2nd Cycle Advice (Aus)

[diragz]

Hey Guys, got some great info from this site with every thread i read. keen for some advice

Previous cycle was march last year:
500mg Sust /pw-10weeks bulk
Started at 100mg for TrenA/TestP EOD but dropped dose down to
50mg trenA 50mg Test P EOD due to sides for 4weeks cutting\
PCT was clomid/nolva,
GEAR WAS VERY UNDERDOSED. NO ACTUAL TYPICAL TREN SIDES AT ALL.

Took a 4 month break and got back into it start of the year dropping BF down to 9% from about 20% naturally dialling in my diet and training fixing little injuries and incorrect movement patterns.

Current stats:
5.10"
78kg (9%) really small frame hence the weight



Proposed cycle:

1-12 Test E 250mg x 2 a week
8-12 Anavar 50mg ED
2-12 Adex - 0.5 EOD

PCT:
15- 19 Clomid 100/50/50/50
15-19 Nolva 80/80/ 40/40
15- 19Clen (maybe)

Diet:
Calorie surplus of 500,

[Back In Black]

What was so bad with 500mg test per week only that you don't want to run it again instead up upping that dose by over 20% and adding in 2 other compounds?

Aromasin should be run ED and HCG should be run throughout. Nolva is on the heavy side.

What PCT did you run first time around?

How old are you?

[diragz]

I will start at 500mg but depending on the amount in the vial i will plan it so i have none left at the end of the cycle so the dosage might increase to 650mg~

I read the HCG sticky that the last 4 weeks of cycle is when it should be used as to not over saturate lyedig receptors or something. THere is a lot of debate about it.
reference:
(cant post reference but its in the HCG FAQ in the newbies starter pack stickie)

If no sides are experienced with NPP I will add in anavar as a finisher. I am aware that more=/= better but i see no reason not to add it for a little extra gains at the end.
As stated pct first time was nolva and clomid,
100/50/50/50
40/40/20/20

I am 23

[Back In Black]

No need to change your test dosage, pick a dose and stick to it.

You made another post in another thread about the fact you should only add other compounds to progress so I'm wondering why, especially after not training for 4 months, 500-600mg test only wont help you progress? Especially at 172lbs.

That HCG thread you read is outdated, I'll give you a link for something more up to date

HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

[diragz]

No need to change your test dosage, pick a dose and stick to it.

You made another post in another thread about the fact you should only add other compounds to progress so I'm wondering why, especially after not training for 4 months, 500-600mg test only wont help you progress? Especially at 172lbs.

That HCG thread you read is outdated, I'll give you a link for something more up to date


Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Thanks for the link.

I took a 4 month break mate, that wasnt this year.
Been training again since Jan on a deficit so i didnt expect to gain any muscle, however i did gain some muscle back from memory. I dont consider anavar a 'heavy hitter' being such a mild steroid so im not sure why adding it at the end is a problem.

ill update PCT. any reason to those dosages for clomid and nolva?

and ill state again. My frame is small for my height so weight is irrelevant.

[Back In Black]

Thanks for the link.

I took a 4 month break mate, that wasnt this year.
Been training again since Jan on a deficit so i didnt expect to gain any muscle, however i did gain some muscle back from memory. I dont consider anavar a 'heavy hitter' being such a mild steroid so im not sure why adding it at the end is a problem.

ill update PCT. any reason to those dosages for clomid and nolva?

and ill state again. My frame is small for my height so weight is irrelevant.

Ok mate, good luck.

[diragz]

Ok mate, good luck.

thanks mate, other than any little nit picks is there anything wrong with the future cycle?

And any reason for those PCT dosages? Thanks

[Buster Brown]

thanks mate, other than any little nit picks is there anything wrong with the future cycle? And any reason for those PCT dosages? Thanks

Those are kind of the standard pct dosages although there are some variations. The idea is to front load the SERM for two weeks to get your bloods up as quickly as possible.

[Back In Black]

thanks mate, other than any little nit picks is there anything wrong with the future cycle?

And any reason for those PCT dosages? Thanks

You have my advice but I suspect you already chose to ignore most of it so as I said, good luck.

[Back In Black]

thanks mate, other than any little nit picks is there anything wrong with the future cycle?

And any reason for those PCT dosages? Thanks

You have my advice but I suspect you already chose to ignore most of it so as I said, good luck.

[diragz]

I was also under that impression however back in black changed it slightly.

[diragz]

You have my advice but I suspect you already chose to ignore most of it so as I said, good luck.

Where did i choose to ignore your advice? I will keep test at 500 throughout and do HCG throughout.

[Back In Black]

Where did i choose to ignore your advice? I will keep test at 500 throughout and do HCG throughout.

Running test only?

[diragz]

Running test only?

I was deep in thought about that advice and i like it and it makes sense. so ill drop the npp and anavar

My mentality is that ill lose all the gains when i come off even test. Is this incorrect?

I just feel that 500mg of test alone isnt enough considering i have run it in the past. Anything i can add to make it a little different?

[Back In Black]

I was deep in thought about that advice and i like it and it makes sense. so ill drop the npp and anavar

My mentality is that ill lose all the gains when i come off even test. Is this incorrect?

I just feel that 500mg of test alone isnt enough considering i have run it in the past. Anything i can add to make it a little different?

If you think you are going to lose your gains you probably will. It would also make cycling pointless. You won't keep them all but as long as you can focus your training and diet off cycle at least as well as you are like
Y to on it, then there's no reason why you won't maintain some at least.

[diragz]

Good point, a lot of varied opinions on best training method when coming off.

Some say heavy and short

others say superset ect which is odd.

[Back In Black]

Short and intense, minimal cardio. Calories go up during PCT.

[diragz]

calories mainly from fats or carbs or protien?

[Back In Black]

calories mainly from fats or carbs or protien?

Depends where you at with your on cycle macro's but generally carbs.

[diragz]

Too easy thanks

[diragz]

hey guys, just an update:

within the first 3-4 weeks weight went up 14lb and was only eating 200+ cal. Then it platued so ive slowly increased cals from 2600 all the way to 3000 and weight is barely moving!
Diet is clean, had one pizza so far and blew up like a balloon, never again!

Its currently week 6 and im starting to feel lethargic, low libido, moody as ****. Leads me to believe my E could be too high. Ive had bloods done and see the results later today, cant remember if the Dr. added eastradial to the list or not. I had aromasin on hand incase of gyno but my nipples dont really puff and water rentention is that bad (Probably due to cleaner diet) so i wasnt taking it.


Thoughts? CHeers

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Dude,

The weight you gained is mostly water weight.
As Back in Black said earlier...
Take your aromasin ED.
AIs are not to be kept on hand but instead used throughout the entire cycle.
I am sure you will ignore my advice just as you have ignored all previous advice given.

[diragz]

Will do.
Thanks

[diragz]

Bloods came back.

Test results >52 (>1500ng/dl)
Gonna have to get it done privatly as this lab doesnt state results greater than 1500 which is silly. THey wouldnt give me free test because my total was >1500 and apparantly its against law and ethics practice to request eastradil to be measured. Wish he said all this before i got it all done.

Good news is lipids, rbc ect are all within normal range.

Bad new is liver is pretty toxic he says which is odd considering im not using any orals at all. (stated milk thistle asap and will consider liv 52)

(Ps: i did take most of their advice, nothing but test E and hcg which he suggested, only reason i didnt start aroamsin from the start is due to reading on these forums moderate E can help gains)

[thephoenix25]

only reason i didnt start aroamsin from the start is due to reading on these forums moderate E can help gains

This is only true if E is still in the healthy range. Without an AI, I'd suspect your E is far above healthy range.

[diragz]

im aware of this now haha..
after a bit of research ill be trying to get my hands on TUDCA or UDCA with my milk thistle.

Any suggestions on the best place to purchase these? Thanks

[aussie made]

Just run milk thistle or better nac 1200mg a day.buy off eBay

[diragz]

been looking into "cycle guard" by wicked.

Has TUDCA/NAC in it as well.

[Back In Black]

Just listen to the advice and take it. Why would you ignore taking advice here when that is what you came fore.

Run your damned AI and take it ED
Get some NAC and run it at 1200mg per day minimum

[Juced_porkchop]

I would up the dose of the AI and make ed IMO

[diragz]

The high levels of liver enzyme ALT and AST were about double normal which was most likely due to weight training and supplemenation of preworkouts, fishoil ect

After a bit of reading i think its fair to say my lethargic flu like feelings were from over training. As pre cycle i was training 4-5 times a week moderate intensity where as now im training balls to the wall where my hands shake like crazy after each session. Clearly not eating enough as weight gain has been minimal after the first jump. I increased cals up 700 from maintaince, i guess i need more at the intensity i train.

Decided to take 5 days off all supps and training and get retested. Feel better alreayd after a few days.

reason for not doing AI striaght away is ive done 500mg sust for 12 weeks with no E issues in the past with only slightly puffy nipples and being the price for pharma AI i was thinking with my wallet.

[diragz]

Took 7 days off and got bloods redone.

Liver enzymes were back to normal. Invested in pharma adex at 0.5 EOD for the first week and might lower it to 0.25mg EOD as the aromasin apparantly was a 'bad batch'

Feel much better, getting up early, full of energy.

[diragz]

Just an update.

Weight: 88kg
Since starting my Adex the water weight reduce quite a bit and had no bloat, moods/skin stabilised too.

I was eating at 2000~ calories on my cut... I am now eating at 3500~ on training days just to gain a little weight! I slowly tapered this up from 2500 when i first started the cycle. Seems like a big jump, or is this normal? Weight gain is pretty slow, gaining 1kg a week max.

Reduced training days from 6 a week to 4-5 a week as i felt i was constantly over reaching. Typical lethargy, struggle to sleep, elevated heart rate.