prop/tren/winny

**custom fit** · 05-19-2003, 12:50 AM

Background info.
23 yrs
5'11"
185-195...depending on the season
over 7 yrs of bodybuilding

My goals.
Looking to only gain about 10 good pounds of lean muscle, or atleast keep most with out the bloat

I am not looking for any freebee’s here, but i hope i can get some good critiques. This will be my 1st.

prop 100mg eod weeks 1-8

tren 75mg eod weeks 1-8

winny 75mg eod weeks 4-9

clomid 300/100/50

i'm having torouble whether i should add prop or not?

**RON** · 05-19-2003, 12:59 AM

Thats looks good to me. I'd probably ad another week on to the prop though.

**bronzebeefcake** · 05-19-2003, 01:19 AM

Boy how times have changed....There was a time when tren wasnt used in first cycles let alone novices...Not saying its a horrible idea but with the many sides these different drugs can cause how will you know how what affects you in each way?

If you are set on doing this then I would def. go with Rons advice and use the prop a little longer...

**MacGyver** · 05-19-2003, 01:41 AM

For a first cycle its a good one that is mild in my opinion which is a good way to start. Beefcakes right though, those compunds can have an amazing effect on you physically and mentally but if you got a good head on your shoulders and an even temper than you shoudlnt run into trouble.

THe difference in ED injs as opposed to EOD injs is night and day. Experiment w/ the prop to find what level is best for you. Personally I really liked 65 ED and I am at your weight range. You might want to go another week w/ both the Tren and Prop to help solidify gains. I did an 6weeker of the same but ED and lost a lot of it. The Win at 75mg is great though youre gonna fucking love it.
Good luck

**RON** · 05-19-2003, 07:21 AM

Oh boy now I feel like an idiot. I completely missed the 1st cycle thingie. My advice should have been go with longer esters on your first cycle bro. If you've never pricked yourself see what its like first. ED injections can be quit monotonous in the beginning.

I apologize for the mistake. It was very late last night

**usualsuspect** · 05-19-2003, 08:59 AM

I was always under the assumption that less was more for your first cycle. Why run a first cycle consisting of strong androgenics such as tren and prop when your body might respond very well to a mild stack such as EQ and winny. Many people can pack on 10 lbs of lean muscle running EQ alone (As I did for my first cycle and your stats are very close to mine).

Good cycles are only relative to the individual. Go light and work your way up. Introduce your body to foreign chemicals with high anabolic /low androgenic compounds such as eq, deca , winny, var...and a little down the road you can experiment with heavier androgenic cycles such as tren and prop. Why rock the boat with a hurricane when you can do the same job with a gust of wind???
JMO,

~US~

**custom fit** · 05-19-2003, 10:11 AM

wow, great response guys...

i decided to run tren because of it's great upside i.e. strenght gains, lean mucsle, low H2O retention.

prop- my orig idea did not consist of this, but in researching different combinations it stated tren would be great with a stacker.

eq- was 1 of my orig. choices, but talking with my source he mentioned i do without (he wasn't fond of EQ).

my original stack was tren/winny.<-----i didn't want to over do it my first time, but if im going to take it, i might as well do it right.

someone mentioned about ed better than eod?? Of course i want to keep what i have, and alot of it is going to rely on proper dieting, but with all the reseach i have done i cannot come up with the proper dosage.

the consensus seem that i start low<--no problem here, but at what dosage and is it better ed or eod.

thanks guys
-custom fit

**MacGyver** · 05-19-2003, 12:22 PM

ED is better than EOD inj. W/ Tren and prop. Your body doesnt ride an androgenic rollercoaster this way. 75mg EOD Tren is good for a first time so that you get somewhat acclimated to sticking yourself instead of jumping right in to ED injs. Prop, somwhere in the 60-90ED range is good because you get great results w/o the water retention.

Its true though, youre messing w/ some serious compunds here! If youre planning on doing several cycles then you might want to start off w/ Tren by itself or possibly the Tren/winn thing. I dont think you should really be worried though because most sides are easily taken care of by stopping. Youre not going to die or disfigure yourself.

Compared to all other AS, Tren, Win, and Prop give by far the best results. Why do some shitty half ass cycle of EQ, Enanthate .... that is going to give you OK results in double the amount of time. That mass that you build doesnt look nearly as good because youre not dropping bodyfat at the same time like w/ Tren/Prop. What Im saying is why waste time exploring other ASs that is not going to give you what you want in the first place. Youve already realized what you want and what can get you there (Tren/Prop) so why fuck around. For me the only problme is the temper. I think a 23 yr old should be able to conduct themselves properly. Most should.

Eat plenty of protein post cycle!!!!!

**daem** · 05-19-2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by MacGyver
Why do some shitty half ass cycle of EQ, Enanthate.... that is going to give you OK results in double the amount of time. That mass that you build doesnt look nearly as good because youre not dropping bodyfat at the same time like w/ Tren/Prop.

while i agree with 99% of the things you say, mac, i have to disagree here. eq/enth is not a shitty half ass cycle, and i would definitely recommend it for a novice user as a first cycle to get acclimated to the scene.

he wants to put on 10 pounds while keeping water to a minimum, so that goal is feasible with either a cycle of tren /prop or enth/eq.

diet will dictate what happens here, although i do agree that the tren/prop would harden him up more. as long as he is willing to prick himself every day for 49 or 56 days (7 or 8 weeks respectively) then i would say the tren/prop is a good choice.

**custom fit** · 05-19-2003, 02:19 PM

this is better than what i thought it be!

I am def going to stick to tren /winny, undecided about the prop. if i stick myself ed or eod i want to combine the prop and tren together. i don't want to do one ed and the other eod, i feel i would run out of spots to inject (ass cheeks and shoulders).

i tried researching tren/winny combo results and i couldn't find any, so my question is, would tren within itself give me 5-10 lbs of GOOD muscle????

thanks

**custom fit** · 05-19-2003, 08:47 PM

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*bump*

**kman** · 05-19-2003, 09:00 PM

bump

**MacGyver** · 05-20-2003, 12:14 AM

Yes it definitely will. There have been several people that have done Tren only cycles and have documented their results here. Its an awesome AS that will give you great results by itself. 10lbs no problem. If you make a 4 gram kit then you can go for as long as you want w/ EOD injs. Try for 10weeks and in the last 2weeks start the Win and run for 6 weeks.

1-10 Tren100mg EOD
9-13 Win50-75mg

Personally I would go 12-14 weeks w/ the Tren but for your first one you might want to shorten it.

Heres the problem that I have run into w/ not using Prop. Myself and others included have problems w/ the tool while using Tren. Side effects can range from impotency, lack of sex drive, or it just takes longer to finish. Some people dont have any problems. Everyones different. Myself it just takes a long time to finish. Prop just minimizes these side effects for me. Yes you can go w/o it. Results are better w/ it though. Try Tren alone see how you like it then. Regroup and then do an even better cycle.

Succeed where I failed. Take in plenty of protein post cycle! I did a short cycle(6wks) that was so beautiful but I lost a lot of the gains if not all. Easy come easy go! Thats why I say extend it. Check out my thread in the Members results forum. My names in the title w/ Kunipshionfit. Read it and make a better educated choice of whether or not to use Prop. Good luck bro.