First cycle 2.0 any advice or critiques appreciated

[Getthegear]

Ok I've done a little more research so I'm reposting before I start, any advice or opinions even flame me if it's honest I'm here to learn how to get this done safely.

Stats:
23
6'4
235lbs(big boned)
Around 17% bf but still dropping
I do understand that 25 and up is the ideal time to start but I'm starting from a decent foundation in size and weight.

I'm going to run a test E and dbol cycle pretty well the same one on all the newbie threads. Though I would like the opinion on what AI aromas in or arimidex ? I'll makesure to have one on hand though would you recommend running it during cycle eod? Or just hold onto it until I start to feel the sides? I've read a few posts about how some guys haven't even noticed the effects of higher estrogen until they took the AI and realized why it was doing for water retention and mood.

Week 1-10 test enathate 250mg Monday and Thursday so twice a week(I was thinking ten weeks but a few people have said 8 and more have told me 12?)
Week 1-4 Dbol 25-40mg a day(was thinking 25 40spunded a little high for first timer)
Week 1-10(12) AI every other day?
2 weeks after the last pin start my pct
Which on hand I have novadex and clomid
should I run both? Or pick one or the other?

I looked into HCG aswell but my buddy's who have a handful of cycles under their belts say that the one I'm planning is relatively mild and an AI on hand would be more than enough? Opinions on that or is that some serious bro science?

My diet is pretty standard, macros are
300g protein-75% from real food protein shakes are the rest
300g carbs- all the rice in china and some oats, Hashbrowns etc. on occasion whole wheat past
45-50g fats- peanut butter, omega 3 fatty acid pills, olive oil and tuna.

I do shift work so workouts are ten days in a row weights and cardio and five where I do light stuff at home.


In a nutshell that's the plan, anything you can offer me for help or criticism would be greatly appreciated and after I get it nailed down I'll post in the cycle section with some before during and after photos, and honestly share my experiences good and bad.

Thanks for takin the time to read this hope to hear from you.

[ma_fighter]

Ok I've done a little more research so I'm reposting before I start, any advice or opinions even flame me if it's honest I'm here to learn how to get this done safely.

Stats:
23
6'4
235lbs(big boned)
Around 17% bf but still dropping
I do understand that 25 and up is the ideal time to start but I'm starting from a decent foundation in size and weight.How long have you been training, without any breaks, as this plays a large part in whether or not you are ready to cycle.

I'm going to run a test E and dbol cycle pretty well the same one on all the newbie threads. Though I would like the opinion on what AI aromas in or arimidex ? I'll makesure to have one on hand though would you recommend running it during cycle eod? Or just hold onto it until I start to feel the sides? I've read a few posts about how some guys haven't even noticed the effects of higher estrogen until they took the AI and realized why it was doing for water retention and mood.You do not need to "Notice the effects" for them to be there! Run an AI, always run an AI...

Week 1-10 test enathate 250mg Monday and Thursday so twice a week(I was thinking ten weeks but a few people have said 8 and more have told me 12?) 10 weeks will be fine, usually you also get 10ml vials of gear, so you end up using exactly 2 vials, which is nice
Week 1-4 Dbol 25-40mg a day(was thinking 25 40spunded a little high for first timer)I wouldn't bother with D-bol, honestly, you'll do just fine without it. It's just more trouble then its worth IMO
Week 1-10(12) AI every other day?YES!!
2 weeks after the last pin start my pct
Which on hand I have novadex and clomid
should I run both? Or pick one or the other?Both

I looked into HCG aswell but my buddy's who have a handful of cycles under their belts say that the one I'm planning is relatively mild and an AI on hand would be more than enough? Opinions on that or is that some serious bro science?WTH does having an AI on hand have to do with hCG? Dont listen to your buddy if you want to do this properly. 250iu 2x per week, depending on what size amps you get you can leave little gaps in your dosing, so that you dont have to buy an extra amp that you do not use up. IE: nothing week 1-2, then 250iu 2x/week for 3-5, 6 off, 250iu x2, weeks 7-10 etc..

My diet is pretty standard, macros are
300g protein-75% from real food protein shakes are the rest
300g carbs- all the rice in china and some oats, Hashbrowns etc. on occasion whole wheat past
45-50g fats- peanut butter, omega 3 fatty acid pills, olive oil and tuna. about 2850kcal/ day, if your weight and BF% estimates are correct, and you should post a front, back and side pic for some more estimates, then your TDEE is: 2925kcal, which means that you would be on a cal DEFICIT, and essentially a cut. If you're doing this for a bulk, and weight/BF are correct, then I'd suggest upping cals by 500 or so a day.

I do shift work so workouts are ten days in a row weights and cardio and five where I do light stuff at home.So you work out 15 days in a row? or do you mean 10 days in a row, with no off days, then 5 with lighter stuff? This is too much IMO, you'll end up overtraining. You do not grow in the gym, you grow when your body rests, after being taxed hard in the gym.. You NEED the rest.


In a nutshell that's the plan, anything you can offer me for help or criticism would be greatly appreciated and after I get it nailed down I'll post in the cycle section with some before during and after photos, and honestly share my experiences good and bad.

Thanks for takin the time to read this hope to hear from you.

Answers and pointers in bold

[krugerr]

MAF just have you some pretty damn good advice.
Ill stress that we need more information about your training history. And I would really recommend Test only for your first cycle.

Krugerr

[Back In Black]

I kinda like the cals and macro's even though its pretty much a maintenance figure. If the OP's diet hasn't been particularly clean then he may get some nice recomposition results. But that would need almost complete adherence to the plan for 10 weeks.

However OP, I think you would be much happier with your results if you can get down to 12% bf before you start and do a lean bulk from there.

What are your diet plans through PCT?

[ma_fighter]

I kinda like the cals and macro's even though its pretty much a maintenance figure. If the OP's diet hasn't been particularly clean then he may get some nice recomposition results. But that would need almost complete adherence to the plan for 10 weeks.

Yeah, says he's 17% and still dropping, so a recomp might be what he has in mind ^^

[Back In Black]

Much easier when they state there goal though.

OP this is one of the better newbie posts that we get on here, thank you.

Just a note about your age, it's not your size and foundation that dictates you are old enough, are you up to speed with endocrine a systems and HPTA?

[Getthegear]

Wow MAF thats more and clearer advice than i could have hoped for! thank you for taking the time to answer.

Ok im convinced ill run the AI eod and see if i can pickup the HCG .

as for training and goals started training at 18(semi seriously) then at 20 i got really into powerlifting and did heavy olympic lifts etc. serious for 2 years gaining dirty as possible and got up over 260lbs...and BF way to high to admit haha, decidedi reallly didnt like how it look i was just a little addicted to seeing the plates on the bar?
took a little time off because I moved away for work and started up 9month ago going hard lost more than 20 lbs and seeing deffinition for the first time since I was a teenager
sticking to my diet pretty religiously, im hoping the Gear will give me the extra boost and frankly the psychological aspect of knowing for a guy like me will help tremendously.

and yes sorry i suppose what i am looking to do is a recomp rather than a straight cut, I i want to put on some LM while loosing a bit of BF than if the gear works for me look into a cutting cycle for the next one?

Also pictures to come soon!

as for the training MAF i do 5days 5nights 5off, I do heavy weights every second day and the days between are cardio light weights and abs. thats on my nights and days off, my 5 days i try to do light stuff at home(i have light free weights etc.) pushups crunches just easy stuff.I get up at 5 and home at 9 30 so im to burnt out to drive to the gym.

And you dont think the Dbol is worth it? i was planning to use it as the kickstart, from what i understand the test doest actually kick in for atleast 4 weeks?

thanks again and sorry for the spelling and grammer im typing this on my phone and the tiny keyboard doesnt agree with me.

[ma_fighter]

Hey mate, thanks for clearing things up a bit
And you're welcome, its a pleasure responding to posts such as yours, someone who is truly interested in learning and getting things properly done! Too many just wont listen if what we have to say is not what they want to hear

As far as the Dbol goes, I'm just not a fan. Sure, kicks in really fast, and you get stronger, but at least for me Dbol means instant bloat and instant gyno, within days. Even with an AI. Headaces and high BP.
Others love dianabol though, so its more of a personal preference.

However, if it is your first cycle, you should keep it as simple as possible, so you can determine how you react to what. Say you do test and dbol, and your BP spikes, or your nips get sensitive, or you get really bad acne, or whatever. Is it the test? is it the Dbol? is your AI bunk? you just have no way of telling.

And another point that has to be made is your age, you're still a bit on the young side to do AAS as safely as possible with regards to your HPTA/Endocrine system. Have you given this any consideration? Actually I missed the part about you being 23 in the first post, but Stem picked up on it

If you go through with your cycle, this is yet another reason to keep it as simple as possible.


And as far as the training goes, esp as you've been powerlifting, look out for overtraining.
If you do really heavy lifts, involving lots of muscles, Deads in particular, then your CNS will take longer to recover then your muscles, and you can end up overtrained.

Your CNS always fires when you lift, regardless of what lift you are doing, so rest days and deloads are essential. The 10 on, 5 off may very well do the trick though, I really cannot speculate on that, just something to keep an eye on


Best of luck!
/Maf

[Getthegear]

Maf again man thank you for going above and beyond, I do understand I'm on the younger side but at the same time i do fully understand the risks and that not everyone is the same.

Im off the power lifting now for the most parts(still keep up the deads and the squats but at reasonable weight at medium to higher reps rather than way to heave for a couple)
I am mostly working on body building now I would like to get a nice V going on.

as much as I want that Dbol kickstart. I cant ignore what youve said and it makes to much sense haha, to see how i react to one compound rather than the 2... I will go through with my first cycle but only on the test, from which i understand will take 3-4 weeks to really see the results anyways? and I will ask should i be adding on some creatine or extra OTC sups to help the gains or just diet workout hard and stick to the cycle?

again eveyone thanks for the help and input and once i gave some experience i look forward to helping the next batch as much as you have.

[ma_fighter]

No problem mate.

Well, even with Nebido, which is testosterone undecanoate (with a terminal halflife of 24+/-5 days, so up to a month long half life), used for TRT purposes, and injected once every 10-12 WEEKS!, you will still have a significant increase in Test levels the first day after the first injection. So you will have some benefit from the test even from the start, but its true that it takes a couple of weeks before you notice things really start shifting.

You can cut down on this time by frontloading the test, which means that you double the first weeks dose. This will make your bloodlevels more or less stable from week 2 on.
However, if you are set to run a 10 w cycle, but have a fixed amount of gear, say 2x 10ml vials, then to be able to frontload you would have to cut your cycle a week short, and then it becomes a matter of preference, because the difference in the end is negligible.

But if you plan on a 10week cycle, and are getting amps (1ml each) then you could simply get 2 more, and both front and do the full 10 weeks.

This is about as much as you'll want to complicate your 1st cycle, you can front, but lets keep it at that.
Later cycles, if you want quicker results, you can start with prop, then transition to test E or C, but as I said, save stuff like that for later.

Oh, and dont get Susta, its a blend of some very short, and some very long (undecanoate) esters, you'll be better off with plain Cyp or Enanthate .


OTC supps.. well, just make sure you get all your EFA's/vits/minerals, preferebly from food, but if need be you can supplement this.

Creatine - Kidneys can take a hit, if unlucky. I ate 400+g of prot per day, as well as creatine. And after a while I noticed that my wee was foaming/frothing. Went to the doc, and he had me drop the creatine and cut way back on the protein because my kidneys couldnt handle the stress, and I was expelling a lot of protein in my urine, which made it foamy. I havent heard of this happening to anyone else though, but still. You'll be on an AI, hCG , and Testosterone, keep it as simple as possible for cycle 1.
Then you will have a baseline, and know what to expect if you feel like starting to experiment later down the line.

Need to go, but I'll pop back in later to see if I missed answering to something
Cheers!