Inevitable

**Avi3510** · 08-15-2015, 11:14 PM

So let's say you're a serious AAS user, you work your way up to using multiple compound cycles, including 19 nor gear, and let's say you always use the time on+pct = time off; is it inevitable that one day you will be on trt? Does it happen to a majority of people? I'm just curious. I am mid cycle of my first cycle, and I plan on being in for the long haul, and I just want to know what to look forward to.

**KA24** · 08-15-2015, 11:24 PM

It's almost inevitable that everyone should be on TRT at some point. Cycling, even if doing everything safely and ideally, just shortens that time.

This is why cycling shouldn't begin until you already have side effects of non-optimal T levels, one of those includes hitting a peak of natural gains.

**musclestack** · 08-16-2015, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by KA24

It's almost inevitable that everyone should be on TRT at some point. Cycling, even if doing everything safely and ideally, just shortens that time. This is why cycling shouldn't begin until you already have side effects of non-optimal T levels, one of those includes hitting a peak of natural gains.

Hitting a peak of natural gains is not, for the most part, indicative of low T levels. It has much more to do with genetics (and I'm not talking about being genetically predisposed to naturally low Test levels).

**Avi3510** · 08-16-2015, 09:00 AM

I was hoping to get some responses from more of the vets. So I'll post something to get this to pop back up to the top of the feed. Just want some more feedback.

**Avi3510** · 08-16-2015, 06:37 PM

So does no one want to answer this?

**Bio-Active** · 08-16-2015, 06:44 PM

Your going to get a mixed bag of opinions. Some recover just fine after running years of cycles and some run one cycle and end up on trt. Your question cannot really be answered. You have to understand the risks before starting

**qscgugcsq** · 08-16-2015, 07:03 PM

Can you cycle for decades and not have low test symptoms that is not age related.

Yes but it is extremely unlikely...

IMO cycling is pointless for a serious athlete

If you decide using steroid it is a life.long commitement therefore being ON year round makes more sense.and is more efficient. And arguably safer.
Thats just my opinion.

**KA24** · 08-16-2015, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by musclestack

Hitting a peak of natural gains is not, for the most part, indicative of low T levels. It has much more to do with genetics (and I'm not talking about being genetically predisposed to naturally low Test levels).

That wasn't my point. To correlate the two. I was more to hold off cycling until you need to. And yes, it's almost a fact everyone will have "low T" at some point if you define low T as not optimal and getting optimal results.

**musclestack** · 08-17-2015, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by KA24

That wasn't my point. To correlate the two. I was more to hold off cycling until you need to. And yes, it's almost a fact everyone will have "low T" at some point if you define low T as not optimal and getting optimal results.

Originally Posted by KA24

It's almost inevitable that everyone should be on TRT at some point. Agreed, as all men will suffer low T at SOME point in their lives. Cycling, even if doing everything safely and ideally, just shortens that time. Agreed, for the most part.

This is why cycling shouldn't begin until you already have side effects of non-optimal T levels, one of those includes hitting a peak of natural gains.

With this argument, you're suggesting that no one should cycle until they have low T. Most males' T levels don't start to decline until they're in their mid-30s (average), so no one should cycle until they're 35?? Again, peaking on your natural gains is usually reached much sooner than declining test levels. A 25 year old can peak and not be able to gain a substantial amount more whilst having completely normal T levels for a 25 year old.

**NACH3** · 08-17-2015, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bio-Active

Your going to get a mixed bag of opinions. Some recover just fine after running years of cycles and some run one cycle and end up on trt. Your question cannot really be answered. You have to understand the risks before starting

This ^^^ - some recover just fine - I had a traumatic event that happened to speed up the process of low t - I'm 31(and was 23 when this happened) I didn't cycle till I was 28... Recovered fine from my first then my second was horrible... Got tested low T - even though I did everything I could've preventatively and ran a cycle like it ought to be - it took me near 6months to get back to my low t numbers - so I agree w/Bio one can do everything right and still end up on HRT! Just my experience...

**bobtail** · 08-17-2015, 11:22 AM

You should define for yourself what you mean by "the long haul". Are you planning on running cycles until you die? For the next 40 years or how ever long you live? Until you find a mate? Until you have kids (this is a whole other issue)? Until you win the Olympia?
Eventually, you are going to quit. Your body will eventually rebel. I have a friend (you guys would know who if I mentioned his name) that can't get his blood work right for anything. Had to give up the cycles and run TRT and even that is causing him problems.
But to answer your question, personally, I do not know anyone who has cycled for any length of time who is not on TRT at a much younger age than they would normally. I also know a number of old men who have perfect T levels in their 50s and 60s who have been clean all that time. This is just my personal observation and not scientific in any way.

**Avi3510** · 08-17-2015, 01:15 PM

Thanks guys.

**Avi3510** · 08-17-2015, 01:15 PM

I'm going to do everything safe and see what happens.

**Avi3510** · 08-17-2015, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by bobtail

You should define for yourself what you mean by "the long haul". Are you planning on running cycles until you die? For the next 40 years or how ever long you live? Until you find a mate? Until you have kids (this is a whole other issue)? Until you win the Olympia?
Eventually, you are going to quit. Your body will eventually rebel. I have a friend (you guys would know who if I mentioned his name) that can't get his blood work right for anything. Had to give up the cycles and run TRT and even that is causing him problems.
But to answer your question, personally, I do not know anyone who has cycled for any length of time who is not on TRT at a much younger age than they would normally. I also know a number of old men who have perfect T levels in their 50s and 60s who have been clean all that time. This is just my personal observation and not scientific in any way.

Thanks man. I was hoping to get honest answers and it looks like I did. I'm 31, running my first cycle, and I plan on lifting for as long as I possibly can. I got two kids and am not having anymore (had a vasectomy last year ), I'm married, got a solid job and a house, and I plan to maybe compete in a few local competitions in the near future but ultimately just love to lift and have a desire to be huge. I don't know if that desire will ever go away. So I get in my dungeon, I pound away at the weights, and I'm content. I've crept over to the darkside and I enjoy the results. Looks like this is it.

**Avi3510** · 08-17-2015, 09:49 PM

And by this is it, I don't mean blast and cruise. I'm going to follow the wise advice of austinite and all others who lay out the safe way of doing things and follow it till my natty crashes and I need a dr.s assistance. I guess I'm just understanding this is a lifelong commitment I'm deciding to make, this lifestyle that is.