Help with cycle - older athlete...

**NACH3** · 11-25-2015, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by nycdave

Just finishing up a 12 wk Deca /Test Cyp cycle that you all helped with a few months back. Some quick results:

- Weight: from 174 to 186. Used Letro to fight gyno for the first four weeks of this cycle while I waited for Nolvadex . Made almost no progress in terms of strength and weight gain for the first 5 weeks.
- Taking Nolva ed @ 10 mg starting week 5 prevented gyno from growing as suggested here.
- It seems that gains started once Letro discontinued.
- BF at 10.5 vs 11.5 at start of cycle.
- some bloat from deca.

Overall very pleased with cycle results given bad start. Have attached some photos from this week. Thank you everyone for your help - you guys are incredibly knowledgeable.

Definitely gained Size Dave! Look great - now once you return back to TRT levels(which I'm sure your close) that water(a lil goes a long way) will drop and those bricks will be more pronounced! Great job!

In the future - I'd run your nolva at 10mgs(maybe 20 the first wk) throughout your cycles to keep your gyno at bay from flaring up.... Seems to work well for me after I had gotten a flare up... And from my experience running both ralox and nolva - I actually like the nolva better... Just me though - again great job!

**nycdave** · 11-25-2015, 04:13 PM

Thank you guys. Worked very hard in the gym. Really think the letro hosed me early. Wonder what the gains would have been had I been running nolvadex instead.

Definitely running nolvadex going forward for the whole cycle. Fired up for my next shot at this. Loved the deca like you boys said I would!

**NACH3** · 11-25-2015, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by nycdave

Thank you guys. Worked very hard in the gym. Really think the letro hosed me early. Wonder what the gains would have been had I been running nolvadex instead.

Definitely running nolvadex going forward for the whole cycle. Fired up for my next shot at this. Loved the deca like you boys said I would!

Yeah let do is harsh but Sind respond very well to it...

What AI you going to? I like Dex but if you can get dialed in with stane I've heard w/19nors it's sometimes a better option but again we're all different so whatever works best for you! Did you have to run a DA(prami/caber)?

**tectime** · 11-25-2015, 05:52 PM

Looking good Dave ! Looks like you got some great results from the deca buddy !

**nycdave** · 11-25-2015, 07:12 PM

I used prami for the first six weeks. It was certainly impacting my libido (positively) and sleep (negatively).

Decided to stop using and was pleased as my sleep improved. I didn't have an issue with "deca dick" thankfully.

Adex has not been effective for me so that's why I used the nolvadex based on suggestions here.

Thanks to all of you for encouraging me to stick with the cycle despite the early surprising gyno flare up.

**kelkel** · 11-25-2015, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by nycdave

Adex has not been effective for me so that's why I used the nolvadex based on suggestions here.

Explain how adex is not effective for you? The nolva can be used "in addition" to the adex. Always use some type of AI.

**Stove** · 11-25-2015, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by nycdave

Just finishing up a 12 wk Deca /Test Cyp cycle that you all helped with a few months back. Some quick results:

- Weight: from 174 to 186. Used Letro to fight gyno for the first four weeks of this cycle while I waited for Nolvadex . Made almost no progress in terms of strength and weight gain for the first 5 weeks.
- Taking Nolva ed @ 10 mg starting week 5 prevented gyno from growing as suggested here.
- It seems that gains started once Letro discontinued.
- BF at 10.5 vs 11.5 at start of cycle.
- some bloat from deca.

Overall very pleased with cycle results given bad start. Have attached some photos from this week. Thank you everyone for your help - you guys are incredibly knowledgeable.

Great Job, keep up the good work! Glad to see switching the TA for ND, you def made some gains!

**nycdave** · 11-26-2015, 10:01 AM

Kelkel I'm not sure why Adex didn't work for me. I tried it three yrs ago when I started TRT.

After a few months on TRT gyno flared up. My doc RX adex but it did nothing. He then increased the adex dose and reduced test dose - but still no impact.

I was worried that he would lower the test dose further so I took letro on my own. Did the regimen when you ladder up the daily dose. Lumps were gone in 2-3 weeks.

Since that episode I have not used adex. In future cycles I will run nolvadex from the start.

**NACH3** · 11-26-2015, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by nycdave

Kelkel I'm not sure why Adex didn't work for me. I tried it three yrs ago when I started TRT.

After a few months on TRT gyno flared up. My doc RX adex but it did nothing. He then increased the adex dose and reduced test dose - but still no impact.

I was worried that he would lower the test dose further so I took letro on my own. Did the regimen when you ladder up the daily dose. Lumps were gone in 2-3 weeks.

Since that episode I have not used adex. In future cycles I will run nolvadex from the start.

What Kel is saying, Dave... It's fine to run nolva ALONG SIDE OF AN AI... Nolva is a SERM not an AI - you'll still need to control your E2 which when running any 19nors you'll have progestin related sides if your E2 is not in range and is elevated as your Prolactin will follow elevated E2!!

Try dialing in with aromasin (25mgs/day on cycle it's asuicidal AI which once it binds to ER IT renders it useless) split it into 2 doses 12 hrs apart taken with a serving of fat(just with your am meal would be good or a spoon of PB) you can't rely on nolva for aromatization!

**kelkel** · 11-26-2015, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by nycdave

In future cycles I will run nolvadex from the start.

As stated, low dose nolva is fine on cycle but always run an AI as well. Just find one that works for you.

**nycdave** · 11-26-2015, 06:45 PM

Understood. Will find one that works for me and educate myself further.

**nycdave** · 12-03-2015, 08:25 PM

OK. Another issue. Finished 12 week deca /test cycle a little over a week ago.

Back to my TRT regular dose of 100 mg every 4-5 days.

Gyno has flared up again over last few days. Why?? I am still taking nolvadex at 10mg per day. Any thoughts? I have letro on hand if needed.

I now should be knighted - Sir Gyno. Ugh.

**NACH3** · 12-03-2015, 11:23 PM

Stay on the Nolva(low dose) - when you think it's gone it's not... It takes months to reverse if you caught it in time... This is something that's with you now unfortunately - surgery or try taking the nolva(or) Ralox(studies show Ralox to be superior at binding to the breast tissue)... It can take up to 6+ months to reverse of caught in time... GL NYD!