4th Cycle: Critiques and Opinions

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 10:50 AM

Hello everyone.
First my stats
I am 25, I have run three cycles. My last cycle ended in Feb-March and I have been off ever since.
I am 190 pounds, 6'1 at 9-10% BF last check (At 193). Blood work came back normal following my cycle and I just had it rechecked after many months off cycle and all values are normal with test back in the initial range it was prior to starting my last cycle.

My diet and training is on point. I track my macros, follow a PHAT style training program and I am the leanest I have ever been. I started off with a skinny fat physique when I first started lifting and mainly bulked on my first two cycles. While it lead to increases in size and some body fat loss, I was never really to the point of being super lean so I targeted that look after coming off in March. With that said, now that my abs are fully visible and vascularity is there, I have no desire to get even leaner.

As mentioned, I did most of this cut naturally and I have lost a good amount of size from where I was. The goal this time around will be to slowly add mass while limiting body fat gain (likely around 1 pound per week for the entirety of the cycle).

From March until last month, I was on Accutane to deal with some acne I have had way back from my very first cycle where I didn't control estrogen and had no idea what I was doing. The accutane worked beautifully and as I have been off it for a month now, I am ready to cycle again. Honestly, no accutane horror stories, apart from chapped lips, i personally had zero issues.

Cycle length wise, I am looking at doing a long cycle to steadily add mass and the plan is outlined below. Feel free to offer your critiques as this is not set in stone. Very very simple cycle with anabolics I react well too and a long time frame which I prefer.

Weeks 1-20
Test E: 500 mg per week
AI: Arimidex 0.5 mg EOD
Kick-starter
Var: 50-60 mg a day (Weeks 1-4)
Var: 50-60 mg a day (Weeks 10-14)

Weeks 20-25
Test E: 250 mg per week
Arimidex: 0.5 mg EOD
HCG : 500 iu twice per week to get testicles to regain their size and set me up for recovery. Or I could incorporate this from week 15 until 25 at 250 iu per week, feel free to provide opinions.

Week 27-33: PCT
Clomid: 4 weeks: 100/50/50/50
Nolva: 6 weeks: 40/40/20/20/20/20

Thanks!

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 01:03 PM

Lots of views but no comments, did I post in the wrong area? Not provide enough info? Someone clue me in please

**Rida5d** · 12-21-2014, 01:08 PM

I didn't go through all the thread , but don't u think that 25 weeks is little bit long?
The more you are on , the more recovery is an issue..

Why are u tapering ur test dosage ?

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 01:14 PM

Good question, mainly because I want to bulk super slowly and minimize fat gains. I find that when i have the usual 10-12 week blast, it becomes a "gain weight by any means" necessary process and while I will gain 20-25 pounds, it definitely isn't mostly muscle mass which leads to long/shitty cutting phases. So this time around, I want to gain around the same as I usually do EXCEPT do it at a pound or pound and half per week.

25 weeks also allows me to throw in a mini-cut (probably when test dose tapers down) if necessary.

Tapering the dose down to 250 mg so it brings me closer to natural levels and will be using HCG at the same time to set up for a successful PCT. This method is what I did last time and was able to recover so figured I would follow the exact same protocol.

**Rida5d** · 12-21-2014, 01:21 PM

I have to disagree with that ..
Gaining fat is related to ur diet , not ur dosage , nor length of cycle

Eat below ur tdee then you are cutting..
Eat over ur tdee then you are bulking.. And here u should be wise..

One more thing , tapering is an old school approach , It will never lead to a (smoother) recovery..

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 01:27 PM

You are right but that's what I mean about gaining weight slowly. It is nutrition dependent not dose dependant so stretching out the cycle will allow me to just focus on slow weight gain based on eating above my TDEE. I won't be rushing it just overeating is what I was trying to say

I am currently tracking my macros and I maintain my weight at about 3500 calories (200 g protein, 80 g fat, 500 g carbs). I will be adding a surplus of about 500 calories (all from carbohydrates and protein so 100 g additional carbs and 25 g protein) to my current macros and monitor my weigh ins and continue to add carbs/protein when weight gain slows down along the way to achieve the results I want.

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 01:28 PM

So would you recommend just staying at 500 mg through the entire cycle while adding in the HCG at 500 iu twice per week for the last five weeks?

**Rida5d** · 12-21-2014, 01:46 PM

IMHO , if recovery is an issue , i ll never do a 25 year old cycle.. Specially that I'm 40

Anyways , the length of the cycle is ur call...

Pick a dose , and stick to it .. And yes run hcg at 250* 2 per week and start from week one..

I was wondering , that's ur 4th cycle at the age of 25 , right??
When was ur first cycle? Are u sure u didn't screw urself already ?

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 01:58 PM

First cycle at 21 man....looking back, stupid decision at the time but I recovered. Not sure what you mean about screwing myself though. I have had blood work done before, during and post cycle for every cycle I have done. My test levels always are back around the same baselines levels they were at before I even did my first cycle every time.

**Rida5d** · 12-21-2014, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by swaggypzero

First cycle at 21 man....looking back, stupid decision at the time but I recovered. Not sure what you mean about screwing myself though. I have had blood work done before, during and post cycle for every cycle I have done. My test levels always are back around the same baselines levels they were at before I even did my first cycle every time.

Great if you bounced back..
Just don't push ur luck and go insane in your future cycles , your body was forgiving as you got back to the same levels ..be thankful to it..

Good luck

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 02:21 PM

noted, thank you. So based on your post, what would a more reasonable cycle look like? When you say "insane future cycles" you mean just don't be stupid and go high dose?

I have only tried Test E, Test Prop, EQ, Anavar and Dbol . I find Test E and Anavar are the two that I am most comfortable with. Never messed around with Tren and I don't think I will until I properly research and prepare myself well down the line.

**Buster Brown** · 12-21-2014, 02:21 PM

I would run the dex @ .25 eod and hcg @ 250 ius twice a week right through 3 days prior to pct. I would extend the clo an extra week. I would shoot for a 14 weeker and see where you are at....if you are still gaining then extend it in increments of 2 weeks. No need for the mini cruise at the end....start your recovery.

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 02:22 PM

Others opinions on the following set-up?

Weeks 1-20
Test E: 500 mg per week
AI: Arimidex 0.5 mg EOD

Var: 50-60 mg a day (Weeks 1-4)
Var: 50-60 mg a day (Weeks 10-14)

Weeks 20-25
Test E: 500 mg per week
Arimidex: 0.5 mg EOD
HCG : 500 iu twice per week to get testicles to regain their size and set me up for recovery

Week 27-33: PCT
Clomid: 4 weeks: 100/50/50/50
Nolva: 6 weeks: 40/40/20/20/20/20

**Rida5d** · 12-21-2014, 02:25 PM

Like buster brown said.. If recovery is an issue , I would go for a 14 weeks cycle.. Not one day more.. As u know that's a personal decision

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

I would run the dex @ .25 eod and hcg @ 250 ius twice a week right through 3 days prior to pct. I would extend the clo an extra week. I would shoot for a 14 weeker and see where you are at....if you are still gaining then extend it in increments of 2 weeks. No need for the mini cruise at the end....start your recovery.

Good advice. I could definitely re-assess after 14 weeks.
Your point about Adex raises a question I had. Does your body fat level and weight effect how much Adex you should take? I was heavier in previous cycles and 0.5 worked okay but now at a much lower body fat and weight, you think I will be okay with 0.25 EOD?
Also, aside from a longer, rougher recovery, are there other drawbacks to longer cycles?

**swaggypzero** · 12-21-2014, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rida5d

Like buster brown said.. If recovery is an issue , I would go for a 14 weeks cycle.. Not one day more.. As u know that's a personal decision

Thanks for your help! Much appreciated.

**swaggypzero** · 12-22-2014, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by swaggypzero

Good advice. I could definitely re-assess after 14 weeks.
Your point about Adex raises a question I had. Does your body fat level and weight effect how much Adex you should take? I was heavier in previous cycles and 0.5 worked okay but now at a much lower body fat and weight, you think I will be okay with 0.25 EOD?
Also, aside from a longer, rougher recovery, are there other drawbacks to longer cycles?

Hey man, any update on this??

Thanks

**Rida5d** · 12-23-2014, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by swaggypzero

Hey man, any update on this??

Thanks

Dosage is related to how much you aromatase and respond to test.. And usually fat people tend to aromatase more ..
I myself take .5 mg Adex with 500 Mgs test / week and it works well in general for me.. Some people control estrogen on .25

The best advice is to start on the lower dosage, have a blood test.. And adjust upon the blood readings.

On a side not and With all respect , if that's your 4th cycle , you should at least know the AI dosage to make things right for u..

**swaggypzero** · 12-23-2014, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by Rida5d

Dosage is related to how much you aromatase and respond to test.. And usually fat people tend to aromatase more ..
I myself take .5 mg Adex with 500 Mgs test / week and it works well in general for me.. Some people control estrogen on .25

The best advice is to start on the lower dosage, have a blood test.. And adjust upon the blood readings.

On a side not and With all respect , if that's your 4th cycle , you should at least know the AI dosage to make things right for u..

I have always used 0.5 which was fine as indicated above. Just wanted to get confirmation of potentially lowering the dose.

Thanks