I Think It's Time To Juice

[Mykl]

I have some questions about setting up for my first cycle but first I suppose you guys will want to know a bit about me before you can advise...

I'm thirty eight and I've been training regularly since I was fifteen. For the last few years I've been doing two leg workouts and one upper body workout per week with cardio training on the days between and the weights are going up less slowly than ever! I've learned a lot about my body's responses and tried various nutrition strategies, discovering that I make more progress without supplements and relying on fresh food. I'm around 15% body fat (it's winter) and fairly happy with my upper body and thigh development. I'd like a little more there but I'm happy for that to develop naturally over the next few decades. What i'm really not happy about is my calfs. I've tried everything (except steroids ). High volume low weight, low volume high weight and everything in between, drop sets, increasing weights, decreasing weights, pyramids, rest pause, decreasing rest periods... I cycle through various calf training strategies to keep things fresh and although every workout burns like boiling water injected in the tissues they just. don't. grow. My calfs are rock solid, with shape and cut, but they're just not big enough.
I feel that I've developed a good foundation of natural muscle, people can see that I'm athletic and training is the most important part of my life but I just don't yield the results I should. I've avoided steroids all this time but now I feel it's the only way to get what I want. If I could just add a couple of inches I'd be so much happier about my physique. So, here are my questions:

1) What should I take and how much? I know that fast gains are likely to disappear after the cycle so I want to do it right and build muscle that lasts without being on steroids for the rest of my life. I'd also rather avoid something that boosts the libido as I"m single and don't see that changing any time soon. I also don't want to risk something that's likely to cause penis shrinkage or breast growth as I'm one of those people who's life if governed by Murphy's Law.
2) How long should the cycle last?
3) How often should I train my calfs? If I have to train my calfs five days a week then I will.
4) How do I ensure I get quality product in the UK?
5) If you guys recommend I take supplements as well then I'll do that, as long as I can find stuff that's not just flavoured powder that relies on placebo effect!

I hope you guys can help me.

[Cody95]

I have some questions about setting up for my first cycle but first I suppose you guys will want to know a bit about me before you can advise...

I'm thirty eight and I've been training regularly since I was fifteen. For the last few years I've been doing two leg workouts and one upper body workout per week with cardio training on the days between and the weights are going up less slowly than ever! I've learned a lot about my body's responses and tried various nutrition strategies, discovering that I make more progress without supplements and relying on fresh food. I'm around 15% body fat (it's winter) and fairly happy with my upper body and thigh development. I'd like a little more there but I'm happy for that to develop naturally over the next few decades. What i'm really not happy about is my calfs. I've tried everything (except steroids ). High volume low weight, low volume high weight and everything in between, drop sets, increasing weights, decreasing weights, pyramids, rest pause, decreasing rest periods... I cycle through various calf training strategies to keep things fresh and although every workout burns like boiling water injected in the tissues they just. don't. grow. My calfs are rock solid, with shape and cut, but they're just not big enough.
I feel that I've developed a good foundation of natural muscle, people can see that I'm athletic and training is the most important part of my life but I just don't yield the results I should. I've avoided steroids all this time but now I feel it's the only way to get what I want. If I could just add a couple of inches I'd be so much happier about my physique. So, here are my questions:

1) What should I take and how much? I know that fast gains are likely to disappear after the cycle so I want to do it right and build muscle that lasts without being on steroids for the rest of my life. I'd also rather avoid something that boosts the libido as I"m single and don't see that changing any time soon. I also don't want to risk something that's likely to cause penis shrinkage or breast growth as I'm one of those people who's life if governed by Murphy's Law.
2) How long should the cycle last?
3) How often should I train my calfs? If I have to train my calfs five days a week then I will.
4) How do I ensure I get quality product in the UK?
5) If you guys recommend I take supplements as well then I'll do that, as long as I can find stuff that's not just flavoured powder that relies on placebo effect!

I hope you guys can help me.

Stats?

[Oki-Des]

First, welcome to the forum and someone will post a link to first cycle planning soon for you. Also, no can can predict if you will get gyno but there are things you can do to prevent it that will laid out in the link. Also, no one on here can offer a location to get quality gear. We offer good info, but not sources. Also, you do not have to train your calves five time a week. We all reach plateaus and natural limits, which is where testosterone can help. I am sure more people will chime in shortly. Good luck!

[Jesusbrah]

You have alot to learn! Start with this:
Austinite's Educational Article Database

[Mykl]

Stats:
Height: 5'10
Weight: 165lbs
Chest: 42"
Arms: 14.5"
Calfs 14.75"
Thighs: 23"
Waist: 30"
Bodyfat: 15%
Age: 38
Training length: 23 years.

Also, no one on here can offer a location to get quality gear.

I know you aren't allowed to recommend sources. I actually asked how I know I'm getting quality gear. There is an advert at the top of the page for anabolics.com. Can I ask questions about them?

You have alot to learn! Start with this:

I'm not denying that! Thanks for the link, that's a hell of a lot to read.

[Euroholic]

Hey mate. Not a pun at you but after 23 years your still quite on the light side. How much are you eating a day?

[Red Bastard]

... There is an advert at the top of the page for anabolics.com. Can I ask questions about them?
.

Yes you can, because they don't sell real steroids ...

[Haydenz]

you are 74 kilos and at 15% bf, which im sure is higher than what you say, You are sitting on about 61 kilos of muscle, you havent been training for 23 years.

[Mykl]

Hey mate. Not a pun at you but after 23 years your still quite on the light side. How much are you eating a day?

I don't see a pun in that. I eat about 2,500 if I don't train at all, which really only happens if I go away. Yes, I control my calories on holiday. Add a few hundred extra on weight days, take a few hundred off on cardio days.

you are 74 kilos and at 15% bf, which im sure is higher than what you say, You are sitting on about 61 kilos of muscle, you havent been training for 23 years.

I don't appreciate being called a liar, but I also appreciate that you don't know me. There is such a thing as a hard gainer. You should see my wrists and ankles, they're like toothpicks. If you believe maximum girth can be calculated from wrist and ankle diameter then I've already exceeded my potential. Also, I see no point in building up massive arms if my calfs don't match. I won't let my arms grow until my calfs grow, and as noted in my OP, that isn't happening. The most important thing to me is a balanced physique.

I've kept my weight constant for the last five or six years but gained strength and the callipers are showing a reduction in fat levels over this period. I've just looked at my records and those guide pics of fat levels and I'm actually closer to 12% than 15% but I can't be accurate. Callipers show my leanest site is 3mm and my fattest is 19mm. My abs have 16mm.

Yes, I'm on the light side for someone that's been at it for 23 years. That's why I want juice.

Yes you can, because they don't sell real steroids...

Ah, I think I see. So I can ask about sources of pro hormones because they're legal? If so, would I be allowed to ask about sources of pro hormones in the UK? (Note: I'm not asking for sources, I'm just asking if I can ask! I don't want to get banned)

[Jesusbrah]

I don't appreciate being called a liar, but I also appreciate that you don't know me. There is such a thing as a hard gainer. You should see my wrists and ankles, they're like toothpicks. If you believe maximum girth can be calculated from wrist and ankle diameter then I've already exceeded my potential. Also, I see no point in building up massive arms if my calfs don't match. I won't let my arms grow until my calfs grow, and as noted in my OP, that isn't happening. The most important thing to me is a balanced physique.

Hahahaha, i havent laughed so hard in a long time! Ridiculous.

I have worked out for 6-7 years, and in that time i have gained about 50-60 lbs of muscle. Now, you have worked out for 23 years. and apparently gained nothing. Have you never thought that you may be doing something wrong?

You eat 2500 kcal! Theres your problem! Youre not a hardgainer, youre not cursed, youre not unlucky, bla bla bla. Youre not eating enough!!!

[zempey]

Welcome, try not to get caught up in the banter, it happens, you will learn how to navigate around it once here for a while.

My advice to you is, eat more for starters, you need to up your calories a bit and see if that starts to spark some growth, check in at the diet section and let the gurus there help you out. Next, and this is just my own personal experience, if you want your calves to grow, put more size on your arms. I don't know if it is just me or human physiology, but my calves and arms always stay fairly balanced and my calves wont get bigger unless my arms do. You have plenty of room to grow, get your arms up to 16" and I bet the calves follow. To do this you will need to eat more clean whole foods, your body will respond well to the food since your base is solid and muscle is mature, it is just waiting for some extra fuel so it can get bigger. Adjust the diet and training and I bet you will start to see what you are looking for.

Stick around and read, there is so much great info on this board and a lot of very knowledgeable people who are dedicated to this lifestyle eager to help new guys figure out what is holding them back. This really is a great community, hope to see you around on the boards.

[cucu]

I eat about 2,500 if I don't train at all

Your basal cals would be around 1800 (thats if you sleep all day). On a rest day, that would go to 2200-2300. On a training day that could go over 2600. With such a surplus on rest and deficit on training days I would be amazed if I saw a mass gain. Thats what I understand from what the other people are trying to say, no offense, no one says you are lying.

Let me say that. A typical cycle lasts what, 12 weeks plus 6? Try a bulking diet with a surplus of 500 or maybe more if you're a hard gainer., for that amount of time. If you have never done that before, I'll bet a dime you'll get good gains.

Even if you decide to cycle whatsoever, still be extra careful about your diet. Gains are made in the kitchen, on or off steroids .

[ojm3]

Eat!!

[kelkel]

I Also, I see no point in building up massive arms if my calfs don't match. I won't let my arms grow until my calfs grow, and as noted in my OP, that isn't happening. The most important thing to me is a balanced physique.

Wait. I understand the desire for a balanced physique but you're going to let your calves determine your arm growth? Makes no sense to me without a competition imminent. What about chest, back, quads, etc? Are you holding back on these as well due to stubborn calves? I think you're over analyzing things. Eat, work out, blast your calves and prioritize them as most surely don't. If guys put the work into calves that they did chest and arms most would have good calves.

[Mykl]

I've tried higher calories before, I just gained fat. With what I'm doing now the weights I use go up faster than before, but the tape measure stays the same.

Wait. I understand the desire for a balanced physique but you're going to let your calves determine your arm growth? Makes no sense to me without a competition imminent.

Yes I am! Do a search for 'buff guys with skinny legs' and you'll see loads of pictures of how I don't want to look. I don't understand why it doesn't make sense to you.
I started training to look better, bulking up arms until they're noticeably bigger than calves doesn't look good. I'm holding back on everything above the waist due to stubborn calves. I have very wide lats, they don't need to grow EVER. It's my one genetic gift. I'm doing plenty of squats and stiff leg dead lifts as nearly everyone knows that compound exercises are the best. Although my calves measure bigger than my arms they don't really look like it, perhaps because they have a circular cross section and the arms are more oval. I'd need several more inches on my calves to actually LOOK balanced.

That said, I shall take the advice and try eating more and building my arms a little and see what happens.

I have to say that I'm amazed people on a steroid forum are trying to dissuade me from using them. It reassures me that I can trust the advice.

[NACH3]

B/c there's so much more to it than just doing them! Educate yourself b4 putting any exogenous test into your body... And domething is off, whether its your diet(most likely) or a thyroid problem... Have you gotten any BW done to see where all your levels are recently?

And BTW kelkel one of The most respected & most knowledgeable member on this forum(w/Vets & Monitors & Austinite) I would listen to snd do whstever these guys suggest! Just my .02...

[kelkel]

I've tried higher calories before, I just gained fat. With what I'm doing now the weights I use go up faster than before, but the tape measure stays the same.



Yes I am! Do a search for 'buff guys with skinny legs' and you'll see loads of pictures of how I don't want to look. I don't understand why it doesn't make sense to you.
I started training to look better, bulking up arms until they're noticeably bigger than calves doesn't look good. I'm holding back on everything above the waist due to stubborn calves. I have very wide lats, they don't need to grow EVER. It's my one genetic gift. I'm doing plenty of squats and stiff leg dead lifts as nearly everyone knows that compound exercises are the best. Although my calves measure bigger than my arms they don't really look like it, perhaps because they have a circular cross section and the arms are more oval. I'd need several more inches on my calves to actually LOOK balanced.

That said, I shall take the advice and try eating more and building my arms a little and see what happens.

I have to say that I'm amazed people on a steroid forum are trying to dissuade me from using them. It reassures me that I can trust the advice.

No, I/we do understand the dilemma. Point is to not let one stubborn body part hold back others.
Stick around Mykl, lot's of good info to be had here. We all learn every day from each other.

[Oki-Des]

I know where this guy is coming from, as my facial muscles are not where I want them to be. For my next cycle I think I am just going to chew bubble gum ten hours a day to build up my face flexes like crazy; and stop working out my body altogether.
All kidding aside, I have a buddy who has a big upper body and tiny legs so I can relate. It did not help that his mom made fun of him when he was a kid for having tiny legs that led to his continued insecurity. Nevertheless, you simply have to put a little extra time into your legs and eat better and they will grow.
If you cant get them to grow on your own though, steroids wont help either. You will put on more weight but lose it all when you quit, so you have to find a way to do it on your own; then steroids can help push it further.

[zempey]

It isn't just about piling in calories either, you have to find the right dietary balance for lean mass growth, especially being a hard gainer. Don't hold back on any body part while waiting for a stubborn one to catch up. If you added 3 inches to your calves and stayed the same everywhere else, you would look unproportioned. It takes time to grow noticeably, try upping your calories a few hundred for a couple weeks, if you are not gaining fat, up them a couple hundred more for a couple weeks. Give yourself a few months and remeasure to see if anything changes. Just for reference, I put on 15lbs in my first 7 weeks on cycle and have only put a half inch on my arms, but they look like I put on much more.

Maybe back off the cardio training and hit the weights some more, try a new split, shake things up, shock your body into a growth spurt.

[Silverback64]

I read your answer to one of the questions about your diet 2500 ishonesltyareally smallamiunt even on a non training day especially if you're truly a hard gainer. My personal best advice I can say is before you try a cycle adjust your diet for 6months. Eat eat eat and eat more. You need a surplus to gain regardless. Now I don't know your TEE daily because I don't know your lifestyle buti can assume 2500 is too low. If you have trouble eating at least 3000-3500 calories a day then try marijuana to help appetite. Give it a shot bud. Just keep eating. When you think you've eaten enough. Eat more

[NACH3]

No, I/we do understand the dilemma. Point is to not let one stubborn body part hold back others.
Stick around Mykl, lot's of good info to be had here. We all learn every day from each other.

IMO - that's what separates this forum from the rest(members want to help)... And help educate each other about the safety aspects of AAS use! Your in the right place Mikl... One can never stop learning! Diet and training account for 95% of all gains...

[kelkel]

It did not help that his mom made fun of him when he was a kid for having tiny legs that led to his continued insecurity. .

That's mean and hysterical all at once.

[Haydenz]

i don't see a pun in that. I eat about 2,500 if i don't train at all, which really only happens if i go away. Yes, i control my calories on holiday. Add a few hundred extra on weight days, take a few hundred off on cardio days.



I don't appreciate being called a liar, but i also appreciate that you don't know me. There is such a thing as a hard gainer. You should see my wrists and ankles, they're like toothpicks. If you believe maximum girth can be calculated from wrist and ankle diameter then i've already exceeded my potential. Also, i see no point in building up massive arms if my calfs don't match. I won't let my arms grow until my calfs grow, and as noted in my op, that isn't happening. The most important thing to me is a balanced physique.

I've kept my weight constant for the last five or six years but gained strength and the callipers are showing a reduction in fat levels over this period. I've just looked at my records and those guide pics of fat levels and i'm actually closer to 12% than 15% but i can't be accurate. Callipers show my leanest site is 3mm and my fattest is 19mm. My abs have 16mm.

Yes, i'm on the light side for someone that's been at it for 23 years. that's why i want juice.



ah, i think i see. So i can ask about sources of pro hormones because they're legal? If so, would i be allowed to ask about sources of pro hormones in the uk? (note: I'm not asking for sources, i'm just asking if i can ask! I don't want to get banned)

you

are

too

small

for

aas....


You have kept your weight constant, good for you, but WHY? if you want to get big should you of tried to get bigger? You're problem is proper nutrition and its very obvious. Hard gainer, what a joke.

[< <Samson> >]

It's a lifestyle change

Not just juice or eat more

And if you are the stats that you are - you haven't "trained" for over two decades - it's not physically possible

You would gain at least 1-2 pounds of LBM a year

[Mykl]

And if you are the stats that you are - you haven't "trained" for over two decades - it's not physically possible. You would gain at least 1-2 pounds of LBM a year

Let's do some maths. My dad weighs approximately 9.5 stones and has been about the same for decades. I have his bone structure and height. Let's assume that I'd be built like him if, like him, I didn't exercise but had a reasonably active lifestyle.
133lbs + 1 or 2 lbs gain per year = between 156lbs and 179lbs. I didn't have a clue about nutrition for the first few years but I was still training hard.

For those that are contributing more than accusations of falsehood, I thank you and greatly appreciate your input.
As of today (3rd) I'll be eating approx. 3,700 cals on weights days, divided between protein/carb meals and protein/fat meals.

[kelkel]

Mykl hit the nutrition forum and hook up with one of the vets there as well for some guidance. Then, visit Marcus's Diary in the Lounge. Start from the beginning and read your way through it. It'll take a week or so! Great thread regarding HIT training, motivation and camaraderie. You can learn a lot there.

Focus on the positive stuff.

[zempey]

Don't over think the diet part, just eat balanced meals, don't complicate it too much.

[Bonaparte]

Could you please post a photo of yourself? (no face, obviously)
I'm imagining that you look like a cyclist, but I could be wrong...

Either way, I don't see the point in using AAS if it's just to gain a bit of leg mass. But to each their own.

PS: bear in mind that while guys with disproportionately large upper bodies may look funny, ones with big legs (that aren't well defined) and weak upper bodies tend to look like hobbits (Samwise would be the prototype, here).

[< <Samson> >]

(Samwise would be the prototype, here).

From what I gather - that is some sort of wise ass comment towards me


But, that shit is so far above & beyond me - that I have no clue wtf it means

I'll just say yes - that sound fair?

Let psycho babble continue

[Motardpdx]

Hi, you sound very motivated and your on the right forum to take your BB to the next level. I encourage you to dial in your nutrition and TDEE...http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutri...penditure.html Plus, learn to eat and get your weight into 185-200 lbs range and it will blowout those calves before you supplement any AAS.
http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutri...ent-chart.html Your diet is 80% of your body composition and it will be the thing that maintains your gains during and after your PCT. Cheers!

[EquilibriumZ]

lol some of these guys are mean. But ya you making the right choice of not doing a cycle and working on new diet + training. Trust me, you ll make shitload gains once you take your training to another level (read marcus's diary) so you ll know what i m talking about.

[lovbyts]

Don't over think the diet part, just eat balanced meals, don't complicate it too much.

That's one of the biggest mistakes people make, they make it to complicated and give up. Dont try to make big changes. Start out making better choices. Work your way into it slowly and soon enough it will just be normal daily routine to eat more healthy and eventually you will know what to eat and when to eat it and your macros.

Remember, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

[< <Samson> >]

My diet took me 3 years to get to the point of where I can eat semi normal & hold a low Bf% - yet still grow

It's hard, I counted cals for almost 2 years. Now I just run it in my head all day. It's def something that takes time to get accustomed to.

[HawaiiLifr]

From what I gather - that is some sort of wise ass comment towards me


But, that shit is so far above & beyond me - that I have no clue wtf it means

I'll just say yes - that sound fair?

Let psycho babble continue

You're right about one thing. Right over your head! lol.. That's a hobbit bro.

[HawaiiLifr]

OK, I'll be the first to venture into 'irresponsible' territory. OP. A high dose, (min. 600MG week) 4-5 month cycle of Primobolan would change your life.

[Euroholic]

OK, I'll be the first to venture into 'irresponsible' territory. OP. A high dose, (min. 600MG week) 4-5 month cycle of Primobolan would change your life.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mykl]

Mykl hit the nutrition forum and hook up with one of the vets there as well for some guidance. Then, visit Marcus's Diary in the Lounge.

I shall do so. I've already looked at Berardi's Massive Eating article and am changing my eating accordingly.

Don't over think the diet part, just eat balanced meals, don't complicate it too much

I've been eating 6-8 balanced meals every day for years. The massive eating article tells me:
(1) I'm not eating enough, I wish some of you guys had pointed that out ;-)
(2) I'm eating the right foods in the wrong combination.

Could you please post a photo of yourself? (no face, obviously)
I'm imagining that you look like a cyclist, but I could be wrong...

You're not far off. Is that avatar good enough or do you people want more?

That's one of the biggest mistakes people make, they make it to complicated and give up. Dont try to make big changes. Start out making better choices. Work your way into it slowly and soon enough it will just be normal daily routine to eat more healthy and eventually you will know what to eat and when to eat it and your macros.
Remember, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

I've been running this marathon for two decades, just slower than you guys.
Eating every two hours can be a PITA and people around me find it aggravating but I've done it for years and I know it helps. Now that I've done some sums to figure out how much of each food I should eat I've done the hardest part. Actually, I think the hard part will be cramming all that food down the hole... Anyway, I've been weighing food and eating every two hours for years so it's natural now.

OK, I'll be the first to venture into 'irresponsible' territory. OP. A high dose, (min. 600MG week) 4-5 month cycle of Primobolan would change your life.

Will it change my life in a good way or bad way? Thanks, but I think I'll try the diet change first before playing with hormones.

[Chicagotarsier]

My 2 cents bro

You are getting feedback from BBs

You are not a BB.

This was the first hurdle I had to get over on the board here. If you can jog a mile plus and/or swim a few KM...many of the theories for gaining muscle mass do not apply to you.

The standard way it is looked at is ..why would someone who is not a BB be on a BB board getitng advice from BB.

Not being mean toward anyone just trying to clarify. You can compete at smaller events and not be a "real" BB. Good luck on your adventure into this world.

[Baxter35]

My 2 cents bro

You are getting feedback from BBs

You are not a BB.

This was the first hurdle I had to get over on the board here. If you can jog a mile plus and/or swim a few KM...many of the theories for gaining muscle mass do not apply to you.

The standard way it is looked at is ..why would someone who is not a BB be on a BB board getitng advice from BB.

Not being mean toward anyone just trying to clarify. You can compete at smaller events and not be a "real" BB. Good luck on your adventure into this world.

I get where you're coming from I think, except the line about being able to jog a mile or more. Can you expand on that? I don't see how having the cardiovascular stamina to jog or swim would effect the theory/process for gaining muscle if that person decided that's what they want to do.

[HawaiiLifr]

Will it change my life in a good way or bad way? Thanks, but I think I'll try the diet change first before playing with hormones.

Of course in a good way. It's insulting for you to infer, jokingly or not, that I would give advice designed to harm you. I actually read your first post, and am the first to answer your first numbered questions. You obviously have done ZERO research on AAS,- which compounds are available and what are their strengths. A person of minimal adequate intelligence could easily have researched that compound- Primobolan - and discovered why it was developed in the first place, and who it was developed for. And then that person would be equipped to ask themselves if they were a candidate or not.

You've been spoon-fed pure gold on this thread.