Year round cycling

[jesse4466]

Does anyone here cycle year round and never come off? I continue to hear about the loss of gains when you come off.. So my guess is some stay on year round... Doesn't seem safe but just curious..

[m314]

I stay on year round. Most of the year I go with 200 mg/week test e along with HCG and aromasin . I do low dose cycles maybe twice a year, like 375 mg/week test with 40 mg/day var.

I made the choice to stay on 6 years ago when I was 33. It's the right choice for me, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for younger guys. It's a big commitment.

[jesse4466]

I stay on year round. Most of the year I go with 200 mg/week test e along with HCG and aromasin. I do low dose cycles maybe twice a year, like 375 mg/week test with 40 mg/day var. I made the choice to stay on 6 years ago when I was 33. It's the right choice for me, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for younger guys. It's a big commitment.

Is cholesterol and blood ok?

[MuscleInk]

Is cholesterol and blood ok?

I pushed the envelop and ran three consecutive cycles and ended up in the hospital ER 4 out of 5 days and had three medical procedures to correct a problem. Running actual cycles for continued periods without proper time off (or returning to a TRT dose) is dangerous and unnecessary.

Your body was not designed to be operating with extreme levels of testosterone for extended periods. If it was, our natural levels would be more elevated much later into old age.

That is why they are called "CYCLES", implying that you cycle on, cycle off, cycle on, cycle off, etc. It is also why we continually tell people:

- this is a marathon, not a race
- there are no quick results or solutions
- nutrition and training are far greater fundamentals to long term continued success
- this is a LIFESTYLE.

People looking for quick wins or who really aren't willing to stay committed to a long term fitness plan are better off taking up chess or lawn bowling. For many of the senior members here, this is a lifestyle and in many cases, a life long pursuit of better health and strength but not at the sacrifice of general health and well being.

If you abuse the drugs, you will eventually pay a price.

Even those who do not require TRT should avoid cruising and blasting and actually take the time to allow your body to rest, recover, and reset before running additional cycles.

[jesse4466]

I pushed the envelop and ran three consecutive cycles and ended up in the hospital ER 4 out of 5 days and had three medical procedures to correct a problem. Running actual cycles for continued periods without proper time off (or returning to a TRT dose) is dangerous and unnecessary. Your body was not designed to be operating with extreme levels of testosterone for extended periods. If it was, our natural levels would be more elevated much later into old age. That is why they are called "CYCLES", implying that you cycle on, cycle off, cycle on, cycle off, etc. It is also why we continually tell people: - this is a marathon, not a race - there are no quick results or solutions - nutrition and training are far greater fundamentals to long term continued success - this is a LIFESTYLE. People looking for quick wins or who really aren't willing to stay committed to a long term fitness plan are better off taking up chess or lawn bowling. For many of the senior members here, this is a lifestyle and in many cases, a life long pursuit of better health and strength but not at the sacrifice of general health and well being. If you abuse the drugs, you will eventually pay a price. Even those who do not require TRT should avoid cruising and blasting and actually take the time to allow your body to rest, recover, and reset before running additional cycles.

Yes, true. Progress not perfection.. My hope is that coming off cycle I don't lose too much. I understand dieting and training hard are key to maintaining muscle, but it seems some losses will be inevitable. Kind of annoying reality.. Like too good to be true thing. But I guess if I continue my calories and training I will have at least made good progress

[Cuz]

Not relevant but there is a guy on another board that cruises at 1g test e3d!! One gigantic dude.

I agree with MI in order to keep it safe you need to come off. Most guys that dont come off make their living in bodybuilding ...otherwise I couldn't justify staying on

[Jcz85]

I couldn't even imagine.... I'd probably end up a serial rapist

[jesse4466]

I couldn't even imagine.... I'd probably end up a serial rapist

That is funny. My wife caught me watching a lot of porn and we had several issues over it on cycle. I know what you mean.

[qscgugcsq]

Im one of the believer that testosterone in itself is safe. Even at high dose.

I decided to cruise at 500mg/week.

I keep an eye on my hematocrite/lipids/blood pressure/ estradiol.
BW every two months.

Even tren hasnt affected my.lipids much so im not worried for this.
My blood pressure is great.
My E2 was undercontrol last BW.
Hematocrite also.

Liver enzyme were a bit elevated.(im on accutane)

I dont recommend that kind of cruise. But if everyrhing is in check I dont belive testosterone in itself is dangerous. On the other hand.
Cycling make high variation.in hormones and require more anabolics to compasate the gain you would have made by cruising yearround.
If you cruise You dont have time were your hormones are ****ed up until they comes back.(lower than before where youll.end up trt anyway...)
They are always stable and it easy to manage E2 when you can have multiple BW. Compared to when you only do one during cycle.

From that perspective i believe cruising is safer + if you cruise st high dose no need to blast.

I think its arguable... Their is benefit and downside on both side. I personally decided to never come off and use high dose cruising.

As long as all my health marker and how I feel is good, I dont see why I would worry.

[m314]

Is cholesterol and blood ok?

Bloodwork is good right now with the exception of cholesterol. This will probably be my last anavar cycle just because of the HDL / LDL numbers. They'll go back to normal within a couple months after the end of the cycle. When I'm on test only, the bloodwork looks normal except for having total and free test a little over the top of the normal range.

[MuscleInk]

Im one of the believer that testosterone in itself is safe. Even at high dose.

I decided to cruise at 500mg/week.

I keep an eye on my hematocrite/lipids/blood pressure/ estradiol.
BW every two months.

Even tren hasnt affected my.lipids much so im not worried for this.
My blood pressure is great.
My E2 was undercontrol last BW.
Hematocrite also.

Liver enzyme were a bit elevated.(im on accutane)

I dont recommend that kind of cruise. But if everyrhing is in check I dont belive testosterone in itself is dangerous. On the other hand.
Cycling make high variation.in hormones and require more anabolics to compasate the gain you would have made by cruising yearround.
If you cruise You dont have time were your hormones are ****ed up until they comes back.(lower than before where youll.end up trt anyway...)
They are always stable and it easy to manage E2 when you can have multiple BW. Compared to when you only do one during cycle.

From that perspective i believe cruising is safer + if you cruise st high dose no need to blast.

I think its arguable... Their is benefit and downside on both side. I personally decided to never come off and use high dose cruising.

As long as all my health marker and how I feel is good, I dont see why I would worry.

Blood work is key. Many say they check it frequently, most do not.

Those higher doses will catch up to you.

[MuscleInk]

Yes, true. Progress not perfection.. My hope is that coming off cycle I don't lose too much. I understand dieting and training hard are key to maintaining muscle, but it seems some losses will be inevitable. Kind of annoying reality.. Like too good to be true thing. But I guess if I continue my calories and training I will have at least made good progress

Expect to lose a little. It happens to all of us - which is why one cycle is usually the start of many cycles.

Yes, nutrition is key but off cycle you will lose a bit. Look at it this way, after proper time off, if you run another cycle, you should be starting from a larger base and finishing at a larger base. It's a lot like building a house. It may be faster than one brick at a time, but even so, you don't finish a house in a day. Don't expect to be your biggest in once cycle.

Even the pros train for a good 5-6 years before they reach their best. Why should recreational users expect to do it faster when many don't have the discipline of a pro?

[< <Samson> >]

The bottom line is you are over driving your body.

Think of it as straight boost in a engine. Is it faster? Oh yeah - How long can it take it? Who knows


Monitoring ourselves is the only thing we can do. I have seen and heard of some wacky shit. A guy cruising on tren for over 2 years, yet still looked half assed. Another, running a g of test and almost the same in deca for over a year. A few just running 500mg year round.

Myself, I have run a lot of gear in the last few years. 6+ months of almost a g a week of tren along with other compounds. I have finally decided to drop off the tren and everything but test. Feeling just fine, everything is in check aside from lipid profiles which look like garbage - along with a elevated RBC count. BP is holding right @ 140/80

Now I am cruising on a 300mg of test e3d. Tapering down to as low as I can before I fall apart. Then slowly tapering back up to try to sustain lowest possible dosing while staying in one piece.

[MuscleInk]

The bottom line is you are over driving your body.

Think of it as straight boost in a engine. Is it faster? Oh yeah - How long can it take it? Who knows

Monitoring ourselves is the only thing we can do. I have seen and heard of some wacky shit. A guy cruising on tren for over 2 years, yet still looked half assed. Another, running a g of test and almost the same in deca for over a year. A few just running 500mg year round.

Myself, I have run a lot of gear in the last few years. 6+ months of almost a g a week of tren along with other compounds. I have finally decided to drop off the tren and everything but test. Feeling just fine, everything is in check aside from lipid profiles which look like garbage - along with a elevated RBC count. BP is holding right @ 140/80

Now I am cruising on a 300mg of test e3d. Tapering down to as low as I can before I fall apart. Then slowly tapering back up to try to sustain lowest possible dosing while staying in one piece.

Curious, is that 140/80 treated or untreated?

I ran a gram of tren and annihilated my lipids and BP and got to play patient.

[RangerDanger830]

A gram of tren and I'd probably in the hospital. I'm all about cycling, but not to the point of being overly detrimental to my health. I still wanna live a long life for my children.

I've ran over a gram of deca and test once and it's definitely a bad idea.

[< <Samson> >]

Curious, is that 140/80 treated or untreated?

Very treated

Running my usual Cialis @ 10mg per day along with fish oil & aspirin(been laying off the aspirin a bit)

[austinite]

Very treated

Running my usual Cialis @ 10mg per day along with fish oil & aspirin(been laying off the aspirin a bit)

Where have you been, whore?

[< <Samson> >]

Where have you been, whore?

Fuarking swelling & starting shit elsewhere

[Times Roman]

Does anyone here cycle year round and never come off? I continue to hear about the loss of gains when you come off.. So my guess is some stay on year round... Doesn't seem safe but just curious..

It would be unhealthy and reckless to stay on cycle year round.

[EquilibriumZ]

Im one of the believer that testosterone in itself is safe. Even at high dose.

I decided to cruise at 500mg/week.

I keep an eye on my hematocrite/lipids/blood pressure/ estradiol.
BW every two months.

Even tren hasnt affected my.lipids much so im not worried for this.
My blood pressure is great.
My E2 was undercontrol last BW.
Hematocrite also.

Liver enzyme were a bit elevated.(im on accutane)

I dont recommend that kind of cruise. But if everyrhing is in check I dont belive testosterone in itself is dangerous. On the other hand.
Cycling make high variation.in hormones and require more anabolics to compasate the gain you would have made by cruising yearround.
If you cruise You dont have time were your hormones are ****ed up until they comes back.(lower than before where youll.end up trt anyway...)
They are always stable and it easy to manage E2 when you can have multiple BW. Compared to when you only do one during cycle.

From that perspective i believe cruising is safer + if you cruise st high dose no need to blast.

I think its arguable... Their is benefit and downside on both side. I personally decided to never come off and use high dose cruising.

As long as all my health marker and how I feel is good, I dont see why I would worry.

Wow how long have you been trting with 500mg?

Out of curiosity, you pay your own bloodwork or what?

[< <Samson> >]

In the grand scheme of things 500mg isn't as much as you think

We become very used to the crap we pump in our body & it just becomes normal.


I haven't been on less than 500mg per week in about a year I think. But, I am finally pulling back now - BW is always out of pocket, it's not that expensive if you know where to look or have a homey hook up with someone working in Dr's Office

[EquilibriumZ]

In the grand scheme of things 500mg isn't as much as you think

We become very used to the crap we pump in our body & it just becomes normal.

I haven't been on less than 500mg per week in about a year I think. But, I am finally pulling back now - BW is always out of pocket, it's not that expensive if you know where to look or have a homey hook up with someone working in Dr's Office

Well with 500mg, your body can hold ALOT more muscle than a natural level of 100mg for the same person no? (Assuming the training and nutrition is optimal).
Lets say if a person max weight is 180lbs 5%bf 100mg test.
His genetic limit would be much higher and hold max weight of 200lbs 5%bf at 500mg test for life.

^ is this right?

[< <Samson> >]

Well with 500mg, your body can hold ALOT more muscle than a natural level of 100mg for the same person no? (Assuming the training and nutrition is optimal).
Lets say if a person max weight is 180lbs 5%bf 100mg test.
His genetic limit would be much higher and hold max weight of 200lbs 5%bf at 500mg test for life.

^ is this right?

Good question

Kinda what I am trying out on myself ATM. I would suppose so, since the bigger the juicer the more test they run year round. But, it has to only go so far.

Best I can say is trial & error. We're all so different, I have seen guys who run gear damn near year round but still look like me, if not fatter or smaller.


Genetics play a huge role on how the sauce reacts throughout our bodies. Just like some get awful sides, yet some don't - even at higher doses.

[tdoe11]

Very good thread. I stay on most of the time. I keep my cycles pretty modest, usually around 500-750 test and a secondary compound sometimes a low dose oral. I do how ever quit for anywhere In between two weeks and two months in between cycles. Sometimes I will cruise at 150-200 for a month or so to Actually today I have one month off of everything . The reason I say I stay on most of the time is half lives. I will almost always have some amount of testosterone in my blood one month after my last injection. This way I don't end up losing hardly any gains, but I still give my body a slight chance to recover lipids, CBC, liver, stuff like that. Blood work is very very important and cheap!!

My body has not produced its own natural testosterone in a few years though. I do know one day I have a heck of a bad time coming, not today though. IMO what I am doing is most likely not a good idea, if you can come off and recover natural production do it. I assume I am more or less committing to a life of TRT and I accept that.

Gains are awesome, but muscle is not permanent. Unfortunately the side effects of use/abuse sometimes can be permanent. Longevity is key

[qscgugcsq]

Wow how long have you been trting with 500mg?

Out of curiosity, you pay your own bloodwork or what?

I just started that dose, prior I was cruising at 250mg. When I saw my BW were great I just said **** it and increased it.

But if my Bw are always that good I plan on staying there for years.

I dont pay for my BW.
My DR. Give them to me.

[jesse4466]

It would be hard to guess what the pros do year round... I can't even imagine.

[jesse4466]

(The following story is excerpted from the July, 2005 issue of FLEX magazine. In it, champion IFBB bodybuilder Mike Matarazzo discusses his recent heart surgery and his use of performance enhancing drugs.) I used to believe that I was 100% healthy, but those days are gone, and I'm angry, because I did it to myself. How? Oh, god, where do I begin? I'd have to say that everything that led to my heart problem began the minute I started getting serious about competitive bodybuilding. In order to get bigger, I'd eat five, six, seven pounds of red meat a day, no vegetables. And I'd stay away from fruits because of their sugar. Worst were the chemicals. I have so many memories of being alone in a hotel room the week, five days or two days before a contest, and doing unspeakable things to my body--steroids , growth hormones, diuretics--anything and everything that we as bodybuilders do to achieve a certain look. The greatest danger, though, is that, while dieting and training stay the same through the years, there's a compulsion to experiment more wildly with chemicals. Every day, guys are on the phone asking who's using what, where are they getting it, how are they mixing it? There are guys out there who are being paid big money by pros to mix special concoctions for them. I remember being all over the world, a few nights before a contest, putting chemicals into my body, knowing I was hurting myself, but I did whatever it took to attain a "look."

...crazy.

[Mp859]

(The following story is excerpted from the July, 2005 issue of FLEX magazine. In it, champion IFBB bodybuilder Mike Matarazzo discusses his recent heart surgery and his use of performance enhancing drugs.) I used to believe that I was 100% healthy, but those days are gone, and I'm angry, because I did it to myself. How? Oh, god, where do I begin? I'd have to say that everything that led to my heart problem began the minute I started getting serious about competitive bodybuilding. In order to get bigger, I'd eat five, six, seven pounds of red meat a day, no vegetables. And I'd stay away from fruits because of their sugar. Worst were the chemicals. I have so many memories of being alone in a hotel room the week, five days or two days before a contest, and doing unspeakable things to my body--steroids, growth hormones, diuretics--anything and everything that we as bodybuilders do to achieve a certain look. The greatest danger, though, is that, while dieting and training stay the same through the years, there's a compulsion to experiment more wildly with chemicals. Every day, guys are on the phone asking who's using what, where are they getting it, how are they mixing it? There are guys out there who are being paid big money by pros to mix special concoctions for them. I remember being all over the world, a few nights before a contest, putting chemicals into my body, knowing I was hurting myself, but I did whatever it took to attain a "look." ...crazy.

The amount of red meat he ate is just ridiculous on its own. You still never see a mention of the insulin .

[qscgugcsq]

I would still blame his diet/diuretics and insulin use before any steroids abuse...

If he truly ate that much meat with so few vegetable and micronutrient.
His health issue IMO cant be directly link to steroids use...

Of course steroids is a risk factor.
As is bad dieting, not training, smoking, drinking, recreationnal drug use.

Imo you can choice one of them(except smoking...) and be pretty healthy... Even street drugs in moderation are not THAT harmfull in itself...
The real danger is when you mix thing.
Steroids+alcohol **** your liver
Steroids + bad diet **** your lipids and more
Bad diet+ no exercise diabete, heart condition and way way more.

Each one alone if the others arent there is pretty safe.

So IMO even steroids ABUSE is safe if everyother risk factor are diminish to maximum with the right precaution taken.

Like I said I wouldnt blame his steroid use for his condition.
But we all know that pro bodybuilding require unhealthy amount of everything.

But its an interesting read.

[jesse4466]

The amount of red meat he ate is just ridiculous on its own. You still never see a mention of the insulin.

Yeah he said he never took insulin .

[jesse4466]

I would still blame his diet/diuretics and insulin use before any steroids abuse... If he truly ate that much meat with so few vegetable and micronutrient. His health issue IMO cant be directly link to steroids use... Of course steroids is a risk factor. As is bad dieting, not training, smoking, drinking, recreationnal drug use. Imo you can choice one of them(except smoking...) and be pretty healthy... Even street drugs in moderation are not THAT harmfull in itself... The real danger is when you mix thing. Steroids+alcohol **** your liver Steroids + bad diet **** your lipids and more Bad diet+ no exercise diabete, heart condition and way way more. Each one alone if the others arent there is pretty safe. So IMO even steroids ABUSE is safe if everyother risk factor are diminish to maximum with the right precaution taken. Like I said I wouldnt blame his steroid use for his condition. But we all know that pro bodybuilding require unhealthy amount of everything. But its an interesting read.

Yeah diuretics and diet for sure.. That red meat alone with nothing else could have been a recipe for his clogged arteries.

[Mp859]

Yeah he said he never took insulin.

That is hard to believe. For some reason there is a stigma around it. After these guys are done and come out about their drugs use they still dance around the insulin

[< <Samson> >]

It would be hard to guess what the pros do year round... I can't even imagine.

G's per week

[Cuz]

Nobody really knows what the pros take except for themselves .

[qscgugcsq]

Nobody really knows what the pros take except for themselves .

Well... A Professionnal srongman I know use over 1.3g of test + 200-700mg tren /weeks plus 50-100mg anadrol daily.
Keep in mind thats a worlds class strongman with elite genetics.

I think its pretty safe to assume that bodybuilders use same or more with other drugs.

So I think its reasonable to assume they all use over 1.5g of gear combined.
We all know HGH is part of there stack with insulin .
Diuretic is used also with many thermogenics(clen /T3/thermogenics)

I agree except of being told first hand we cant know exactly.

But their is reasonable assumption that can be done for most of them.

[davesah1]

You guys think that yo-yoing your hormones three times a year with PCT for a prolonged time is better than staying on moderate dose test such as 300 or less and then eventually coming down to TRT range at the approriate age and/or when your health requires you to?
You don't completely recover after coming off cycle until 2 months at least, so three cycles a year plus PCT seems to be a bit nonsensical.
Wouldn't consistently restarting your hormones via serms affect your overall health in the long run?
I feel the PCT route is best for those run 2 cycles or less a year for 12 weeks or less.
Bloodwork, prudence, and a competent primary care physician will minimize your risk.
Better be prepared for TRT tho.
I think it depends on your lifestyle, goals, and amount of time you plan on using AAS.
Theres really aren't on studies on either but I'm just spit balling.

[< <Samson> >]

It all depends on who you are & what you want.

Before starting sauce 3 years ago I had a sex drive of a 60 year old and strength of a 50 year old. Never used juice & never did anything other than hit the gym every few days.

Had my test #'s pulled & I was low, but not too low. Felt half assed & srsly just had no drive.

Started the sauce - felt like I did when I was 20. PCT'd 2x & just fell apart. Let it fly & seen how things went. I returned to pre-juice state as far as energy and ED.


So, I decided to get on & stay on. I was just talking to my woman about this. She agreed, I am way better off - in the long run who knows. But, if you feel like crap, can't get it up & are borderline depressed year round why put up with it even if you are prolonging your life. It's a life of half assed self - Yet this does not mean I should pump a g of test year round. The lower the better as long as you're staying intact.

[jesse4466]

It all depends on who you are & what you want. Before starting sauce 3 years ago I had a sex drive of a 60 year old and strength of a 50 year old. Never used juice & never did anything other than hit the gym every few days. Had my test #'s pulled & I was low, but not too low. Felt half assed & srsly just had no drive. Started the sauce - felt like I did when I was 20. PCT'd 2x & just fell apart. Let it fly & seen how things went. I returned to pre-juice state as far as energy and ED. So, I decided to get on & stay on. I was just talking to my woman about this. She agreed, I am way better off - in the long run who knows. But, if you feel like crap, can't get it up & are borderline depressed year round why put up with it even if you are prolonging your life. It's a life of half assed self - Yet this does not mean I should pump a g of test year round. The lower the better as long as you're staying intact.

My guess is there's a good number of people who stay on..For the same reasons as you mentioned.

[m314]

It all depends on who you are & what you want.

Before starting sauce 3 years ago I had a sex drive of a 60 year old and strength of a 50 year old. Never used juice & never did anything other than hit the gym every few days.

Had my test #'s pulled & I was low, but not too low. Felt half assed & srsly just had no drive.

Started the sauce - felt like I did when I was 20. PCT'd 2x & just fell apart. Let it fly & seen how things went. I returned to pre-juice state as far as energy and ED.


So, I decided to get on & stay on. I was just talking to my woman about this. She agreed, I am way better off - in the long run who knows. But, if you feel like crap, can't get it up & are borderline depressed year round why put up with it even if you are prolonging your life. It's a life of half assed self - Yet this does not mean I should pump a g of test year round. The lower the better as long as you're staying intact.

That's why I decided to stay on. In my early 30s, I noticed a decline in my sex drive and overall motivation to accomplish my goals in life. I tried a few test boosters that reminded me what it felt like to be young and full of life.

My total and free testosterone numbers weren't clinically low, but they were towards the bottom end of the normal range. I decided I'd rather live the rest of my life with high testosterone levels. It was the right decision for me. No regrets. I noticed a big difference in how I felt starting with the first injection.

[mewalrus]

Michael Richard Matarazzo (born November 8, 1965 - August 16, 2014[1]) was a former American IFBB professional bodybuilder.