Heres a darn good question for the steroid experts!

[MR BICEPS]

Okay lets say I want to get big by cycling the steroids on an equal time on time off program. For example 10 weeks on equals 10 weeks off.

Heres my newbie question: Will I continue to gain a little more muscle each cycle? In other words do guys just blow back up to their previous weight only to lose the water weight and do it all over again, or should I be gaining say 3 to 5 lbs of new muscle on each cycle after my first two cycles? In other words can you continue to add muscle to the frame with extended steroid use through cycling rather than staying on all year like the pro's do?If so isnt it mostly through an increase in calories and protein while on a cycle?
I already know about the use of clomid post cycle so theres no need in going there.

Thank you

[Pete235]

If done properly you should be able to gain and keep some muscle every cycle. However, the amount gained and kept will decrease exponentially the more cycles you do. That's why everybody says your first is your best. At that point your receptors are fresh and you body is primed for the growth that accompanies the introduction of synthetic muscle building anabolics and androgenics. However, eventually, receptors become saturated and breaks are recommended. Also, the body has an affinity for adapting to change. It will eventually become accustomed to the drugs and dosages and growth will slowly decrease.

Other factors that determone what you keep is how well you have planned your cycle. If you cycle a single oral such as dianabol or anadrol the likelihood is you will gain alot of size and strength quickly but it will be water and will go away almost as quickly when administration is discontinued. That is why we cycle drugs (fast and slow acting esters, anabolics and androgenics).

Some keys to keeping muscle are making sure that during your off time you train just as hard and diet just as strict as if you were on. Also, be sure to use OTC supps such as creatine, glutamine, multi-vitamins and whey protein.

[motoxxxguy]

Kinda like "two steps forward, one step back."

-moto

[MBaraso]

If your happy with some good muscle gains once or twice a year w/ the expected "loss" post cycle (which most of us are) that's fine.
BUT....If you truely wanna be a freak then reserve yourself to fact that your going to have to be on 8-9 months (or longer) out of the year.

[tony_canuck]

also, there has to be a level where gains are at or near the end. how big can man grow,even with all the supps out there??

Then again, there are always guys willing to blow the top off the charts. will we ever see a 500lb guy ripped at the Mr.O?? Who knows....

[JohnnyB]

Your question has more then one right answer. There are a few ways to go, when juicing. I'll talk about 2 of them. You can go all out or go slow. When you go all out, there's a higher possibility for side effects and water weight gain. Going slow, your gains may not be as much as the going all out cycle. But when it's all said and done how much weight do you keep. I think that's the main thing your looking for what you keep not what you gain.

I think big gain can bring big problems, if your doing big doses, your chance for side effects increases. Then come into play anti-e's, which can help with bloat and gyno. But if your doing that much juice that your receptors won't accept all of it, your wasting juice IMO. Your not gain more muscle because your doing more gear. Your just putting your body through some changes it doesn't need to go through. If you do a d-bol, deca and test cycle for your first, you've hit your receptors from all angles. Hopefully your gains did bring any sides and your won't lose to much of your gains. But where do you go from here, add another drug, replace a drug or raise your doses.

I believe this go for broke method, brings you to high dose cycle faster, with side effect coming sooner too.

Here something I've been thinking about, I'm no Dr so it just my thoughts. Your body has a defense mechanism in it. That sends water to an injured area. Deca and d-bol causes water retention, is something being damaged, is that why they cause water retention? I dunno just a thought. But if some has the answer I'd like to know, cause it's something I've been thinking about for a while now. But I will admit it's the first time I've posted it.

Sorry about that back to the post.

The slow gains method, you use a dose of one drug at low to moderate. Your chance of side effects is lowered quite a bit. Now if your prone to a certain side effect, then you'll get it. You'd need prevention for sure. I think the least amount of different drugs you take and still gain the better off you are. Your gain may not be as big as the go for broke method, but more of your gains are keepable.

Now for your second you can use a drug that will hit your receptors from a different angle. It would almost be like 2 first cycles, I did say almost Then for your third you could add d-bol and you'll be where the go for broke cycler was in his first cycle in your third. Still getting gains from a new drug added to your cycle.

This way you've let your body react to one drug at a time, to help minimize side effects. You've also aloud your body to make gains from each new drug. Which helps to know how your body reacts to each one.

Your gains may not be huge, but water weight will be minimal as well. And you didn't put your body through the excess water weight. Which could cause problem in and of it's self.

Just one mans opinion. I think you figured out which one I like.

JohnnyB

[Billy_Bathgate]

I use PROPER anti-es. I use a good recovery program. I always gain, and dont lose. Then again I get blood work, and do longer 15-20wks cycles.

Maybe im special...lol

Or know what Im doin

You have to learn to ADJUST your training and diet constantly, always constantly. If you dont, your gains will lack and then you will THINK to blame receptors (nope).

[MR BICEPS]

Okay I've never used an antiestrogen. I was told by a local semi-pro that anti -es decrease the effectiveness of the steroid itself and was told to stay off of it unless I was prone to get gyno from excess estrogen build up.
I did notice some swelling in my lower legs during my last cycle. Maybe I should try anti-es and add d-bol to my next cycle. Should I use liquid LIQUID D-BOL? I dont want to take a chance with my liver on orals. Any reccomnedations?

And thanks to everyone for all the sound advise!

[Gettin'Old]

Billy Bathgate, I think I recall reading you don't use hcg . I've got clomid for my post cycle but no hcg. I'm 34. I'm really, really hopeful I bounce back quick from my first cycle, even without hcg. Can you give me any more info on your protocal. Do you have any of the issues I'm reading about like loss of libido ??

Thanks.