Next Cycle suggestions

[TheTaxMan]

Stats:
28 years
5ft8
206lbs (currently on cycle of 250mg test e, 200mg tren e) - finished in 2 weeks
Bodyfat i think is 18%, will be sub 15% before starting

Started training at 20 years, weight was 138lbs.

Cycle history:
1. 24years 500mg sustanon 12 weeks

2. 24years 500mg sustanon 14 weeks, 400mg deca 12 weeks

3. 25years 500mg test e 12 weeks

4. 28years *still on* 250mg test e 12 weeks, 200mg tren e 10 weeks
Ends in 2 weeks

I have gained 18lbs and dropped around 10% bodyfat this cycle (i foolishly cycled at 25% bodyfat and wasnt aware at the time of possible bad sides increased by high bodyfat, but i had started it and luckily ive been fine)

Next cycle i want to have a lean bulk, im not bothered about gaining crazy weight, but would rather gain quality weight.

I know im still on cycle, and wont be cycling until a few months, but I like to plan my next cycle and buy bits each month every pay day. Example i wil buy my AI & PCT one month, then some compounds the month after etc.

I know diet dictates the quality and amount of gains, but would like some cycle suggestions from you guys that will provide quality lean gains.

I really enjoyed my test and tren cycle, looking at it if i could change it id increase the tren doseage especialy, and run it longer, but i wasnt sure of how i was going to react etc so opted to a low short cycle of tren for my first go

On that note my thoughts were either;

500mg test e 16 weeks, 300mg tren e 14 weeks

Or

500mg test e 16 weeks, 400mg tren e 14 weeks

Or

250mg test e 16 weeks, 300mg tren e 14 weeks

Can i go from 200mg tren on my first cycle to 400mg? Or should i stay safe and go 300mg?

Anything is possible, i can add other stuff like masteron or an oral like winstrol at the end or whatever others suggest? Or do i leave the tren and try something different?

Thanks all!

[TheTaxMan]

Bump

[thephoenix25]

I cannot offer any advice as I don't have any experience with Tren , Winny or Masteron , but I thought I'd just say that:

I think you should be focusing on your PCT right now. It is tempting to plan for your next cycle at the end of the last, but in my experience all those plans change as you go through PCT and spend time stabilizing before the next cycle. You would do well to wait till 6 weeks after your last day of PCT, get bloods to confirm all is good then evaluate what you've kept and in which direction you want to go. That is not to say there is any harm in planning, but for me it has almost always changed by the time I cycle again. Maybe put a lockbox where you keep your gear and add your monthly spend to the box so you're in the position to buy all you need when you can be sure of what you want to buy. I find having gear waiting around to be used is a temptation that I'm not great at resisting too lol.

Sorry if this comes across like I'm peeing on your parade, but I suspect this is why you've not got any responses.

[TheTaxMan]

I couldnt agree with you more, it is probably best putting the cash a side, i did think this and have done before, however i get tempted to spend it on something else

I also suspected that was why there was no responses, i cant see me choosing anything other than test and tren , best stuff ive used, il post again in a couple of months, thanks Phoenix

[thephoenix25]

My post PCT plan is:

When I'm happy with my bloods and I can see my weight is stable for a few weeks, I then take photos, lots of photos, spread out over a week to dismiss any "bad days". Then pick out the best ones and analyse my body, compare the gains to before the cycle and look for what I want to change and why. I invariably want to lose some bf at this point so I go on a slow easy cut for 2-3 months. I usually stop when I reach around 12% as below that seems to strip off muscle much faster for me. Then more photos and compare again. At this point, I'm in a position to see what I want to change and what work needs to be done. It's only really at this point do I decided what the next cycle should consist of. I'll be the first to admit I don't have the most impressive physique, but the game for me is all about the work in progress. This gives me some focus in between the cycles and a goal to reach before the next cycle.

As for the saving of the money, open a new bank account and direct debit your cash on payday, cut up the bank card so you'll have to go into the bank to withdraw the money. Stops me taking it out 'cos I'm lazy like that lol.

[TheTaxMan]

I think you have a great physique, and everyones at different levels but we are all on the same ship,

i need to lose another 7% bodyfat to get where i want to be, and probably gain another 14lbs of muscle.

Everythings work in progress

I usualy hold on to most of my muscle after cycle, but i also hold the fat, so i know that i need to filter more crap out of my diet and up my cardio. Next cycle will be quaity lean mass thats why i know i will be using test and tren

Just not sure of the doses to take

Thinking going all out 500 test 400 tren

[here2grow]

If your happy with your current cycle n results... Just do it again when your ready.
You know how your body reacts to the stuff. So try either, 350 test 300 tren . 400 test 350 tren. 500 test 400 tren.


Your diet & training will be the outcome, Regardless of how much you inject.

Good luck

[aspire-power]

400 Tren and 250 test ? bring on lean solid gains

[AR's King Silabolin]

Look into mk-677. A bit expensive but you dont have to run 25 mg. Im on 12,5 mg and the pump is amazing. I also feel i burn extra fat. If safe, research shows it lowers ldl-cholestrol!! and can be used as a bridge, in pct or on cycle. It also makes your other stuff more effective. Teori benefits are endless. Im running lgd and trt-dose test, bumped up to 500 test e one week ago, so new pump must come from the mk-677.

[TheTaxMan]

Thanks for the replies!

My body likes Test, was considering runing Test at 500mg, although 250mg seemed enough, id like a bit more! Lean gains can still be produced from high test with a clean diet and runing an AI etc.

Im more stuck with the tren dose, do i jump from 200 to 300 or 350 or 400?

@sil ive never heard of mk677, no idea what it is, will read up on it.

[here2grow]

tren at 200mg weekly is for lean mass and fat loss, Upping it too 300mg or 400mg for your next cycle is fine. No reason to go over 400mg as of yet.

TREN doses
Beginner dose 200mg
Intermediate dose 300-400mg <-- 400mg is perfect
Advance dose 800+ <--Not now lol


Try tren at 400mg weekly & Just add 250mg of test, for down stairs



Searching online it seems like everyone likes doing a 2:1 ratio with tren & test.. So 250 test with 400 tren.
The test part is up to you. As you already know bumping the test to 500mg you'll need to run a AI. If you don't mind running a AI..? BANG that test up to 500mg (but its not needed tbh)

If I was to do a test & tren cycle.. I would just go with 250mg test & 400mg tren.

[TheTaxMan]

From what i read its pretty split, some like high test with their tren some like low test

Hmmmm

[Oki-Des]

I think it is more personal preference rather than a rule. I personally have never run more tren than test at any given time; but I have read that plenty of people have. But, I would never suggest that someone should run more test than tren just because that is what I do. I have had good results with low doses of tren added in; and I know people running higher doses of tren have had great results too.
The only reason I might suggest running lower doses of tren for a first go is because tren tends to offer more side effects than test and it might be a good idea to ease into it rather than going overboard; until you know how you personally react on tren.

[davidtheman100]

From what i read its pretty split, some like high test with their tren some like low test

Hmmmm

You'd probably look more flat and less volumized with lower test and high tren but then again you'd be pretty damn hard and vascular especially now when you're over 10% and have some trap veins i can't imagine what they'd look like at 6-7%

[TheTaxMan]

Cheers David, do you mean you think i should go high test?
Doubt id ever be 6/7% bf lol i like a beer on a weekend too much

Id be happy with 10-12% dont know if you can look vascular at that bodyfat, starting to see a lot of veins in my arms now but they arent out enough can just see blue lines everywhere

[NACH3]

I would like to think that if anyone ran 200mgs of tren in their first run why would anyone DOUBLE the dose - especially if your liking the results you got from 200mgs of tren e?!?! Just sayin - plus that's like doubling your test dose after one cycle at 500mgs - to a G!

And I love running high test(700-50) w/any compound(I am lean bulking so higher test will yield more mass) - I just love test...

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Many people don't recommend back to back tren cycles.
Many people don't recommend tren cycles longer than 8-10 weeks.
I bet if you saw what your lipids look like you wouldn't be debating running double your dose now for an extra month.

[TheTaxMan]

Think 300mg is the more sensible route then?
I also thought a lot of people on here only use test and tren

[MrFreshmaker]

Think 300mg is the more sensible route then? I also thought a lot of people on here only use test and tren

Are you planning to do blood tests after the cycle?I heard tren is very harsh on lipids.You better check that.

[TheTaxMan]

I didnt plan on getting them done, was just going to do the time on + pct = time off.

I dont how walking in your doctors and asking them to check bloods before during and after cycle they would comply with that? Fair enough a one off check, but going back and forth would they not refuse?

[NACH3]

Think 300mg is the more sensible route then?
I also thought a lot of people on here only use test and tren

What do you mean in bold?

[TheTaxMan]

I mean i thought there is a lot of users on here than once they use tren they often dont bother with things like deca anymore.

They just use test and tren every cycle, i could be wrong but ive often seen people write thats all the compounds they ever use.

[TheTaxMan]

@david - not bad veins for a fatty eh?

[tectime]

Back to back tren cycles is not a good idea. Your lipids and liver values need to return to in range. Tes and deca will always be the most common stack anywhere. People that do back to back tren are really hardcore or making money with their body in one form or another or a keyboard cowboy who has never done tren but wants you to think they have. Hahaha! Your low dose cycle went well and that's great. They always do if done halfway proper. Back to back and double the dose ..... Gonna be a different story. Give your body time to get right( and that's coming from a dude who never really comes down from a blast without starting the next haha! ) but with tren the break us a must!

[TheTaxMan]

Thanks

You suggesting i take longer than a 4 month break

Or run a different compound for my next cycle? I have 20ml of deca put away, just enjoyed then tren cycle a lot

[NACH3]

Thanks

You suggesting i take longer than a 4 month break

Or run a different compound for my next cycle? I have 20ml of deca put away, just enjoyed then tren cycle a lot

Tax - it's clear what he's saying brotha...

Also, if you choose deca - this will surely have you know that your water intake diet and training are on point - it's not like the fat burning tren but w/a good diet and training routine & adequate water intake - you'll see how on point it is - if you cycled at your bf(pre-cycle status) you would've had a hard time

This whole time your solidifying your gains etc after wards start a long pre-cycle prime for your bf to be in the 12ish% range - you'll be much happier that you did(if lower go lower your opening up a growth window to work with!

[TheTaxMan]

So basicaly if im well primed and everythings in check (diet and training)

I can obtain lean mass from a test and deca cycle just as much as i can feom a test and tren cycle?

[NACH3]

Yes and no as your nutrition & training dictates results period, but deca is a different compound known more for mass gains(u can try NPP it's a short ester Nandrolone which in my experiences I like better for a leaner look... Coupled w/prop and it's a good one) or deca for more mass... You may get a lil bloated(but the more water you take in the more you'll be expelling)...

[TheTaxMan]

I prefer less jabs and for that reason prefer long estered.
Will probably shoot a test and deca cycle then, didnt realise the complications in runing tren back to back. Might even just run a test only cycle.

14 weeks test e 500mg

Or 14 weeks test e 500mg, 12 weeks deca 400mg

Given my cycle history, do you think 500mg of test is still a good dose or do i need to hit more towards 750mg?

I personaly think given the fact ive only use 250mg test for 12 weeks in the last 3 years i should react pretty well to 500mg test?

[NACH3]

I prefer less jabs and for that reason prefer long estered.
Will probably shoot a test and deca cycle then, didnt realise the complications in runing tren back to back. Might even just run a test only cycle.

14 weeks test e 500mg

Or 14 weeks test e 500mg, 12 weeks deca 400mg

Given my cycle history, do you think 500mg of test is still a good dose or do i need to hit more towards 750mg?

I personaly think given the fact ive only use 250mg test for 12 weeks in the last 3 years i should react pretty well to 500mg test?

Then there's no need to TRIPLE your test dose - as you don't even know how your body will react to 500mgs/wk - it's up to you and your goals... Like this cycle your finishing up... You ran low dose test w/low dose tren making it arch more fat losing protocol(low dose test/tren will burn fat like no other) - no need to run test over 500mgs/wk if you've been running 250/wk and surely not 750mgs/wk...

The higher your test the more mass/size you should put on(lean and clean tho) stacked w/deca and you have a mass building cycle which is still dictated by your diet and what/when/how much you'll be eating - either a surplus etc based on what your looking to achieve! I'm not a cal deficit kind of guy - I'd rather carb cycle

[TheTaxMan]

Im torn between

Test e 500mg 12 Weeks
Winstrol 50mg ed for 6 weeks at the end of the cycle (finishing just before pct)

Or

Test e 500mg 14 weeks
Deca 400mg 12 weeks
Winstrol 50mg ed for 6 weeks at the end of the cycle (finishing just before pct)


The way im going i think i will, and definatley want to be 12%ish bodyfat before starting it, diet will be clean, but with everything need to gain good mass.
Winstrol in there to help achievd a more dry finished physique

What do you think?

Thanks for taking the time to input your thoughts nach

[NACH3]

Im torn between

Test e 500mg 12 Weeks
Winstrol 50mg ed for 6 weeks at the end of the cycle (finishing just before pct)

Or

Test e 500mg 14 weeks
Deca 400mg 12 weeks
Winstrol 50mg ed for 6 weeks at the end of the cycle (finishing just before pct)


The way im going i think i will, and definatley want to be 12%ish bodyfat before starting it, diet will be clean, but with everything need to gain good mass.
Winstrol in there to help the dry finished product.

What do you think?

Thanks for taking the time to input your thoughts nach

Winny is gtg if your at or under 10-12% anything over and it won't dry you out - a lil but if you were at a solid 12% when introducing the Winny then you'd see some effects - if not get yourself primed and ready so you can use. It to its effectiveness!

This is the one problem with trying to put a plan together during a cycle... Your body will change in that time making your decisions either easier or harder depending on where your bf is at that time... So re-evaluate 8wks after pct

[aspire-power]

Just saying .. **** deca . Coming into summer here also how can you go from Tren - lean gains amazing pumps next level gear ... To deca bloating good pumps and joint relief also just big gains ... I think you need to choose a path here
If you can tell I'm a long term Tren user and won't use anything else just Tren and test works best with my body . Don't get me wrong each to there own but so far what I've read your 500mg test e with 400mg Tren e ew is best cycle you have said ..

[TheTaxMan]

Well other than the winstrol

The goal is always to gain more muscle and to lose more fat
So in that sense, i feel i can still plan the main compounds of my cycle.

I cant afford to buy everything on one months salary due to other commitments
I also am bad for putting money a side as it will be spent on other things lol

So i like to create a sensible and achieveable plan, stick with it.

When doing this i order my stuff every payday starting with the pct, ai etc and the compounds last in order to avoid temptation of starting early.

I will only use;
test, tren , deca , winny, mast

Tren is out of the question for my next cycle as you guys have made me aware. So that only really leaves me with a test or test/deca cycle. Which i feel i can start planning now.

[TheTaxMan]

Just saying .. **** deca . Coming into summer here also how can you go from Tren - lean gains amazing pumps next level gear ... To deca bloating good pumps and joint relief also just big gains ... I think you need to choose a path here
If you can tell I'm a long term Tren user and won't use anything else just Tren and test works best with my body . Don't get me wrong each to there own but so far what I've read your 500mg test e with 400mg Tren e ew is best cycle you have said ..

Thanks, not sure if you are reading my log as im using 250mg test e 200mg tren e

Do you run tren cycles back to back? How often and do you get your bloods done?

Summer here has just finished, wont see summer until 6 months now

[here2grow]

Just saying .. **** deca . Coming into summer here also how can you go from Tren - lean gains amazing pumps next level gear ... To deca bloating good pumps and joint relief also just big gains ... I think you need to choose a path here
If you can tell I'm a long term Tren user and won't use anything else just Tren and test works best with my body . Don't get me wrong each to there own but so far what I've read your 500mg test e with 400mg Tren e ew is best cycle you have said ..

lol tren seems tempting man. You should be the salesman for tren I might try it next year during winter.