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Thread: Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesterone Management + Gynecomastia Prevention & Reversal

  1. #121
    eroc's Avatar
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    if taking 330 mg test, whats a good dosage of DIM to take and some preferred brands?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by eroc View Post
    if taking 330 mg test, whats a good dosage of DIM to take and some preferred brands?
    300mg daily. But that's not enough alone. Need an AI.
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  3. #123
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    even with being on TRT? my doc didnt prescribe me any ai just HCG with 160 mg, my e levels has been in the 40's

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by eroc View Post
    even with being on TRT? my doc didnt prescribe me any ai just HCG with 160 mg, my e levels has been in the 40's
    330 is a high dose, even for TRT. Blood blood work will tell you if it's working of not.
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  5. #125
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    I was only prescribed 160 mg cyp I cut that in half and added a premix of 125 test p 100 tren a 100 mas. Total per well 330 test 200 tren 200 mast for 8 weeks then will get back on my hcg 500 iu 2 weeks before end of cycle and cyp 160 per at the end of cycle and get blood done 2 weeks after I end the cycle

  6. #126
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    Austinite, Why do you highly suggest to use Aromasin as AI with 19-Nor Compounds ? What are the major matters/benefits respect to Arimidex ?

  7. #127
    athletic.guy is offline Associate Member
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    Hey Aus....

    I'm mid way though a bulk and my blood work shows high progesterone. Normal range was 1-5 I'm at 11 over double the high end of normal.

    E2 and prolactin are in range, e2 was in the higher end but still well within range.

    I'm using 1000mg test, 650mg EQ, 450mg deca , 0.5 ADEX eod, 0.5 caber tw, 500iu HCG tw. Age 35, 240 lbs, 15% bf.

    Should I drop the Deca? Does the EQ increase progesterone ?

  8. #128
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    I dont think EQ is going to raise your progesterone but the deca most defiantly will. You might try lowering the test or taking the Adex every day. Is your adex from AR-R ? There are places that have been know to put out watered down adex, AR-R is not one of them.

  9. #129
    athletic.guy is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    I dont think EQ is going to raise your progesterone but the deca most defiantly will. You might try lowering the test or taking the Adex every day. Is your adex from AR-R? There are places that have been know to put out watered down adex, AR-R is not one of them.
    My e2 levels are in the normal range, will bringing them down to the lowest side of the normal reduce progesterone that dramatically?

    Is having my progesterone of 11 even worth worrying about considering the doseages im using? I've only got 4 weeks left on the deca . Then I continue the EQ, and test for 6 and 8 weeks....
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletic.guy View Post
    My e2 levels are in the normal range, will bringing them down to the lowest side of the normal reduce progesterone that dramatically?

    Is having my progesterone of 11 even worth worrying about considering the doseages im using? I've only got 4 weeks left on the deca. Then I continue the EQ, and test for 6 and 8 weeks....
    That's one of the things i asked in some previous post. If progestins increase estrogens activity BUT NO THEIR COUNT/NUMBER i suppose that control E2 to handle progestins better means: reduce *more* E2 to do decrease progestins activity. This is just logical deduction, i'm not sure is so.... if someone who is master of the theme would illumine us, that could be a great thing, about common interest.

  11. #131
    Chicagotarsier is offline Senior Member
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    Unless you are an one-off (oddball) case E2 is the gate keeper to hell. Control E2 and you control gyno, bloat, and a million other items. PRG on its own causing issues would be rare (not impossible) but rare. if you take the cases of PRG high only causing issues (confirmed cases) you would not run out of toes to count on. Naturally I have 2x top of range PRG and have 0 issues from it.

    E2 going high opens up paths for PRG to cause issues. When I asked my trt doc about my PRG level and concerns he said "when you are 4-5x top of range we can start to think about it".


    I am laughing at 330 a week for TrT. That would put a person at 3000-4000 TT. No doctor is going to prescribe that unless his name is Selfad Minister. You are looking at 2-3x top of range E2 from that...even if a doc did prescribe that he would not put you on it from the start. Docs are cautious for a reason...they like their pay check.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker78 View Post
    That's one of the things i asked in some previous post. If progestins increase estrogens activity BUT NO THEIR COUNT/NUMBER i suppose that control E2 to handle progestins better means: reduce *more* E2 to do decrease progestins activity. This is just logical deduction, i'm not sure is so.... if someone who is master of the theme would illumine us, that could be a great thing, about common interest.
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletic.guy View Post
    My e2 levels are in the normal range, will bringing them down to the lowest side of the normal reduce progesterone that dramatically?
    It's difficult to predict what will happen. Cholesterol is converted into pregnenolone which is then synthesized into progesterone. If your E2 levels are within range, and you feel well, then don't muddle with things.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier View Post


    I am laughing at 330 a week for TrT. That would put a person at 3000-4000 TT. No doctor is going to prescribe that unless his name is Selfad Minister. You are looking at 2-3x top of range E2 from that...even if a doc did prescribe that he would not put you on it from the start. Docs are cautious for a reason...they like their pay check.
    Very true. My dose of 70mg twice per week puts me at 1400 - 1500 TT. And the absolute only reason a doc would prescribe such an excessive dose would be if the person was a documented hyper-excreter.


    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    It's difficult to predict what will happen. Cholesterol is converted into pregnenolone which is then synthesized into progesterone. If your E2 levels are within range, and you feel well, then don't muddle with things.
    Well said.
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  14. #134
    Chicagotarsier is offline Senior Member
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    <<<<<<<Researching Hyper-excreter.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Very true. My dose of 70mg twice per week puts me at 1400 - 1500 TT. And the absolute only reason a doc would prescribe such an excessive dose would be if the person was a documented hyper-excreter.




    Well said.

  15. #135
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    Moral of the story: keeping E2 in a good range should take a good safe profile using progestins ( 19-Nor compounds ). The "good" E2 range to keep a good safe profile with progestins, i think, it's variable for each one.

  16. #136
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    Austinite, would you mind posting your opinion of the optimal range for the progesterone and E2 during let's say a heavy bulking cycle using a progestin compound like Deca .... (Because we can't use the labs recomended range during a cycle)

    What would you range optimal for E2 and progesterone on cycle ???

    My E2 is 38 pg/ml (high end of normal) and progesterone is 3 ng/ml (double the high end of normal)
    Last edited by athletic.guy; 06-26-2014 at 10:07 PM.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletic.guy View Post
    Austinite, would you mind posting your opinion of the optimal range for the progesterone and E2 during let's say a heavy bulking cycle using a progestin compound like Deca .... (Because we can't use the labs recomended range during a cycle)

    What would you range optimal for E2 and progesterone on cycle ???

    My E2 is 38 pg/ml (high end of normal) and progesterone is 3 ng/ml (double the high end of normal)
    You have to use labs range. We dont make up our own range. If your E2 is not in range you will have issues. That's why we use drugs to knock things down when they go up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    You have to use labs range. We dont make up our own range. If your E2 is not in range you will have issues. That's why we use drugs to knock things down when they go up.
    Again, this is great info...

    So with 600mg deca a week you recommend getting the progesterone levels within range. That's what I'm struggling with.

    I've added proviron @ 100mg ed and I'm reducing my HCG down to 250 iu twice a week and upping the dose of Adex to 1mg eod.... I can control everything but that damn progesterone...

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletic.guy View Post
    Again, this is great info...

    So with 600mg deca a week you recommend getting the progesterone levels within range. That's what I'm struggling with.

    I've added proviron @ 100mg ed and I'm reducing my HCG down to 250 iu twice a week and upping the dose of Adex to 1mg eod.... I can control everything but that damn progesterone...
    Some folks can't. Lower your dose of deca or seek an alternative steroid .
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  20. #140
    athletic.guy is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Some folks can't. Lower your dose of deca or seek an alternative steroid.
    Will keep the blood work up. Thanks for all the good info guys.

    Progesterone is something that really should not be overlooked in my opinion, if women use it as a contraception then high levels in males must be horrible on out ENDO system also. I think it could also play a part in fertility issues in males.

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletic.guy View Post
    Will keep the blood work up. Thanks for all the good info guys.

    Progesterone is something that really should not be overlooked in my opinion, if women use it as a contraception then high levels in males must be horrible on out ENDO system also. I think it could also play a part in fertility issues in males.
    AG, all your hormones can impact everything at one stage of another. So yes, of course progesterone should not be overlooked. That's the core of this article in its entirety.
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  22. #142
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    Thank you for this great write up. I've had gyno for 8 yrs now and I'm curious if you think your reversal protocol will work or if I would be wasting my time. I've read that time can make it more difficult to reverse but haven't seen any numbers as to what is too long.

  23. #143
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    great post!

    ''Tamoxifen : Dose at 40 mg every day for 1 week. After that, drop dose to 20 mg and use that every day until gynecomastia is reversed;;

    so can this actually make you're gyno go away if its been present for 7 years? or no chance? any legit ways of taking away the gyno excluding surgery? any info on that would be greatly appreciated!

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkfit View Post
    Thank you for this great write up. I've had gyno for 8 yrs now and I'm curious if you think your reversal protocol will work or if I would be wasting my time. I've read that time can make it more difficult to reverse but haven't seen any numbers as to what is too long.
    same boat my dumbs didn't use an AI at the time was told nolva is good enough well it wasn't either that or the nolva given to me was fake!

    wish i was more educated back than to use AI to prevent estrogen levels going off!

    id very open to hearing and possible suggestions of getting rid of the gyno with out surgery and just tablet dosages of nolvadex but for how long ?? and does it work even if u had gyno for years or no only to treat it asap while experiencing high estrogen during cycle while its fresh?

  25. #145
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    Worth a try. Cheaper than surgery. The studies I've seen are on pubertal gynecomastia . I dont have a definitive answer for the above 2 questions.
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  26. #146
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    So I've been trying to research this raloxifene from ar-r . I'm not exactly sure if this is injected or if you drink it? Also, the bottle reads 60mg/ml. I assume this is per dose and not 1 bottle. Is that correct and if so, how long will 1 bottle last at 60mg/day? Thank you

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkfit View Post
    So I've been trying to research this raloxifene from ar-r. I'm not exactly sure if this is injected or if you drink it? Also, the bottle reads 60mg/ml. I assume this is per dose and not 1 bottle. Is that correct and if so, how long will 1 bottle last at 60mg/day? Thank you
    Oral.

    Yes, it's no different than your gear (e.g. 100mg/ml). That's the dose per ml. Should be obvious if you're injecting gear.

    What does the total volume say on the bottle? That's the total amount of the compound.

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleInk View Post
    Oral.

    Yes, it's no different than your gear (e.g. 100mg/ml). That's the dose per ml. Should be obvious if you're injecting gear.

    What does the total volume say on the bottle? That's the total amount of the compound.

    The bottle reads 60ml 60mg/ml. So if I'm understanding right 1 bottle will last 60 days at 60mg/day? Forgive me for these rudimentary questions. I made the mistake of taking a cycle 8 yrs ago without doing my homework and I've been paying ever since. Thank you again for your patients.

  29. #149
    SRL_HEC is offline Junior Member
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    Yes that would be correct!

  30. #150
    athletic.guy is offline Associate Member
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    Hey, another question about progesterone. Could 1000 iu week HCG elevate progesterone out of range ?
    Last edited by athletic.guy; 07-06-2014 at 11:03 AM.
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  31. #151
    athletic.guy is offline Associate Member
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    Hey Aus,

    Is there any evidence that you know of that elevated progesterone can impact muscle gains?

  32. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by athletic.guy View Post
    Hey Aus,

    Is there any evidence that you know of that elevated progesterone can impact muscle gains?
    Yes. Just search pubmed. Plenty of info on this.
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  33. #153
    farfarrrr is offline New Member
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    Hello austin
    for this cycle what i should use on during cycle?
    oxymetholone :
    week 1 50mg
    week 2-4 100mg
    test e :
    week 1-10 500mg
    deca :
    week 1- 8 300-350 mg
    i have caber -letro-exemestane-hcg -tamoxifen
    thank u

  34. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfarrrr View Post
    Hello austin for this cycle what i should use on during cycle? oxymetholone : week 1 50mg week 2-4 100mg test e : week 1-10 500mg deca : week 1- 8 300-350 mg i have caber -letro-exemestane-hcg-tamoxifen thank u
    please start a new thread and include your full stats.

    Thanks.
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  35. #155
    farfarrrr is offline New Member
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    3rd cycle

    height 180cm
    weight 176 lbs
    age 24
    bf 12-14
    i dont run an ai on previous cycle
    im lactating and when i squeezing hard my breast discharge very very very little
    so i start letro .25mg ed and caber .5 each week

    this is my next cycle

    for this cycle :

    oxymetholone :
    week 1 50mg
    week 2-4 100mg
    test e :
    week 1-10 500mg
    deca :
    week 1- 8 300-350 mg
    what i should use on during cycle?
    i have caber -letro-exemestane-hcg -tamoxifen
    thank u

  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfarrrr View Post
    3rd cycle

    height 180cm
    weight 176 lbs
    age 24
    bf 12-14
    i dont run an ai on previous cycle
    im lactating and when i squeezing hard my breast discharge very very very little
    so i start letro .25mg ed and caber .5 each week

    this is my next cycle

    for this cycle :

    oxymetholone :
    week 1 50mg
    week 2-4 100mg
    test e :
    week 1-10 500mg
    deca :
    week 1- 8 300-350 mg
    what i should use on during cycle?
    i have caber -letro-exemestane-hcg -tamoxifen
    thank u
    As stated you will want to start your own thread to post your stats, cycle etc. This is someone elses thread. You will be likely to get a response then.
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  37. #157
    M@D MIKE is offline New Member
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    hey Austinite does EQ increase progesterone? my current cycle is 750mg test e 600 EQ and 1000iu hcg split monday/friday. my bloods came back with my progesterone quite high was wondering is it the EQ or hcg?

  38. #158
    M@D MIKE is offline New Member
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    bump

  39. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by M@D MIKE View Post
    hey Austinite does EQ increase progesterone? my current cycle is 750mg test e 600 EQ and 1000iu hcg split monday/friday. my bloods came back with my progesterone quite high was wondering is it the EQ or hcg?
    No. What is your E2 and range?
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  40. #160
    M@D MIKE is offline New Member
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    E2 is 108 on a range of 25 to 150 and progesterone is 5.7 on a range of 2.5 to 4.5 i am also running anastrozole 0.5 mg every 3 days could it be the hcg that is causing high prog and would you recommend increasing a.i dosage? all advice is much appreciated buddy

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