Thread: Height Growth Cycle
05-26-2003, 06:18 PM #1
Height Growth Cycle
Ok here goes. No flames please, only comments that dont involve insults on ones intelligence or experience.
First Ill begin with my height growth theory, written after several years research.
To research the possible applications of Long Chain R3 IGF-1, Oxandrolone, Testosterone Enanthate , Letrozole , and a high protein diet to assist in cosmetic height increase and bone growth in adolescents. As well as Clomid for post-therapy.
Substance Application Theories -
Long Chain Human Recombinant Insulin -like Growth Factor 1:
This compound is the base of my entire theory and is a truly amazing compound. The role of IGF-1 in this theory is to provide the stimulation and the basic hormonal requirments for bone growth. The long chain form will be spoken of, as it offers the advantage of a longer half life. Theoretically by giving the body levels of IGF-1 beyond its natural levels, the body will be encouraged to further increase its bone growth. Also, the elevated IGF-1 levels have the ability to signal the body to induce more bone growth than was genetically mapped.
Another important factor is Oxandrolone. The role of Oxandrolone in this theory is to accelerate the bone growth. This would lead to quicker results, and even enhance the overall results. It is a well established fact that steroids cause accelerated bone growth. The aromatising of steroids results in increased excess of estrogen levels, which in adolescents whose growth plates are still open, results in a breif acceleration of bone growth followed by complete, permanent growth plate closure. Once the growth plates are closed, further long bone growth (the bones responsible for height) is impossible. Oxandrolone is one of the very few steroids that has very little to no aromatising. One problem is still encountered with Oxandrolone shown in scientific studies of its use in adolescent height growth. It speeds up the maturing of bones. This has a similar, yet less severe, effect to excess estrogen in causing a shorter period of growth. It is not a premature closing of the growth plates, it is a sped up maturing of the actual growth plates themselves growth cycle. To counteract this, as well as excess estrogen levels possibly caused by Oxandrolone (as well as natural estrogen levels), one could theoretically use a high quality anti-estrogen such as Letrozole.
Testosterone Enanthate :
Enanthate is an ester of the male sex hormone Testosterone. The hormone is attached to a 17-alky protein to increase its halflife from several minutes to weeks. In the human body Testosterone is responsible for the acceleration of bone growth. This is why males are taller than females after pubertal growth spurt because males have more Testosterone and also less estrogen. The purpose of Testosterone Enanthate in this theory is for the exact same purpose and role that it plays in pubertal growth spurt. During puberty Testosterone levels are at their most elevated, this is why humans grow their fastest during puberty. Post puberty, Estrogen lvls that have converted from Testosterone cause the growth plates to close, this results in a final height.
As pointed out above, Letrozole seems like another important factor. In this theory Letrozole would prevent estrogen considerably (96% inhibition), allowing the bones to grow with less restrictions. Also, Letrozole as well as other anti-aromatese have been shown to decrease the speed of bone maturing. By using Letrozole, an adolescents rate of bone maturing would slow down, allowing a longer growth period, resulting in an increased final height. This would fight against the accelerated bone maturing side effect of Oxandrolone, furthering results.
High Protein diet:
Diet should not be overlooked in this theory. Diet plays perhaps the most important role of all of this. A diet high in protein has been shown to assist in better bone formation, and even keep growth plates open longer. Not to mention its positive effects on natural IGF-1 levels, and just about everything else. Having a proper diet in place, one high in quality protein with essential as well as non essenital amino acids, would provide the body with everything needed to accomplish the actual task of bone growth. Without the proper diet, no amount of any drugs/hormones would be able to fully complete the task of bone growth.
With the use of external sources of Testosterone Enanthate, the body discontinues its natural production of Testosterone due to the hormonal feedback mechanisms of the human endocrine system. When done using external Testosterone sources, one should take Clomid. Clomid restarts the bodies natural testosterone production far faster than what would happen if one did not use clomid after using external Testosterone sources.
Media Grade Sigma LR3IGF-1:
80 mcg/ed - 40 mcg post workout (IM), 40 mcg before bed (IM)
4 weeks on, 4 weeks off (downregulating time), 4 weeks on
Human Grade ICN Testosterone Enanthate:
weeks -12,-11,-10,-9,-8,-7,-6,-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19, 20,21,22,23,24
300, 300, 200, 100, 100, 100, 100, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50 - /mg ed
Milk Thistle, r-ALA, CLA, ALCAR, GT, Soy Lecithin. Home made MRPs with hydrolyzed oat flour and flavorless de-natured protein. Lots of water and cranberry juice. 2 cups grapefruit juice before my orals in the morning. Arginine, orinthine, lysine and taurine before bed. I also wakeup at 2:00am in the morning to my alarm, slam a pre-mixed protein shake and fall back asleep all within 2 minutes - will continue to do this in cycle.
Also will be using 1 mg/ed of Finasteride throughout the cycle and beyond. Infact im using it right now, and ive got 6-8 months before the cycle. Using it for hairloss, not related to the cycle, but ill still be using it when the cycle starts.
5,000 calories/ed. 500g protein per day.
Workout 5 days a week, hour a day, no cardio.
Depending on how much fat I put on during the cycle, may run QFS PGF-2a DMSO transdermal fat burner and clen post cycle during my clomid therapy.
Phew that took awhile to type up. Comments, questions, suggestions welcome. Flames are not.
05-26-2003, 06:23 PM #2
First, have you gotten an xray or mri to determine your plates havent fused anyways? You realize if one has fused somewhat and you do this one side of your body will grow more than the other??? Better make DAMN sure on this first.
Second, drop the Let and Get Aromasin . You dont want any aromatation. Id use 25mg ED with the 500 Test and that should be plenty.
I am going to also assume you will be getting weekly or bi-weekly checks to ensure your estrogen is not high.
05-26-2003, 06:33 PM #3
Here's a study on femara and growth plates
Novel treatment of delayed male puberty with aromatase inhibitors.
Dunkel L, Wickman S.
University of Helsinki, Hospital for Children and Adolescents, Finland. email@example.com
BACKGROUND: As the evidence for the role of oestrogens in epiphyseal closure appears unequivocal, we hypothesized that boys with constitutional delay of puberty would attain greater adult height if oestrogen action was suppressed.
METHODS: We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in which we treated boys with constitutional delay of puberty with testosterone plus placebo or testosterone plus a potent fourth-generation aromatase inhibitor, letrozole .
FINDINGS: Letrozole effectively inhibited oestrogen synthesis. The 17beta-oestradiol concentrations increased in the untreated group and in the testosterone/placebo-treated group, but in the testosterone/letrozole-treated group no such increase was observed until letrozole treatment was discontinued. Testosterone concentrations were threefold higher in the testosterone/letrozole-treated group than in the other groups. Within 18 months, bone age had advanced by 1.1 +/- 0.3 years in the untreated group and by 1.7 +/- 0.3 years in the testosterone/placebo-treated group, but only by 0.9 +/- 0.2 years in the testosterone/letrozole-treated group (p = 0.02 between treatment groups). Predicted adult height did not change significantly in the untreated group and in the testosterone/placebo-treated group, whereas in the testosterone/letrozole-treated group the increase was 5.1 +/- 1.2 cm (p = 0.004).
CONCLUSIONS: Our findings suggest that, if oestrogen action is inhibited in growing adolescents, adult height will increase. This observation provides a rationale for studies aimed at delaying bone maturation in several growth disorders. Copyright 2002 S. Karger AG, Basel
05-26-2003, 06:34 PM #4
My doctor refuses to give me any tests, blood tests, bone xrays, anything. he says if I dont need these tests for some life threatening reason he wont give me them. What a fucking asshole, what the hell do I do?
05-26-2003, 06:36 PM #5
ya thats a good study Johhny. Thats pretty much the study that convinced me my theory is plausible
05-26-2003, 06:39 PM #6
HAHAHAHA, i hadt he same prob, just tell the fool that u wanna do heavy squating and dont wanna inhibit ur growth, and hell give u an x-ray to determine if ur epiphysical cartilage has closed !
05-26-2003, 06:44 PM #7
I think the problem is your combining all of these. I've never heard of test enan being used for growth, do you have a study or is this your theory? Your doses are to high also, more is not better or in this case make you taller. If you've researched this out, did you find one with the combo of all these together, I would say, No. Don't take it upon yourself to combine and up doses it'll only cause problems, that your not looking for. You should stay away from this idea(cycle) as you can, which would be not doing it.
DO NOT DO THIS, you need medical supervision. There's more harm that would be done then good.
05-26-2003, 06:58 PM #8
I understand your concern. The study you yourself just posted Johhny says testosterone causes height increase. Now, testosterone enanthate has the same effect on the body as "testosterone", correct? Im speaking muscle development wise here, so if it works the same as testosterone in its effects on muscles as ur natural testosterone does, then why is it you can assume that it does NOT work the same as natural testosterone in accelration of height growth? It even triggers ur bodies own hormornal feedback mechanisms the same as would natural testosterone if it were to ever reach those concentrations, so I dont see any reason to assume it'd differ on bone development.
I do recall reading a study or two about enanth on height growth... not a lie... however I do not have a link at hand to recover this/these studies. I will be refused all medical supervision, as my doctor is an asshole, and seems to rather have me screw up and die, than bend the rules a bit to keep me safe. So hes pretty much useless. Now if I can get valid excuses to get these tests, then please give me some. Id like a bone study and a blood test on my estrogen, testosterone, IGF-1 blood levels, my liver values and my lipids.
Are my dosages too high? Perhaps... I have 6-8 months to continue my research and preparations. So theres no rush here, Im almost positive things will be changing over the next few months. One of the biggest changes I can see, is in the oxandrolone. I am really considering knocking to 40 mg/ed for the entire cycle, and not bothering with the 4 week 60 mg/ed. Other than that however, my dosages do not seem radically overdone to me. The testosterone dosage is pretty average... the LR3IGF-1 is not exaggerated much over the average either. The letrozole is minimal for what I seek.
Billy_Bathgate - I fully researched the top 3 third generaiton anti-aromatases: anastrazole, letrozole and exemestane. To be honest, Ive found letrozole to suit my purposes far better than Aromasin or Arimidex . Somethings I didint mention, letrozole boosts IGF-1 lvls by 20%, and testosterone lvls by 50%. To me this spells only more benefits. Not to mention I feel all three of those anti-e's have roughly equal (give or take a percent) inhibiting effects.
05-26-2003, 07:05 PM #9
Oh and if I may add, in that study it says "Predicted adult height did not change significantly in the untreated group and in the testosterone /placebo-treated group". Why do you think this is? I have my idea behind it. Simple really, the more testostrone caused more estrogen aromatizing and because there was no anti-aromatase used the estrogen caused the growth plates closure speed to accelerate and kaboom, before the testosterone could emmit its full accelerating effects the growth plates were screwed by the estrogen caused from the testosterone without the anti-aromatase. In other words, for external sources of testosterone to have a real effect on the bodies bone growth, you HAVE to run a top quality anti-aromatase along side.
05-26-2003, 08:24 PM #10
BUMP - comon a bro told me there was a few broskis on here who wanted to comment on this so thats why I posted it up.
05-26-2003, 09:05 PM #11
Bro the test doses are high I've never seen a study with over 300mg a week but almost all are at 100-200mg a week. There's a law that doesn't allow them to go over a curtain dose level(I don't know what it is).
What did you think of what I said about combining all of those?
05-26-2003, 09:19 PM #12
I still suggest Aromasin because it is much much better then letrozole and if you want to do this, this is going to be key.
I wouldnt attempt it without at least some x-rays. I am assuming your somewhere between 16-20? You dont wanna mess around with partial closure. Its not cool to have one leg 2" longer than the other lol
Tell your doctor to give them to you or to go fuck himself and take your business else where. Seriously
05-26-2003, 09:56 PM #13
Billy, convince me Aromasin is a superior choice. I want to see what makes you think its going to be better. Im still tweaking everything and its definetly not too late switch stuff around. But I really wanna hear why you think it'll be a better decision. What about letrozole + aromasin? (LOL no im not planning it, just theorizing here).
The test doses are high for studies yes, you said yourself they put a limit on the doses. This isnt a study, this is self experimentation because I beleive my theory will work and If its gonna screw anyone up, it should be me not somone else cause its my theory. So why should I obey the governments laws on dosages for studies when this isnt a study? Im not saying ur wrong, but I dont consider 500 mg/wk a massive dosage of test, and I personally think the studies were not dosaged well enough to allow for the maximum potential - as you said - due to dosage limits allowed. If somone told you a guy made some gains off 100 mg/wk of testosterone , knowing what you know now, you can say, in that situation, more does mean more. 100 mg/wk test works, its shown to work, ok, but theres nothing showing that 500 mg/wk is going to reach the dropoff point when increased dosage can no longer bring any further results than a lower dosage can.
About the combining. Thats the beauty of my theory. All these things have been proven, on their own, to contribute to a higher height stature. But theres nothing out there that shows all these factors added at once. Thats the purpose of my theory, to take all these things, and put them all together, and see the results. Logically speaking, if letrozole say gave a 2 cm increase in height, LR3IGF-1 gave a 2 cm increase in height, testosterone gave a 2 cm in height, and oxandrolone gave a 2 cm in height, whose to say that all together, I wouldnt acheive a 8 cm in height increase??? Whose to say, that with ALL these factors present at once that they wouldnt have a synergy? Perhaps that 8 cm's, could be 10 cm's, who knows???
In the shortest form possible, what my theory is, is a super puberty. Pubertal growth spurt after puberty, and given multiple times the potency. Is it wrong? Go study puberty, go study the hormonal factors in puberty and its relation to height growth and you will see that everything in this theory is based on puberty. Call it synthetic puberty.
05-26-2003, 10:01 PM #14Associate Member
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- Jan 2003
How tall are u?
05-26-2003, 10:04 PM #15
05-26-2003, 10:18 PM #16
Now I am definitely not the most knowledgable in this area, that's why I wanted you to post this, but I don't agree with your idea of the synergy of these drugs. It may be true that each one of these has been shown to give an increase in height, but putting them all together shouldn't net you the individual benefits of each independently. Where is your body going to be able to handle 8cm of additional growth, anyway? I think your theory is just that; a theory. Re-creating puberty doesn't sound like a safe thing to do, especially without strict medical supervision. Most of us have no problem using AS to build extra muscle, but you are talking about building up your actual bone structure.
Another thought...using exogeneous testosterone is going to halt your natural test production. Making your body stop producing test is not a good idea, especially if it does turn out that you can recreate puberty. If your body thinks it doesn't need to, it may never produce test again. Is it worth not having children, much less sex, to be an inch taller?
BTW, how tall are you now, that makes this such a concern?
That being said, if it is possible that you could keep your growth plates from closing, why not just let your natural test promote additional growth, or would that not be enough to be effective? Just a thought.
05-26-2003, 10:23 PM #17
"If your body thinks it doesn't need to, it may never produce test again. Is it worth not having children, much less sex, to be an inch taller?"
I will research into this.
Whys it such a concern? It stems down to my career, no one wants to hire a 5'7" model, trust me on that one. Yes everything here IS just a theory for this has never been done before. Is this really that outrageous, look at whats being used, nothing that you wouldnt use in a normal muscle growth cycle, the only difference is, Im seeking the bone growth from it, not the muscle growth, althoguh im sure that will be huge side effect from it
05-26-2003, 10:38 PM #18
I'm just asking you to be careful. Muscle growth and bone growth are two entirely different demons. No one wants to hire 5'8" or 5'9" model with an abnormally developed body, either. You can change muscle growth, but if one leg grows an inch longer than the other, you're screwed. Permanently. I respect all your research and am not meaning any flame here, but I'm sure that I would not try this myself.
05-27-2003, 12:43 AM #19
Aromasin has approximately 90-95% reduction in aromatation
Aromasin is permenent (via suicidal inhibition)
Let lookin around 50-60% reduction (been awhile its somewhere around that)
Let decreases aromatation BUT it increases aromatic protien enzymes meaning once you quit taking it your left off with more estrogen converting than you started with (unless you follow up with ari or something)
Those are my main reasons
That and the bloodwork I have done before 1) showed it easier on the lipids, and 2) showed much more effective
05-27-2003, 12:44 AM #20
PS IM 5'7" and love it! Especially at 235lbs at the moment!
05-27-2003, 01:03 AM #21
...? 60% inhibtion? Thats not what Zyg from ****** informed me...
permenant inhibtion??? Thats not right bro. That means id continue to grow taller for the rest of my life, thats just like andre the giant and so forth, thats not what I want. My dreams 5'10" - 5'11" no taller, no shorter.
05-27-2003, 01:58 AM #22
Your genetics and a balenced diet will decide how tall you will become,the answer is inner peace and self confidence not drugs and supps.all the drugs and aas in the world wont make a difference in how tall you are so all that research youv done is meaningless.if your father and mother are both 5'4 your genetically limited,period.and i cant believe im posting to another one of your threads.
05-27-2003, 02:04 AM #23
You love me thats why
Well my brother is 6'0", my parents are both 5'5" and im 5'7.5".
05-27-2003, 02:10 AM #24Originally posted by Foxy Sphinx
You love me thats why
05-27-2003, 01:23 PM #25
yes it is right, aromasin is permanent. that dont mean it will stop all the estrogen in your body fory the rest of your life lol, just on the molecules it acts on. after you quit taken the drug it wont be doing its job anymore and the estrogen that it did inhibit permanently will be long gone from your body after about 3 days
besdies the point thouhg, just because you dont have estrogen dont mean youll grow either
letrozole sucks, kills mine and many others sex drive...aromasin is so much better
05-27-2003, 01:38 PM #26
05-27-2003, 02:26 PM #27
Aromasin would still be better
Read up on it. I dont sell it or anything or have stock, but its beats all them hands down. Just the fact that its a suicidal inhibitor vs anti-aromatase is proof in the pudding right there.
05-27-2003, 03:02 PM #28
05-27-2003, 05:45 PM #29
Not any more than Let or Ari does, which btw have a positive effect on test not neg, via negative feedback. IGF is gonna drop reguardless of what you take, but the amount is irrelevant when on exengonous test...people see 20% or whatever and think that actually means something important lmao
oh, and before you (or anyone else i guess) tell me that let increases IGF, there are just as many studies showing that it decreased it.
I thought you said you done several years of research??
05-27-2003, 06:41 PM #30
Believe me I have. But one study will say it does so and so, and the next study will say the opposite. Anti-aromatases dont seem to have any clear cut studies that say "it WILL inhibit this % and it WILL cause this much test % increase" etc.
Whats the legality of Aromasin ? Is it in the same kinda category as arim and let?
05-27-2003, 10:16 PM #31
Bro read this http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=50517 The first part says they can't use the doses we use, so you doses are off at best dangerous at worst.
I can't stress this enough DON'T DO THIS
01-17-2006, 10:27 AM #32New Member
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- Feb 2005
im planning to do the same cycle.. but using 40mg oxandrolone, and starting with 40mcg of igf, and 200mg test...
only serious comments plz..
01-17-2006, 12:29 PM #33
I know plenty of guys, myself included, that have run Enth., IGF, and tren at much higher doses along with letro and clomid and haven't grown a millimeter. Personally I have run over a gram of test E, 100mcg's of IGF and 4iu's of GH together and your telling me if I had added Var I would have started to get taller. Am I missing something here? By the way Finaplix used transdermally is a waste of time unless you want to smell like a garlic clove.
01-17-2006, 12:33 PM #34
Holy crap I didn't see how old this thread was. Damn I hate when that happens.
01-17-2006, 12:43 PM #35Originally Posted by gbgadriano
01-17-2006, 07:30 PM #36Member
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- Apr 2005
I would have loved to of been as smart as I am now at age 23 as I was at age 14. My problem? when i was 15 I broke my upper tibia at the growth plate when I was Jumping to dunk. My muscle was so strong and my growth plate made of new bone was weak and it cracked.
My doctor told me my growth plates were both done growing in my legs. so the rest of my body was pretty much 100% done at age 16.
Kinda suck when u stop at such a young age. I was also blessed with puberty onset gyno. Sergury thankfully corrected that. Had I taken letro when i was 14-15 I could have added 1-2"s and had no gyno. But of course theres always the chance of screwing up my endocrine system perminantly.
I think the problems I went through were worth keeping a healthy endocrine system.
But why should I complain ? I'm already 6-4 lol
01-17-2006, 07:48 PM #37
I have a friend who grew about 3 inches on a cycle similar to this one.
01-17-2006, 07:49 PM #38
wow this thread is old
01-17-2006, 08:08 PM #39New Member
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- Feb 2005
tnx for the post guys... and about the dosage.. what do u think??
- its better to start with 40mcg of igf or split 80mcg in 40/40??
- its better 250mg os test or 500mg/wk..
- and about the oxandrolone?? 40mg is too much??
tnx.. i love this forum...
01-17-2006, 08:59 PM #40Originally Posted by gbgadriano
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