I got some nolva left from my last cycle... but stupid question, tren and nolva doesn't like each other, nolva lowers the IGF-1 raise of tren and raises the prolactine raise. when you discontinue tren, obviously there shouldn't be any interaction, isn't it???

  22. #22
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX View Post
    Ok thanks!!! Lucky I got some nolva left from my last cycle... but stupid question, tren and nolva doesn't like each other, nolva lowers the IGF-1 raise of tren and raises the prolactine raise. when you discontinue tren, obviously there shouldn't be any interaction, isn't it???
    This is incorrect. Please cite your references to back up these statements you have made.

    First off, Nolvadex does not reduce IGF-1 levels to amounts anywhere near what people suggest. Yes, Nolvadex lower IGF-1 (in one study it was shown to reduce IGF-1 by 50% but the subjects were administered 20mg daily for weeks), but Trenbolone increases IGF-1 by absolutely massive amounts. Although no studies investigating this on humans has been conducted (due to Trenbolone's status as non-approved for human use), other studies on animals have demonstrated huge HGH and IGF-1 increases stimulated by Trenbolone. What we can look at, however, is Testosterone 's effect on IGF-1 release and then use that as a baseline measurement for Trenbolone's effect on the same thing. In a study by Fryburg, the effects of Testosterone and Stanozolol on IGF-1 levels were compared(1). Testosterone Enanthate (at only 3 mg per kg per week) increased GH levels by 22% and IGF-1 levels by 21%(1) in male test subjects. Did you read that correctly? Testosterone increased IGF-1 levels by a whopping 21%, and we know that Trenbolone increases IGF-1 levels even MORE than Testosterone does. So your logic of not using Nolvadex with Trenbolone based on the unproven and unfounded idea that Nolvadex will kill all of the IGF-1 increases from Trenbolone, is quite franky, ludicrous. The increases in IGF-1 levels that Trenbolone produces is like the equivalent of blasting a fire hose into a 5 gallon metal drum (without stopping) to fill it with water. The lowering of IGF-1 from Nolvadex is like the equivalent of taking a small nail and puncturing the metal drum to leak out water. Do you see how futile these effects are? Of course, there might be more concern if you were using Nolvadex at very high doses for very long term periods while you ran Trenbolone, but that isn't happening here so lets not worry about that. On to the next statement of yours...

    You mentioned that Nolvadex increases Prolactin in the human body? No it doesn.t Nolvadex DOES NOT increase Prolactin levels in the body. It was once misunderstood by the majority of the AAS-using community that Nolvadex in fact bound to and acted on Progesterone receptors, and therefore people fell into this misconception that Nolvadex when used with a 19nor (such as Trenbolone or Nandrolone ) will increase the potential for gynecomastia (specifically, Progesterone related). Unfortunately, nobody looked at the study this misconception originated from, otherwise they would have seen that first of all, Nolvadex acts as a mixed Estrogen receptor agonist/antagonist, and the same for Progesterone receptors. In some tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), the upregulation of the Progesterone receptor is expected and does occur, as the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen - this is where part of the confusion comes from. The other part of the misunderstanding is that in other tissues (such as breast tissue) Nolvadex is an antagonist (blocks the Estrogen receptor) - this should be common knowledge to you by now! The Progesterone receptor is synthesized in response to Estrogen. So when the Estrogen receptor is blocked (in breast tissue), the Progesterone receptor will ALSO down regulate. This does not happen in cancer patients but does in healthy, normal subjects. The problem is this: the study that stated Nolvadex upregulated the Progesterone receptor in breast tissue was concerned only with breast cancer patients, NOT HEALTHY MALE SUBJECTS(2).

    Therefore, it stands to reason that if you use Nolvadex to block the Estrogen receptor in breast tissue, it will also result in the downregulation of the Progesterone receptor!

    So, I am sorry to say that you are wrong when you say "Tren and Nolva don't like each other". Want to know how to effectively block gyno if you're on Tren and you happen to come down with gyno? USE NOLVADEX!

    REFERENCES:
    1. Short-term modulation of the androgen milieu alters pulsatile, but not exercise- or growth hormone releasing hormone -stimulated GH secretion in healthy men: Impact of gonadal steroid and GH secretory changes on metabolic outcomes. Fryburg DA., Weltman A., Jahn LA., et al: J Clin Endocrinol. Metab. 82(11):3710-37-19, 1997
    2. Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects. Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.
    Last edited by Atomini; 12-28-2012 at 05:59 PM.

  23. #23
    XxAndreaxX is online now Member
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    very interesting... but why not use nolva with tren then????? its easier to get and cheaper tan aromasin arimidex letro.... I mean my pharmacy is selling me nolva without prescription

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    austinite's Avatar
    austinite is online now HRT Specialist ~ LowTestosterone.com ~ Monitor
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    Personally would never touch Letro, I prefer Adex from this list. Aromasin works but its not instant like adex.

  25. #25
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxAndreaxX View Post
    very interesting... but why not use nolva with tren then????? its easier to get and cheaper tan aromasin arimidex letro.... I mean my pharmacy is selling me nolva without prescription
    I'm not telling you to not use Nolvadex with Trenbolone . I'm telling you that all of the research and evidence shows that you indeed can use it with Trenbolone, and that it is safe to do so. Aromasin , Arimidex , and Letro are aromatase inhibitors. They do not do the same things that Nolvadex does. AIs serve to disable the aromatase enzyme so that aromatizable androgens (such as Testosterone ) cannot convert to Estrogen. Nolvadex simply just blocks the action of Estrogen in breast tissue. The reason why more people may use an AI with Trenbolone is to keep Estrogen under control at its root cause (aromatization) when using aromatizable androgens with Trenbolone in a cycle. This is because the side effects associated with Trenbolone are greatly exacerbated and increased in a high Estrogen environment.

  26. #26
    XxAndreaxX is online now Member
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    wow man, you're stronger than Wikipedia, let me know if I got it right: AI disables all the estrogen conversiůn in the whole body, so no gyno and no wŠter retention. Nolva only acts in breast so no estrogen, and automatically no bitch tits. but you can store wŠter like you weren't taking anything. If I want to run a cycle for example: test E, deca and Dianabol , with an AI I won't store wŠter, but with nolva I'll get big like a pork.

    Last question: I read, Oxymetholone, won't react with an AI, only with nolva. An AI won't keep you safe from gyno. is it true????

  27. #27
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    Yup, the first part of your post is correct, you are understanding the difference between a SERM (such as Nolvadex ) and an AI (such as Aromasin ). AIs reduce ALL of the effects of Estrogen because they actually reduce the root cause of Estrogen levels rising in the first place (conversion via the aromatase enzyme). SERMs don't do anything to lower Estrogen levels, they serve to block Estrogen from being able to attach to receptors in breast tissue. So effectively, SERMs only really stop gyno. If you do get a gyno flare up and need to take care of it, the best method is to use both a SERM and an AI to attack it from both angles.

    As to your next question about Anadrol (Oxymetholone), you are completely correct. Anadrol is one of those very weird mysterious steroids , and one of its mysterious properties is the fact that because it is a Dihydrotestosterone derivative, it CAN NOT POSSIBLY convert into Estrogen via the aromatase enzyme in the body. However, Anadrol has a very very high amount of Estrogenic activity (heavy bloating and gyno are frequent concerns with Anadrol). So what's going on here? Well, it is speculated that Anadrol itself acts as an Estrogen in certain tissues in the body. This means aromatase inhibitors will do nothing to stop the Estrogenic activity of Anadrol. Therefore, the only possibility is to avoid or block gyno with a SERM such as Nolvadex. Unfortunately because AIs do not work for Anadrol, there is no way of reducing water retention that is Estrogenic in nature. People used to say that the reason why Anadrol exhibits Estrogenic effects is because Anadrol possesses some Progestogenic activity, but this isn't true because there is a study that was done that determined Anadrol possesses no Progestational activity, so the current speculation is that Anadrol itself acts as an Estrogen in certain tissues.

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    fabry is offline Senior Member
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    hello guys..
    in a prop/npp/var cycle, wich one between arimidex and letrozole would be better? and why?
    thanks

    fabry

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fabry View Post
    hello guys..
    in a prop/npp/var cycle, wich one between arimidex and letrozole would be better? and why?
    thanks

    fabry
    You're already on cycle and just now asking this question bro? You would want to run a real low dose of adex with this cycle possibly .25 e3d just to be safe, bump it higher if you get sides. That's a pretty dry cycle tho you most likely won't see much atomization at all unless you're super gyno sensitive. Also it would be smart to have some caber on hand for progesterone related to the npp cause it's a 19nor. Letro is mostly used to reverse gyno that's already occurred, it's very strong. You need some estrogen for gains. Got your pct in check? I like to switch from adex to aromasin for pct. Along with nolva and clomid of course. Oh, and hcg

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyphy_beast View Post

    You're already on cycle and just now asking this question bro? You would want to run a real low dose of adex with this cycle possibly .25 e3d just to be safe, bump it higher if you get sides. That's a pretty dry cycle tho you most likely won't see much atomization at all unless you're super gyno sensitive. Also it would be smart to have some caber on hand for progesterone related to the npp cause it's a 19nor. Letro is mostly used to reverse gyno that's already occurred, it's very strong. You need some estrogen for gains. Got your pct in check? I like to switch from adex to aromasin for pct. Along with nolva and clomid of course. Oh, and hcg
    Let me re phrase tho, this is a super dry cycle. I know for myself, I wouldn't need an ai for anything other than just side effect control. But I'm not gyno prone or estrogen sensitive.

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