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Oh geez
Too much of any sauce is a waste
At a 180 pounds the only thing I'd run is test and food
Unless you're @ 5%bf
I tried replacing food with sauce - it just doesn't work. Running 2g's of injectables a week will still yield less results than 1g and 99% diet
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“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
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03-18-2014, 10:38 PM #43Banned
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I think I maybe wasn't explaining my position clearly. I'm not denying that receptor affinity or competition exists, I'm not denying one compound can have a higher binding rate or affinity than another, and I'm not denying that compound x may have reduced chance to bind than compound y bc y has a higher affinity. I agree with these points in theory or in periods of supersaturation.
Where I'm not following you is in this case how that applies to OP and if these issues will result in actual clinical manifestations. Let me try to better explain why I don't think it does.
If this is such an important issue why would you ever stack more than one compound at a time? Tren has a higher binding affinity to the androgen receptor than test. Following your line of thinking, to the extreme, you wouldn't need the test bc the tren will always win out. But we still take test with tren and even sometimes stack more compounds together with increased results in most cases. If as you say all AAS compete with each other, and I agree that they do, than with your train of thought what's the purpose of ever taking more than one AAS? The limiting factor here is diminishing returns not receptor binding affinities.
Another issue is that for this to be an issue here you'd have to assume several things:
1) AAS molecules bind permanently to the receptor but we know that's not the case. Nandrolone takes roughly 4-6hrs for the binding and transcription process and subsequent dissociation. After the hormone molecule leaves the cytosol both hormone and receptor are free to bind again...increasing the chances of the other hormone to eventually bind and activate the receptor. Nandrolone is one of the longest compounds in terms of time for the whole process from start to finish I believe.
2) receptor saturation: if this were the case I'd agree with you that it would be an important consideration regarding receptor affinity but we know again this isn't the case. If it were and all the receptors had bonded to a hormone molecule (here in OP's case of <1g of gear) than 800mg of test would not get you any bigger than 2g of test bc the receptors would have been saturated at much lower levels. 2g would certainly get you bigger or stronger albeit it with diminished returns.
3) there's enough evidence to safely assume that receptor down regulation doesn't happen from supraphysiological doses of AAS and there's enough to assume that in fact up regulation does happen with supraphysiological doses. This means if anything, more gear means more receptor sites in each cell cytosol meaning receptor competition would become less of a problem not more.
4) another possibility is assuming that AAS only works by direct activation of the androgen receptor. Once again we know that AAS can work through pathways outside of receptor activation. For instance the anti-glucocorticoid effects of AAS (anti-catabolism or anti-proteolysis). This indirect muscle building effect is not attributed to activation of the androgen receptor but the displacement of glucocorticoid from the glucocorticoid receptor which would signal the body to release stored protein. Another effect is saturation of skeletal muscle tissue with creatine phosphate. Elevated androgen levels, irrespective of the activation of their receptor, allows more creatine phosphate to be stored in skeletal muscle tissue. While obviously not a direct effect on muscle building, a more efficient anaerobic pathway means more efficient training means more muscle mass in the long run. Finally, AAS can increase IGF-1 levels, not all to the same degree, but again this is independent of activating the receptor.
Considering all the above that he hasn't saturated his androgen receptors, that androgen receptors can actually up regulate, that there are numerous indirect benefits for increased androgen levels (not activation), considering both receptor and hormone are allowed to bind more than once increasing the chance that the compound with weaker affinity will eventually bind to the AR, etc...should we even worry about receptor competition? I propose that we shouldn't for the above reasons.
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03-18-2014, 11:36 PM #44
^^^I would have simply said "there are enough to go around" lol.
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03-19-2014, 04:22 AM #45Banned
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03-19-2014, 07:22 AM #46
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03-19-2014, 04:26 PM #47New Member
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I was thinking of actually cutting out the NPP and just simply upping the test above 750 a week. And yes I am extremely lean definitely less than %8 body fat. I dont have a gut whatsoever, I know most of my gains is going to rely on my diet. Everyone looks at me strange because of the extent I go to, to gain weight. You can catch me eating a large can of dry tuna, no mayo without a smirk on my face.
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03-19-2014, 04:27 PM #48New Member
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Sorry about the double post.. But i know what it all comes down to. Its all about eating that extra meal, whether your hungry or not.
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Lots of test wont do shit either
It's like this:
food+workout+juice = size
time
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03-19-2014, 06:49 PM #50
Honestly a low dose test cycle helped me more than anything. And I've ran over 2.5 grams a week of aas....I honestly think its all how you eat and train. Gear will just give you a slight edge not much. No substitute for hard work there is just no easy way.
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I'm not really referring to saturation per say. What I'm getting at is if you have two compounds competing can the weaker binding compound occupy a meaningful amount of receptors to produce a favorable or noticeable effect that is intended?
If the compound can only occupy the AR in say a 1-3 ratio vs the strong binding compound, is it worth spending the extra money or worth the possible side effects? Can you possibly get the full effect out of that compound? That is my point. Is it worth the risk vs benefit?
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
Depressed? Healthy Way Out!
Tips For Young Lifters
MuscleScience Training Log
-
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
Depressed? Healthy Way Out!
Tips For Young Lifters
MuscleScience Training Log
-
Originally Posted by chadcuz1985
No matter the sauce it just depends on you. Diet & routine
I have gained more on just test and a near perfect diet than a bit of tren & eating shit. I lost strength due to sides from using too much. . . I always heard less is more from the vets but called BS. It's true - had to find out for myself. Lol
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03-20-2014, 12:24 PM #54New Member
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Is sustanon a better approach?
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03-20-2014, 12:25 PM #55New Member
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I was considering running Tren A, but i think its a little to serious than my level
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03-20-2014, 12:54 PM #56
You need to stop....and research for atleast a few months bro. In the meantime get your dietand training right. From your responses you have given steroids are not right for you at the time. No hate bro. .its just the truth and I know you will get mad but its for your own growth bro.
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03-20-2014, 12:56 PM #57
six pages in and now your taking about tren ! you really do love juice
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03-20-2014, 01:07 PM #58Banned
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03-20-2014, 01:57 PM #59New Member
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03-20-2014, 02:01 PM #60New Member
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07-28-2014, 04:27 PM #61
If you're going to take any kind of knowledge from this thread, listen to the last line of this post. There is no substitute for hard work. There is no easy way.
You always hear about everyone telling young people not to juice because of various health related issues, but I feel like another very good reason is because they haven't developed an iron lifestyle yet, and without the iron lifestyle, how you can retain any gains? You won't. You will only do well with this thing if you enjoy the hard work and the pain, and look forward to it every day. Don't be one of those guys who walks around with a bodybuilding.com checkoff sheet and a pen. Know what you have to do and work your ass off to where you're soaking wet when it's time to leave. You must willingly enjoy the work involved. You must use this as a stress reliever, not a reason to look good for summer.. That is what I believe.
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SVT and steroids?
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