50mg Anavar

[NACH3]

Some suppression not shutdown tho probably would become significant shutdown longer duration and higher dose. Still doesn't address the why you would be more likely to need trt than if you had ran test with it comment (which would cause much greater suppression)

I'm not following on the last post, DS?! Yes you'll have more suppression but, shut down is shut down regardless(however for longer durations yes desensitization of the testes will be more prominent, & not to mention your HPTA is obviously sending that message to halt production,(but that's why we use hCG on cycle, I won't preach as you know)

I know you know this stuff but just curious as to why you wouldn't add test?

[-Ender-]

Been here long enough to have seen the old vets who started these rumors to admit that they were basically way over exaggerating to keep foolish noobs from running all oral cycles but that people who know what they're doing can benefit. Only oral I would recommend solo is tbol. Maybe dbol pulsed pre wo only

Good, so we are getting on the same page.
With that said: I am certain that it would appear to the OP that you are supporting his efforts. You also appear to understand shutdown/suppression. Would you care to address the issue of his age? The list of unknowns is long. However, it is well documented that most males continue to grow until the age of 25. The OP is attempting to upset his HPTA likely before his growth plates have fused.

Not to mention the shit he is claiming to be Anavar could be rat poison for all he knows.

There are a tremendous amount of young people that will search this forum and dig up this thread. They at the very least need to be well aware of the dangers.

[EquilibriumZ]

Some suppression not shutdown tho probably would become significant shutdown longer duration and higher dose. Still doesn't address the why you would be more likely to need trt than if you had ran test with it comment (which would cause much greater suppression)

I didnt say run test with anavar so that there's less chance you ll end up on trt compared to anavar only.

I am saying that shutdown/suppression from anavar only cycle can easily cause trt in future regardless if you take test or not. All it takes is for your body not to recover from that supression/shutdown, and you are stuck with that low test hence trt.

[shields21]

well **** me, what a waste of money

[EquilibriumZ]

well **** me, what a waste of money

Ya it sucks.. when i was 19 i bought 2 bottles of test from a "friend" for more than 200$ not only i got ripped off, i almost fked myself for life

He did many cycles, my age. Now he looks way worse than me.

[shields21]

well hopefully i havent done any serious damage considering i had taken these like a year ago, same pills, didnt do anything

[NACH3]

well hopefully i havent done any serious damage considering i had taken these like a year ago, same pills, didnt do anything

Get some BW done to see where your levels are... How have you felt since doing that var only cycle? This can be done privately... Not thru your PCP...

[shields21]

i havent felt any different, i almost wanna get the pills tested to see what they are..

[NACH3]

i havent felt any different, i almost wanna get the pills tested to see what they are..

Don't run it w/out test this time... And yes Labmax it... It's not Var...

[Dog-Slime]

I'm not following on the last post, DS?! Yes you'll have more suppression but, shut down is shut down regardless(however for longer durations yes desensitization of the testes will be more prominent, & not to mention your HPTA is obviously sending that message to halt production,(but that's why we use hCG on cycle, I won't preach as you know)

I know you know this stuff but just curious as to why you wouldn't add test?

Meant to say more serious suppression/possibly shutdown. Yes shutdown is shutdown but suppression is not the same which is a common misconception round here

[NACH3]

Meant to say more serious suppression/possibly shutdown. Yes shutdown is shutdown but suppression is not the same which is a common misconception round here

Ok... Thx for explaining... I was just curious... And yes, I agree with your statement... There is a difference but will lead to shut down....

[Sgt. Hartman]

That's a contradiction in terms. If he wants to take Anavar, because he wants to avoid side effects of steroids, why would he take testosterone with it? Letting aside the simple fact that he would suppress his natural testosterone even deeper. Really a clever advice.

If you'd stop being argumentative and think logically for 2 seconds you'd understand. Anavar will suppress (at least to some extent) endogenous testosterone production. Testosterone is what makes us males, plays a big role in getting an erection, libido, etc. So it's a good idea when taking any steroid , because they're all suppressive, to supplement with at least a trt dose of testosterone.

[treant]

Why oral only??? Test gives you the best bang for your buck by farrrr..... All you need is test for your first couple years of cycling.... It's cheap and way less likely to be faked then var... I don't understand why anyone would ever want to do a tab cycle??? Tabs generally suck and no one ever really keeps there gains for long after coming off unless they jump right back on another cycle.... Even if you keep some you will loose the majority of your gains for sure.... Hcg is good but not necessarily a must in my opinion.... I have a ton of estrogen issues with it and also seem to have a huge problem with knocking several girls up every time I take it so I don't use it anymore and would never again unless the only girl I was with was on a birth control implant or the shot.... Or better yet had the tubes tied.... I have too many kids thanks to that stuff

I was more curious than anything.. I intend to use Test E for first cycle.. but its just that theres not a lot of people posting about their actual experience on an oral only cycle.. and I thought it was all kinda the same thing once it got into the body.. I think it was like.. Anabolics 10th edition or something that was saying that it all turns into testosterone in your system anyway. So like Dbol and Test E are both just Test? I dont know.. that sounds kinda wrong now that I think of it..

[Steroidman99]

one guy saying do it another saying dont

Because everybody has different priorities. I don't want to sacrifice my hair and risk acne scars on my body because of few milimeters of a bloated "muscle". Letting aside something so ridiculous like the absence of a morning erection.

[Steroidman99]

Proof that anavar causes shutdown and not just suppression or that it causes extreme suppression I wanna see this study that you must be referencing since you state this as if it's fact

Oxandrolone in the treatment of HIV-associated weight loss in men: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. - PubMed - NCBI

The study is not freely available, but I can quote from it:

In men taking 20 mg Anavar daily for 12 weeks, testosterone decreased to 54% of the baseline level and liver enzymes increased by ca. 10%.
In men taking 40 mg Anavar daily for 12 weeks, testosterone decreased to 55% of the baseline level and liver enzymes increased by ca. 30-40%.
In men taking 80 mg Anavar daily for 12 weeks, testosterone decreased to 33% of the baseline level and liver enzymes increased by ca. 51% (AST)-94% (ALT).

Such a low decrease of testosterone is quite impressive. To be honest, the baseline levels were already quite low, around 300 ng/dl, but if you still have over 100 ng/dl after 12 weeks of high Anavar doses, that's not a bad start for PCT.

The increase of liver enzymes at high doses was marked, but most of the subjects would remain within the normal limits.

Naturally, these are averages and the range of values was wide. Perhaps, I was just one of those unlucky men, who reacted to Anavar by too deep testosterone suppression, because my values at the end of the cycle ranged only between 10-50 ng/dl. On the other hand, my liver was "Anavar-resistant", because I have never had liver enzymes over the uppermost limit, even at 70-80 mg/day for 6 weeks.

[Steroidman99]

Assuming OP is taking real anavar which is REALLY hard to find and i doubt he is even taking the real stuff
282ng is less than the range, it's old man's level. I consider that shutdown, significant on a 21 year old. I d like to see you go ahead take 50mg anavar without hcg and show me how much well your test level is doing

Preaching parrot, here is the study. This is 15mg not even 50mg:
"after only 5 days of Anavar administration (at only 15mg/day), the Testosterone levels ofthese 6 subjects dropped DRASTICALLY by day 5 from 449ng/dl to 282ng/dl – a 37% reduction of Testosterone in just 5 days(1)"

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/....84.8.5923#_i6

In six healthy men... The study that I posted above was made with 200 men. Don't want me to look for some study dealing with the effect of testosterone esters on HPTA. (LOL)

[Steroidman99]

I'm new to steroids,i did only a half cycle of anavar only last year.First two weeks,libido was fine(usually is very high),3rd week started to decline.By 4th week it went to zero,and then i stopped.I took Nolva as pct for 4 weeks and i felt terrible.After the pct,it took couple of month to comeback where i was before starting that cycle.And not to mention cholesterol that went up to the roof.

Yes. It can happen. I also didn't feel well after several weeks on Anavar . But I had no other option. I had to sort my personal priorities. The androgenic safety of Anavar is the primary purpose of its use. If I wanted to bulk, I could jump directly on test+Trenbolone . And I would end up scalped, with huge red cysts on my face and back (like after a cycle with Winstrol ) and subsequent ugly scars.

[Steroidman99]

Meant to say more serious suppression/possibly shutdown. Yes shutdown is shutdown but suppression is not the same which is a common misconception round here

They are not able to recognize a difference between this.

[NACH3]

Oxandrolone in the treatment of HIV-associated weight loss in men: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. - PubMed - NCBI

The study is not freely available, but I can quote from it:

In men taking 20 mg Anavar daily for 12 weeks, testosterone decreased to 54% of the baseline level and liver enzymes increased by ca. 10%.
In men taking 40 mg Anavar daily for 12 weeks, testosterone decreased to 55% of the baseline level and liver enzymes increased by ca. 30-40%.
In men taking 80 mg Anavar daily for 12 weeks, testosterone decreased to 33% of the baseline level and liver enzymes increased by ca. 51% (AST)-94% (ALT).

Such a low decrease of testosterone is quite impressive. To be honest, the baseline levels were already quite low, around 300 ng/dl, but if you still have over 100 ng/dl after 12 weeks of high Anavar doses, that's not a bad start for PCT.

The increase of liver enzymes at high doses was marked, but most of the subjects would remain within the normal limits.

Naturally, these are averages and the range of values was wide. Perhaps, I was just one of those unlucky men, who reacted to Anavar by too deep testosterone suppression, because my values at the end of the cycle ranged only between 10-50 ng/dl. On the other hand, my liver was "Anavar-resistant", because I have never had liver enzymes over the uppermost limit, even at 70-80 mg/day for 6 weeks.

This is a study on HIV patients... I don't see why you would quote something from HIV patients... Most of us are not in this scenario so it's not the same as a healthy individual!!!

[NACH3]

They are not able to recognize a difference between this.

^^^ this is also another reason that test should be run at minimum of a TRT dose so that your non existent(testosterone is what makes us MEN) libido, ED problems, and other internal damages will be at a minimum compared to not running test....

It's simple... Always run test w/any compound(as any steroid ) will lead to some sort of suppression or shutdown!

This has all been tried and proven why are you arguing about this concept?!

[Steroidman99]

It's simple... Always run test w/any compound(as any steroid) will lead to some sort of suppression or shutdown!

And the added testosterone will suppress your testosterone production even deeper... For Goodness sake, who could invent something like this...!

[NACH3]

And the added testosterone will suppress your testosterone production even deeper... For Goodness sake, who could invent something like this...!

No shit!!! That's what AIs/hCG /and correct PCT is for!!! As long as one takes these preventable protocols(sides are at a minimum)! And any other ancilleries(SERMs/DAs/SARMs etc) will lesson the risks(depending on compound used)...

Listen to yourself!! Go back to the other anavar thread and respond to what Kel said... If your so damn smart!

All your doing is proving me right w/your 2cm increase in arm size w/your oral only cycles!

Please continue since you know everything!! Your gains on these oral cycles are limitless... Like I've said I like doing things the right way(proven and tried)! (I'm done w/you)...

[NACH3]

Stop arguing proven methods! SCIENCE has advanced!!!

Your arguing to hear your own voice it seems!