Need help on dosage and why I'm feeling this way

**Modifiedamerican** · 09-28-2016, 01:03 PM

Long story short I was diagnosed with low t a year ago. I'm 28, 5"11 200lbs, 15% body fat. After struggling with doctors for almost a year and not prescribing me anything higher then 100mg a week I decided try things out my self. I've been dealing with low t ( last test I got from my doctor after Being on 100mg week for 4 weeks came back with a free t level of 7.1. High normal range was 57) I was still feeling terrible and it was taking a toll on my marriage and almost losing my job. For one month I took 600mg of test e a week. I felt great. Had my sex drive back wasent getting any hot flashes, I finally had an appetite and was able to go to the gym daily and be productive at work. As before, when I would go to the gym I would litterly be sick the rest of the day, tired, no appetite just terrible. Now since I have low t I know I'll have gone on this the rest of my life. From my understanding 600mg a week isn't something can do for life so I lowered my dose to 250mg a week for a little over a month. This whole month I have felt terrible again. Not quite as bad as being on 100mg a week but very close. I'm needing more sleep again, I have lost my sex drive, my appetite has gone back down not really wanting to eat. My energy has also fallen. So I'm really not sure on what to do. I'm very discouraged again as I thought I was on the right path. My idea was to go back up to 500mg a week for 1 month and gradually go down to where I feel good but have my dosage be as low as possible since I have to be on this for life. Also I'm not concerned about fertility as I had a vesectamy already and a little testicular atrophy is fine. Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated.

**hammerheart** · 09-28-2016, 01:15 PM

Have you ever had bloodwork? What test are you using, is it UGL or pharma grade? It can be a tad underdosed.

**Mr.BB** · 09-28-2016, 01:19 PM

Whats the reason for the low testosterone ?

Low testosterone at your age is just a symptom of an underlying condition, which might very well be the reason you feel bad.

We need to see full bloodwork in order to try and help.

**Modifiedamerican** · 09-28-2016, 01:38 PM

these where the last labs drawn after 2 doctors and a year of themctrying to figure things out. I felt like I had no option other thento take things into my own hands and try and get my life back. I was never told why I have low t other then I don't have a tumor sense they checked.

**Modifiedamerican** · 09-28-2016, 01:49 PM

Here's the only things they tested for

Dhea-s 118mcg/dl ( normal 80-500)
Free testosterone 346 ng/dl ( 280-800)
Free testosterone 7.6ng/dl ( 8.7-54.7)
Estridol 25 ( 53-63)

**hammerheart** · 09-28-2016, 01:57 PM

This is your initial bloodwork?

No LH, FSH, PRL? No CBC, liver, kydney, thyroid?

**Modifiedamerican** · 09-28-2016, 02:00 PM

Nope. They checked all that originally and they said it was all fine. And that what I just posted is what they check monthly while I was on trt

**Mr.BB** · 09-28-2016, 02:10 PM

Its not normal for me to repeat myself, but I'll make the effort.

There is a reason why your testicles don't produce enough testosterone . Any half good doctor would try and find the reason, any half brain patient would like to know the reason. What happens if your low T is due to cancer?? you just feed it with testosterone??

I'm kinda guessing you went to low T clinic, well, these clinics make money out of giving testosterone to patients, they dont really care why as long you are paying.

Disclaimer: about the cancer I was doing an exaggeration as its extremely rare, still it should be checked.

**hammerheart** · 09-28-2016, 02:17 PM

The problem is at this point FSH&LH will be suppressed from the Test, so no way to know whether he was primary or secondary in first place.

**75 Dogs** · 09-28-2016, 03:37 PM

I am NOT an expert on AAS, but have been on TRT for a couple years and have read a bunch, so I'll throw a bunch of stuff out there.

100mg/week might not have worked for you and is probably on the low end of TRT. But 250mg, from what I understand, is past the high end of TRT and considered excessive. 200mg is about as high as I hear people go. I personally am under that at 180mg/week, and I've only heard of a few people under doctor's orders that are dosed higher than that.

I'd also follow a regimen where you are injecting twice a week (split your dose) so that you have sustained levels throughout.

After that external Test gives you steady numbers (from bloodwork) you may still be feeling like shit. Why? Because your estrogen may be high or low. If the results above are true [Estridol 25 ( 53-63)]...it's no wonder you feel like shit. Are you taking an Aromatase Inhibitor? Maybe you crashed all your functions and you haven't had enough time or Test to convert to estrogen (speculation and I could be wrong)? The effects of high and low estrogen can be the same. Also, they are supposed to be doing the Sensitive Estradiol if they aren't...my scale for those numbers is different than your results.

And finally, if you are paying for all this yourself can you just get a different doctor? Most of them suck, but some don't. You can find them online and they don't even have to live in your city. It seems just from the lack of blood work done on you by your other doctor, and the fact they didn't try to figure out in the beginning why you had low T, that he/she didn't really know what they were doing (I'm speculating here).

Again, let me stress I'm no expert and just offering up some thoughts. Someone more experienced may be able to help you more.

**Modifiedamerican** · 09-28-2016, 03:37 PM

I went to a natural medicine holsictic type place that does hormonal things to. Iv therapy ect. Instead of prescribing me arimidex right off the bat they tried zinc and calcium

**75 Dogs** · 09-28-2016, 03:41 PM

Whoops, forgot to add:

Also, once those are okay, you'll need regular blood work to make sure your other levels aren't getting out of control, you aren't getting liver problems, blood pressure, etc.

....hope this doesn't post a bunch of times

**Modifiedamerican** · 09-28-2016, 03:54 PM

I'm at the point where I'm ready to just give up and realize I'll suffer the rest of my life. I live in a small city and it was just luck that I found this doctor that was willing to help. The other 2
Doctors just blew me off because I was technically in the Norma range but for like an 80 year old man.

**hammerheart** · 09-28-2016, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Modifiedamerican

I'm at the point where I'm ready to just give up and realize I'll suffer the rest of my life. I live in a small city and it was just luck that I found this doctor that was willing to help. The other 2
Doctors just blew me off because I was technically in the Norma range but for like an 80 year old man.

You can actually do it on your own, I do, but you need to know how to take care of yourself. You can't stay high on test without an AI, the estrogen from aromatization will negate the benefits from TRT (and do many other bad things also). You should pull bloods regularly in order to assess your hormones and health status.

Besides, there are even online clinics these times, which is less than ideal but still better than nothing.

Please don't let yourself down, I'm sure you can find a way.

**Mr.BB** · 09-28-2016, 04:24 PM

If you don't have full blood work, can't you do some and post it here so we can advice?

**75 Dogs** · 09-29-2016, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Modifiedamerican

I'm at the point where I'm ready to just give up and realize I'll suffer the rest of my life. I live in a small city and it was just luck that I found this doctor that was willing to help. The other 2
Doctors just blew me off because I was technically in the Norma range but for like an 80 year old man.

It sounds like you are overwhelmed. On a chance it can help you get back to a normal life, I'm going to attempt to outline what I think you need to do. MY OPINION ONLY. I will let those smarter than me chime in on where I am wrong.

First, you need to understand one thing. You are not looking to get on steroids . You are looking to bring normalcy back to your life and you need to come to grips that it's going to take a long time. What's a long time? Maybe a year, two, or three. You can google TRT Effects Chart and see suggested response times to TRT. (response is individual and it took me longer on almost all fronts)

As an example, even after I had my numbers dialed in, I had sexual problems well into a year and a half. Now nearing two years of injections (first year of topical was a waste of time) I'm still not back where I used to be, but I'm 90% better than I was thanks to TRT. You will find different functions come back at different intervals and that's just something you have to wait out.

So:

Option A - find a doctor and they will take care of all this for you. You will have to do some searching, and you may have luck finding a good one either in the HRT board here instead of the AAS board...or on another board dedicated solely to HRT.

Option B - Do it yourself and let these guys help you.

Get a full physical from a doctor to make sure you don't have anything major wrong and you can narrow it down to Low T. You should then find a place online that will write you a prescription to order blood work. You simply go into a local lab and they will draw it for you (you can find more in-depth articles on these boards, but it's easy). You've already been "messed with" so it may not be possible to know why you have Low T, but for purposes of determining a baseline you'll want a full panel including (I'm copying from a testing website):

CBC (includes immune cells, red blood cells and hematocrit)
CMP-14 (Includes kidney and liver function, glucose and electrolytes)
Lipid Panel (LDL, HDL, Triglycerides)
Testosterone free and total (LC/MS assay with no upper limit)
Estradiol, Sensitive (LC/MS assay)
DHEA-sulfate (Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate)
TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone)
Free T3 (Free Triiodothyronine )
PSA (Prostatic Specific Antigen)
LH (Luteinizing Hormone)
FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone)

Once you have that, you start your therapy and see how you respond. This involves making small adjustments one at a time (this is part of the reason it takes so long).

So I guess pick a number randomly, or based on what guys on TRT boards are averaging, and start injecting that. You stated 100mg a week didn't do anything, and 250mg a week is too much. Maybe start around 160mg/week split into two doses. For example 80mg on Sunday night, 80mg on Thursday morning. Whatever days you want as long as it's evenly spaced. If your results came back that you don't have any estrogen, don't take an AI at this time. You can, however, take HCG 3-5 times a week. Even if you don't want to have kids, it will keep your nuts from shrinking and has other benefits you can read about in a sticky on these boards. Check the HRT boards to see how much you want to take, but I'd suggest no more than 1,200 IU per week...you don't need to go crazy high on the amounts.

After I believe 4 weeks (maybe 6, I don't remember but I'm trying to give you an idea of the process) you will get bloods drawn again. You should see an adjustment to your Total T, Free T, and Estrogen. But you'll also be watching out to make sure your LS and FSH have been suppressed (meaning your body has stopped producing testosterone, the desired effect of TRT since you're now getting it externally) and your cholesterol levels, liver, etc. are still okay. How will you know? You probably won't, so simply post your results to the board and get some feedback from people who know what they are looking at.

At this point, the people on the board will tell you what to adjust for your therapy. It could be that your estrogen has come back and is now too high, so you'll want to start taking an AI to bring it down into the sweet spot in the middle of the numbers. It could be that your Testosterone levels are too high and you need to lower your dose. It could be they are too low and you'll need to up it 20mg more/week.

Then you take another blood panel 4 weeks later (after you've given your body a chance to respond to the changes) and see what other adjustments you'll have to make again. It could be you added an AI and your levels are now too low again, in which case you'll have to take a lower dose AI. Repeat this process until your numbers are good, then maintain this therapy checking bloods every six months to make sure everything is still on track. When you are at this phase, it's all about sitting back, being consistent with your treatment, and waiting for your old self to come back.

So it's not hard at all. Boiled down:
1) get a physical and lab work
2) post labwork to the board for advice & to spot red flags
3) start taking your testosterone and HCG
4) get a blood test 4 weeks later and post to the board again to see what adjustments you need to make (like add an AI)
5) repeat step 4 over and over until your numbers are good
6) heal

Again, I'll let those smarter than me correct anything I've said here. But I wanted to give you a general idea that you can get this taken care of, and not to be disappointed that it's going to take a long time...that's the nature of the beast with this.

**ScotchGuard02** · 09-29-2016, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Modifiedamerican

I'm at the point where I'm ready to just give up and realize I'll suffer the rest of my life. I live in a small city and it was just luck that I found this doctor that was willing to help. The other 2
Doctors just blew me off because I was technically in the Norma range but for like an 80 year old man.

I do know that most Doc's do not like to prescribe TRT. IMO, it's because they're not endocronologists and don't really know much about the hormonal system. If you have good insurance, I'd go to an endo and have them look at you. My doc didn't want to put me on TRT so I went to and endo and he told me he'd put me on it. I worked with him until we found the happy balance and then I just started self medicating. I'm a cheap skate and didn't want to keep paying a doctor to jab me in the butt. I can jab my own butt with the best of 'em. I would recommend you work with an endo until you find your happy point, then if you want to self medicate at least you know where you're at and where you want to be.