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Thread: My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

  1. #1281
    ZoomyR6 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    May not be the answer you're looking for but it's accurate. My guess would be a minimum of .25 adex the day of each injection and check bloods 4-6 weeks later. It's a guess until you pull BW. Starting small is always the correct choice, which is what this thread preaches with the recommended starting dose of 500 mgs. Again, you'd be shutting down your endogenous production for what many consider just a small amount over a hormone replacement dose.
    Kelkel, thank you for the response. I agree with you, it very well may be a waste of time. I am already on trt 100mg/wk as it is and seen a big difference so far. Some people are already under the assumption I'm on steroids . Theoretically, they are right. I do not want to draw any more attention to myself. I just want to mess around a little before going to 500mg in the spring.
    .25mg 2x/wk actually sounds logical. However, I don't know if this changes things. My blood work just came back. My E2 sensitive assay is 32 (was 29 prior to trt) so it only went up 3pts since being on 100mg/wk. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, think I can get away without having to take an AI based on my current labs given this minor bump? I do not want to tank my e2.

    Regards

  2. #1282
    ZoomyR6 is offline Junior Member
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    Double post
    Last edited by ZoomyR6; 09-11-2017 at 12:55 PM. Reason: double post

  3. #1283
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoomyR6 View Post
    Kelkel, thank you for the response. I agree with you, it very well may be a waste of time. I am already on trt 100mg/wk as it is and seen a big difference so far. Some people are already under the assumption I'm on steroids . Theoretically, they are right. I do not want to draw any more attention to myself. I just want to mess around a little before going to 500mg in the spring.
    .25mg 2x/wk actually sounds logical. However, I don't know if this changes things. My blood work just came back. My E2 sensitive assay is 32 (was 29 prior to trt) so it only went up 3pts since being on 100mg/wk. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, think I can get away without having to take an AI based on my current labs given this minor bump? I do not want to tank my e2.

    Regards

    Well this changes things. I had not clue (or I missed it) that you were on TRT. You're not shutting yourself down so that makes a difference in the advice that I'd provide.

    So your E2 Sens was 29 before you initiated TRT whatsoever. Now it's 32 while on 100 mgs pw and I assume the range is about 8-35? If you're are planning on running 2.5 times your base TRT dose of 100 mgs you will need an AI as it will catch up to you. Personally I'd always prefer E2 a little higher than lower but imho you will need a small amount. If still not sure, maybe go 4 weeks and pull some minimal BW to see how your doing but I have little doubt you'll need some.

    Is your current protocol 100 mgs once pw?
    What TT and FT numbers is your BW showing at that dose, assuming pulling it just prior to injection?
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  4. #1284
    ZoomyR6 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Well this changes things. I had not clue (or I missed it) that you were on TRT. You're not shutting yourself down so that makes a difference in the advice that I'd provide.

    So your E2 Sens was 29 before you initiated TRT whatsoever. Now it's 32 while on 100 mgs pw and I assume the range is about 8-35? If you're are planning on running 2.5 times your base TRT dose of 100 mgs you will need an AI as it will catch up to you. Personally I'd always prefer E2 a little higher than lower but imho you will need a small amount. If still not sure, maybe go 4 weeks and pull some minimal BW to see how your doing but I have little doubt you'll need some.

    Is your current protocol 100 mgs once pw?
    What TT and FT numbers is your BW showing at that dose, assuming pulling it just prior to injection?
    Actually, the range for the sensitive e2 is < or =29.
    I'm not too concerned at people can get away with going as high as around 45 with no issues.

    My current protocol is 100mg 1x/wk and 250iu HCG 2x/wk

    My numbers were less than impressive:
    TT-447 (250-1100 taken in Afternoon right before shot-213 before trt)
    FT-98.8 (35-155 increase from 78 prior trt level)
    SHBG-15 (10-50 Dropped from 19 prior Trt
    DHT-14 (16-79 LOW)

  5. #1285
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    I'm used to seeing 8-35 for E2 Sens via Labcorp. Yes, I'd always rather have slightly higher than lower E.
    Your numbers would be much more impressive if you split your injections to twice per week. 50 x 2. You'd have less E2 conversion to worry about and you'd maintain a much more stable (and higher) test levels.

    Test has a half-life of about 5 days or so metabolism dependent and peaks in about 24 hrs post injection. After that it's all downhill for the rest of the week as the below graph will show:



    If you choose to stay with your once pw protocol (I encourage you to switch) then inject your HCG both one and two days before your test injection. The point of this (old school) is to bump up waning T levels as they fade at the end of the week.
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  6. #1286
    ZoomyR6 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I'm used to seeing 8-35 for E2 Sens via Labcorp. Yes, I'd always rather have slightly higher than lower E.
    Your numbers would be much more impressive if you split your injections to twice per week. 50 x 2. You'd have less E2 conversion to worry about and you'd maintain a much more stable (and higher) test levels.

    Test has a half-life of about 5 days or so metabolism dependent and peaks in about 24 hrs post injection. After that it's all downhill for the rest of the week as the below graph will show:



    If you choose to stay with your once pw protocol (I encourage you to switch) then inject your HCG both one and two days before your test injection. The point of this (old school) is to bump up waning T levels as they fade at the end of the week.
    I am most likely going to have to got with 2x/week anyway, if not, EOD or daily to get my SHBG raised. it is too low and should be much higher.
    Thank you for the feedback kelkel.

  7. #1287
    ZoomyR6 is offline Junior Member
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    ans what are your thoughts on mixing hcg and T in the same syringe to minimize the amount of injection a week and keep it at 2?

  8. #1288
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    No problem with mixing the two at all. Re SHBG - having lower shbg value isn't a problem unless you possess other signs such as metabolic syndrome.
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  9. #1289
    ZoomyR6 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    No problem with mixing the two at all. Re SHBG - having lower shbg value isn't a problem unless you possess other signs such as metabolic syndrome.
    I do not have any metabolic syndrome. I am, however, having sides related to low shbg.
    I can't seem to find the answer to this, BUT, would HGH have an effect on this? SHBG could mean metabolic syndrome, as you stated. That could mean insulin resistance. HGH causes this.
    Could the low SHGB be related to me taking HGH for the past 5 months? SHBG is still well within range but ideally should be higher that 25.

  10. #1290
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    Yes. GH can effect shbg (even a low dose.) As GH elevates shbg can decrease and insulin can increase.
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  11. #1291
    ZoomyR6 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Yes. GH can effect shbg (even a low dose.) As GH elevates shbg can decrease and insulin can increase.
    Well thats the exact opposite of what I'm experiencing. My SHBG dropped.

  12. #1292
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoomyR6 View Post
    Well thats the exact opposite of what I'm experiencing. My SHBG dropped.
    Odd but human. We can all metabolize differently and who knows what other factors can be having influence.
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  13. #1293
    abhijit38 is offline New Member
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    hey ..everyone great info for newbeis.. i goning to start a bulking cycle this is my first cycle so i do not want to make it complicated i research almost every compond i researching since 2 years .. some suggest me run old school deca dbol test combination there is no dought in that . this is great combination for putting mass.. but i want to keep things simple ..
    week 1-6 dbol 30 mg day
    week 1-12 test e 500 mg week
    week 11-14 hcg 1000iu per week
    week 15-18 clomid 50/50/25/25 with nolva 40/20/20/10.
    i use aromasin 12.5 or .5 eod from week 2 - 12
    questions
    i do not like pining can i do 500 mg at once per week . of test e in this cycle
    how much i expect from this cycle or it is better to i stack 400 mg deca in it ...
    have liver kidney and fish oil for protection

  14. #1294
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is online now HRT Specialist ~ AR-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    You don't want to make it complicated yet you're changing what's recommended in the first post of this thread. Why not simply follow this thread as it's meant to be and do it correctly? You don't need dbol . The basic premise is to learn what test with do for you and how to handle the sides without other variables.

    HCG should be from week 1 at a much lesser amount. Pin twice per week for stable levels. If pinning bothers you then you need to reconsider cycling until you're more ready.
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