No wonder I wasn't seeing results lol...

**xyt** · 10-03-2016, 08:08 AM

So I'm on TRT (i actually am hypogondal w/o). I inject about .8-.9 cc weekly of cypionate , so roughly 160-180mg total per week. Recently I've decided I'm going to start adding low doses of one other compound at a time to see what kind of results I can get. So first, I ran anavar at like 25-30mg per week for like 5 weeks (didn't really buy enough) and saw no changes in weight or strength. Next, I ran TBol at 50mg per day for 6 weeks. I gained about 9 pounds and a good deal of strength.. actually loved TBol and will be using again for sure.

Next I decided I was gonna try out some Deca . My plan was to use 300 mg/wk.

However, I'm so used to filling to the 0.5 cc mark on my syringe for my twice weekly injection of testosterone , I used that same marker for my deca out of habit when drawing up. So I've been erroneously injecting only about 150 mg of deca per week for the past 6 weeks and been wondering why TBol is so vastly superior to such a highly touted drug. My 7th week of deca, which was today, I finally realized my mistake.. did a nice little facepalm and chuckle, and actually injected 1cc rather than .5 cc. Hopefully I notice a difference in the coming weeks in terms of results, because I've been let down by deca thus far. Not sure why I'm even typing this story here.. just figure surely I'm not the only one to have ever done this or maybe someone can appreciate my careless mistake.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 10-03-2016, 08:25 AM

Are you really 20yrs old?

**Marsoc** · 10-03-2016, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Are you really 20yrs old?

Lol knowing what I know now. I couldn't not imagine running all them compounds at that age let alone just testosterone and def not all them others. Let alone now , Its even hard considering my first cycle now. I'm still waiting and I'm 32

**Chicagotarsier** · 10-03-2016, 08:58 AM

Deca is weak and takes a large dose if it is your primary substance. It is also long ester unless specifically the short ester (NNP or whatever) You arent going to see much from this but joint pain relief.

Anavar has a 9 hour or so half life. Taking 25 a day is a waste. Most do 75-100 split to two doses a day. You will see what it does at that level.

I see no mention of AI. If so Tbol was just water retention.

Don't waste your money. If you are trying to accent TrT then buy enough substance and AI and call it what it is...a cycle. You will get way more results from 500 test and an AI than playing flavor of the week merry-go-round

**xyt** · 10-03-2016, 09:16 AM

Do i have myself listed as 20? wow, weird. I'm 30 and have been lifting for 10ish years all natty.. heavy squats and compound lifts always, so I've certainly paid my dues. Just experimenting at this point.

Chicagotarsier Tbol supposedly doesn't aromatize so are you sure it was water weight? Are you mistakenly thinking of Dbol ? I only lost about 3-4 lbs once I stopped the tbol. I actually have aromasin and arimidex but don't use them because they make me feel like complete shit even at minimal doses.

You recommend just increasing the test to 500 and taking an AI. That seems silly to me, as test gains are so ridiculously temporary i'll just be demoralized once I drop back down to TRT dose.

Also, I thought 400 mg deca was a respectable dose for muscle building. So certainly 300mg will yield me at least mild gains, right? I feel like everyone says something different though. It's so hard to determine what's what. I guess that's why i just want to try it for myself.

As for the anavar , I will definitely try it again at the high dose you've recommended.. curious to see what it can actually do.

**75 Dogs** · 10-03-2016, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by xyt

So I'm on TRT (i actually am hypogondal w/o). I inject about .8-.9 cc twice weekly of cypionate , so roughly 160-180mg total per week.

However, I'm so used to filling to the 0.5 cc mark on my syringe for my twice weekly injection of testosterone , I used that same marker for my deca out of habit when drawing up.

Just making sure that was a typo...you "inject about .8-.9 cc twice weekly of cypionate". So you mean you inject about .5cc twice a week...not .8-.9 twice a week, right? And I'm assuming this is 200 mg/ml?

Checking the math to triple-check you aren't doubling what you think you're getting.

(Also, reminds me of a story where a doctor prescribed me something at 100mg/day. Pharmacy f*ed up and gave me 20mg/day. So over the course of a month I only took the equivalent of 6 days dosage! I also was wondering wtf and why wasn't that stuff working?)

That seems silly to me, as test gains are so ridiculously temporary i'll just be demoralized once I drop back down to TRT dose.

Finally, would like someone to comment on this statement: "test gains are so ridiculously temporary i'll just be demoralized once I drop back down to TRT dose"

**xyt** · 10-03-2016, 12:26 PM

Wow, good catch. Yes, I mean .8-.9 cc total each week so 160-180 mg.. and yes, it's 200 mg/ml watson.

**75 Dogs** · 10-03-2016, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by xyt

Wow, good catch. Yes, I mean .8-.9 cc total each week so 160-180 mg.. and yes, it's 200 mg/ml watson.

Great, just lookin' out for ya

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 10-03-2016, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier

Deca is weak and takes a large dose if it is your primary substance. It is also long ester unless specifically the short ester (NNP or whatever) You arent going to see much from this but joint pain relief. Anavar has a 9 hour or so half life. Taking 25 a day is a waste. Most do 75-100 split to two doses a day. You will see what it does at that level. I see no mention of AI. If so Tbol was just water retention. Don't waste your money. If you are trying to accent TrT then buy enough substance and AI and call it what it is...a cycle. You will get way more results from 500 test and an AI than playing flavor of the week merry-go-round

T-bol gives dry gains.
D-bol gives wet gains.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 10-03-2016, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by xyt

You recommend just increasing the test to 500 and taking an AI. That seems silly to me, as test gains are so ridiculously temporary i'll just be demoralized once I drop back down to TRT dose.

Test gains are not ridiculously temporary.

I have no idea where you heard that.

Water weight is ridiculously temporary. Think d-bol.
As long as you keep your estrogen in check you won't gain excessive water weight with test.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 10-03-2016, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by xyt

Do i have myself listed as 20? wow, weird.

You have yourself listed as 18 as of your join date.
You joined two years ago so that would make you twenty.

**xyt** · 10-03-2016, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Test gains are no ridiculously temporary.

I have no idea where you heard that.

Water weight is ridiculously temporary. Think d-bol.
As long as you keep your estrogen in check you won't gain excessive water weight with test.

I came off trt at one point and lost like 15 lbs pretty quickly. I was on a low dose too.. like 120mg/wk and had been using an AI as well so estrogen was in like the 20s the entire time. So did I lose 15 lbs of muscle in a short period of time? doubtful. Was it water weight? If it was water weight, it certainly wasn't caused by elevated estrogen. So there has to be some sort of inherent water weight gain caused by the test alone. Not trying to sound insolent here as I know you're a veteran. I always just thought it was accepted that test gains are fleeting.

Also, I'm not sure why I listed myself as 18.. don't even remember doing it. I was 28 when I made it

**Couchlock** · 10-03-2016, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by xyt

I came off trt at one point and lost like 15 lbs pretty quickly. I was on a low dose too.. like 120mg/wk and had been using an AI as well so estrogen was in like the 20s the entire time. So did I lose 15 lbs of muscle in a short period of time? doubtful. Was it water weight? If it was water weight, it certainly wasn't caused by elevated estrogen. So there has to be some sort of inherent water weight gain caused by the test alone. Not trying to sound insolent here as I know you're a veteran. I always just thought it was accepted that test gains are fleeting.

Also, I'm not sure why I listed myself as 18.. don't even remember doing it. I was 28 when I made it

If you lost EVERY bit of weight, then your diet and training routines are very mediocre at best.

Even with an AI, OR low doses of TEST that don't require an ai, if your carbs are not in check, or your high body fat, your gonna fill up with WaWa my friend

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 10-03-2016, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by xyt

I came off trt at one point and lost like 15 lbs pretty quickly. I was on a low dose too.. like 120mg/wk and had been using an AI as well so estrogen was in like the 20s the entire time. So did I lose 15 lbs of muscle in a short period of time? doubtful. Was it water weight? If it was water weight, it certainly wasn't caused by elevated estrogen. So there has to be some sort of inherent water weight gain caused by the test alone. Not trying to sound insolent here as I know you're a veteran. I always just thought it was accepted that test gains are fleeting. Also, I'm not sure why I listed myself as 18.. don't even remember doing it. I was 28 when I made it

Testosterone itself does make you hold water.
But I would be hard pressed to believe 120mg of test per week will make you put on 15lbs of water.
Hell, when I blast 500-600mg of test per week I am lucky if I put on 15lbs in 12 weeks. And I sure as hell don't lose it when I go back to 100mg a week.

**75 Dogs** · 10-04-2016, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Test gains are not ridiculously temporary.

I have no idea where you heard that.

Thank you for addressing that.

**xyt** · 10-04-2016, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Testosterone itself does make you hold water.
But I would be hard pressed to believe 120mg of test per week will make you put on 15lbs of water.
Hell, when I blast 500-600mg of test per week I am lucky if I put on 15lbs in 12 weeks. And I sure as hell don't lose it when I go back to 100mg a week.

The difference being that's a blast cruise and I went off test completely. But I guess there's no such thing as keepable gains if you completely go off gear.

**xyt** · 10-07-2016, 07:26 AM

hey guys. I have a question related to the thread topic so I figured I'd just ask in this thread rather than starting a new one. So for the past week I've been shedding an insane amount of hair. It's like diffuse shedding over the entire scalp. A large portion of these hairs are full size and fully pigmented. So I'm wondering if perhaps a sharp hormonal change from the deca has caused shedding.. is this a thing? I know that 5ar inhibitors are discouraged when on deca due to nandrolone being more androgenic than its metabolite DHN. I'm not on a 5ar inhibitor but past propecia use I think messed up my 5ar functioning. I'm also not on an AI because they make me feel shitty (aromasin does at least.. currently no arimidex on hand). Anyway, has anyone noticed shedding caused by deca despite the fact that it's notoriously easy on the hairline? Gracias