Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Hurgo is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    7

    Trans FtM 1st cycle

    Hi there! Newby here!

    A little backgroung: 1m68, 66kg, 20%BF. Been training seriously for 5 years, diet watching for 3.

    I'm a transexual feamle to male which means i was born in a female body and underwent a transition so that my body match my mind. I started my transition 5 years ago, it includes test E injections (125mg every 2 weeks) for the rest of my life, and i had opeations such as mastectomie and total hysterctomie. This means that my only source of sexual hormone is exogenous and regulated by how much i inject myself, that i'm on a cycle or not.

    I have "experimented" a bit with test E in the past. I get in 250mg vial, most of FtMs use 3/4 or a whole vial every 2 weeks in order to maintain a normal range but for some reason i only need a 1/2. That's why in the past i've experimented using 250mg/2 weeks, 2 times for 3 months and once for 2months. Even with this dosage i've noticed a slowly steady increase in strenght, mass redistribution (i was eating at maintenance level) but as well hair thinning and hair line recession.

    Since i'm FtM i'm pretty sure i don't need a PCT since my normal testosterone is already exogenous. However I'm not sure with AI. Can someone tell me if the aromatisation happens in the sexual organs only or everywhere in the body? If it is done by sexual organs i'm pretty sure i won't need it.

    I am seriously considering to start a cycle know. Despite my constant training and diet i've only been able to put on 2kgs for the last 3 years.

    Considering the 2ary effetcs that i had already on low doses of test E and the fact that my test lvl are exogenous, I'm considering a Nadrolone decanoate only cycle(400mgEW).
    I wouldn't have any problem of deca dick since i will still inject myself with my base of 125mg E2W or even might do 250mg E2W for the 1st month waiting for the deca to kick in.
    From what i've read it is the main concern why people don't do a dec cycle only, however this particular problem doesn't apply to me.
    However i might be wrong and if so can someone tell what would be the other reasons to not do a deca cycle only?


    Many thanks

  2. #2
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    Hi there!
    Very intresting post and nice to have you!

    Since you are always "on" T you don't need no PCT no, at least not the what we usually mean. But one could always use some time when you're back on normal T levels (the one you're normally on), to take care of your body by using supplements and time to let HDL and lipids normalize, and so on.
    But short answer is no, no PCT is necessary.

    As for AI, yes it can affect breast tissue, but you got that removed?
    If so, nothing to worry about.
    But, you might still want an AI to keep E2 (estradiol) levels down,
    as high levels increase water retention, blood pressure, moodyness, and sexual function (to much E I struggle getting a boner, too little and I struggle even more, got to be normal, but higher can be more forgiving than lower in that regard, it also has to do with how much androgens are in your body)

    So you might want to include an AI, I would really advice you to get some arimidex to have on hand, and use if you go to like 500mg Test e a week.

    Deca shouldn't be any problem either.
    But you might need to up T when on it, but that's not my experience.
    Btw, what sexual organs do you have?
    The more androgens u use the more the clitoris will grow,
    I don't know if that would be an issue for you or not.

    Remember to get diet key'd in before cycle.
    Also, 20% BF will increase aromatization and increase the need to an AI.

    We usually recommend people (men) to drop BF before cycling as it increases side effects.

  3. #3
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    Oh, and yes, estrogen will affect your entire body if that wasn't clear.
    While that usually means breast tissue and sexual organs, it also affects fat distribution.
    If you've been training that long and kept diet in place,
    I think you might see a benefit in keeping E2 down with an AI.
    (Just don't crash it completely)

    I notice that when I use an AI i lose more fat from stubborn areas like a thin layer over buttocks/glutes.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurgo View Post
    Hi there! Newby here!

    A little backgroung: 1m68, 66kg, 20%BF. Been training seriously for 5 years, diet watching for 3.

    I'm a transexual feamle to male which means i was born in a female body and underwent a transition so that my body match my mind. I started my transition 5 years ago, it includes test E injections (125mg every 2 weeks) for the rest of my life, and i had opeations such as mastectomie and total hysterctomie. This means that my only source of sexual hormone is exogenous and regulated by how much i inject myself, that i'm on a cycle or not.

    I have "experimented" a bit with test E in the past. I get in 250mg vial, most of FtMs use 3/4 or a whole vial every 2 weeks in order to maintain a normal range but for some reason i only need a 1/2. That's why in the past i've experimented using 250mg/2 weeks, 2 times for 3 months and once for 2months. Even with this dosage i've noticed a slowly steady increase in strenght, mass redistribution (i was eating at maintenance level) but as well hair thinning and hair line recession.

    Since i'm FtM i'm pretty sure i don't need a PCT since my normal testosterone is already exogenous. However I'm not sure with AI. Can someone tell me if the aromatisation happens in the sexual organs only or everywhere in the body? If it is done by sexual organs i'm pretty sure i won't need it.

    I am seriously considering to start a cycle know. Despite my constant training and diet i've only been able to put on 2kgs for the last 3 years.

    Considering the 2ary effetcs that i had already on low doses of test E and the fact that my test lvl are exogenous, I'm considering a Nadrolone decanoate only cycle(400mgEW).
    I wouldn't have any problem of deca dick since i will still inject myself with my base of 125mg E2W or even might do 250mg E2W for the 1st month waiting for the deca to kick in.
    From what i've read it is the main concern why people don't do a dec cycle only, however this particular problem doesn't apply to me.
    However i might be wrong and if so can someone tell what would be the other reasons to not do a deca cycle only?


    Many thanks
    Welcome to the forum. In your case, as long as you maintain a base level of Testosterone, you can run practically anything on top of it including Deca.

  5. #5
    Hurgo is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    7
    Thank you guys fo you quick replies! =)

    I have my orginal plumbing (unfotunatly this type of operation is still experimental for FtMs) and I absolutly do not care if the clit increases in size, so that's antoher problem out of the way. And yeah already had a mastectomie, so unless the surgeron fucked up and there's some residual breast tissues i shld be safe when it comes to gynecomastia .
    I'll run arimidex though, just to be safe.

    And what do you mean by "just don't crash it completly"? Are you talking about the E2 or AI?

  6. #6
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    30,105
    He's referring to your estrogen level as it feels horrible to crash your E2 via to much AI.

    Welcome to the forum and good luck! Be sure you check out all the other forums as well and have some fun!


    ps: you should kick your doc and trainer in the nuts if they have any.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  7. #7
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    Keep us updated on how it goes and when you have a layout for your first cycle.
    I would advice you to use Test only (with an AI) for your "first ride",
    Because even though you know how test e affects you,
    you don't know how 500mgs/week is gonna affect you.

    So as a start I'd say just up your T, actually 500mg/week is gonna be more than enough at your weight and stage.
    But do get arimidex . With 20% BF you will notice the effects of high E2, and probably get puffed up like a balloon.
    With correct dosing of an AI this should be prevented.
    (Some bloat will happen and is ok, but you don't need an extra chin f.ex)

    Btw. Do you care if your hair line recedes?
    You said you allready noticed this, and if you're genetically prone to hair loss from androgens then using more might cause more hair loss.
    (Some people use finasteride to prevent hair loss, but I wouldn't, get something that works locally in the skin instead, like ketoconazol shampoo)

    Remember that diet and training is key, AAS is just the icing on the top of the cake.

  8. #8
    dreadnok89 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    978
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurgo View Post
    Thank you guys fo you quick replies! =)

    I have my orginal plumbing (unfotunatly this type of operation is still experimental for FtMs) and I absolutly do not care if the clit increases in size, so that's antoher problem out of the way. And yeah already had a mastectomie, so unless the surgeron fucked up and there's some residual breast tissues i shld be safe when it comes to gynecomastia .
    I'll run arimidex though, just to be safe.

    And what do you mean by "just don't crash it completly"? Are you talking about the E2 or AI?
    Ya make sure you don't let your estrogen go low. You will fill awful no matter how high your T is. Ironically enough my wives sister was feeling awful and thought she had arthritis but after a hormone test she had very low estrogen. Crazy. Every time we feel horrible we never check our hormones

  9. #9
    Hurgo is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    7
    Thanks the advices about the E2.

    Yeah, hair loss is one of the problems i actually do care about. I already have problems with 250mgE2W, so i'm pretty sure if I rune 500mgEW it's going to be a complete catastrophy. That's I was talking about a nandrolone decanoate only cyle in my 1st post. From what I understood since since it converts to DHN instead of DHT it's a lot easier on the hair.

    From what I've seen most cycles uses 400mgEW of deca so I'm think of doing but with maintaining my test E at 125mgE2W. Everything for 12 weeks. I'm not sure how much of the AI i should take thought. Most of the dosages are for a stackin test+deca, and since i'm only gonna run deca should i take less AI?
    Plus I read it aromatize at only 20% the rate of test so overall should i even take an AI (considering I'm 20%BF as well)?


    If indeed the overall yield of estrogen is so much smaller, and so is the rate of androgen receptor stimulation, how then is Deca Durabolin so anabolic ? The common belief is through a third receptor : the progesterone receptor. It has been concluded that both Deca Durabolin2 and several of its metabolites3,4 do indeed activate the progesterone receptor and are altered by it. On the one hand progestagenic activity decreases the estrogen receptor concentration in some tissues, it also mediates estrogenic action in other tissues5. So while estrogenic side-effects are fairly uncommon with Deca Durabolinuse alone, they can indeed occur and the implications of Deca Durabolin 's activity as a progesterone indicate these potential side-effects aren't to be solved with an aromatase inhibitor alone (like Cytadren ). As long as there is estrogen in the system (indicating a possible increase of the problem when stacked with another aromatizing compound) progesterone can agonize its effects. And since progesterone receptors are found in breast tissue and have been linked to the formation of milk ducts, progestagenic activity may aggravate possibly gynocomastia. So while such problems are rare, when they occur they aren't easily treated.

    It makes sense then that those particularly prone to the effects and side-effects of estrogen would take extra precaution. Blocking aromatase, considering the previous paragraph, would be a poor choice, but competitively inhibiting the estrogen receptor itself with clomiphene citrate (Clomid) or tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex) might bring some relief since a large portion of progestagenic action is nullified if there is no circulating estrogen around, or if it is kept from being activated by the estrogen receptor. It is generally assumed that 1 mg of either every day for every 20 mg of Deca Durabolin injected weekly is sufficient. Slightly higher doses, or the use of an aromatase inhibitor like cytadren can be stacked if Deca Durabolin is used in conjunction with another aromatizing steroid. It has also been noted that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) may provide relief as it too binds to the progesterone receptor but remains unaltered by it. How strong of a competitor it is in such a case and what sort of doses would be needed are as much your guess as they are mine, so this may be non-issue. But it does bode well for the stacking of Deca Durabolin with stanozolol in that you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

  10. #10
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    A deca "only" cycle should be easy on the hair line yes,
    you got the part about it being converted to the lesser androgen DHN totally correct. I'd also advice you to look into ketoconazol shampoo for hair loss.
    Ketoconazol is anti fungal agent, but they discovered it was actually better than minoxidil (rogaine) at reducing/reversing hair loss, as it has both an anti androgenic action and an anti inflammatory action.
    Since you apply it locally, directly on to the skin, it wil work locally as well, not much will be absorbed so that DHT levels in the body (systemic circulation) will be affected.

    You might want to look into an AI even so,
    but take a blood test and check your serum E2 levels now.
    Then you know what your E2 levels are at the dose of T you'll be using on cycle as well, and report back to us what that E2 level was.
    Remember to post units of measurement as well, I suspect that will be nmol/L but I could be wrong, also ask for a sensitive E2 test if they have that option.

    It might be that you're E2 is high with just your maintainence dose of T as well,
    and when running deca it will rise a little, but since it's also a progestin it will augment E2 mediated effects by other mechanisms than increasing E2.

    Also, many like to use a DA (dopamine) agonist when running stuff like nandrolone and trenbolone . (19-nor compounds)
    This is to control prolactin, or reduce its secretion.

    You might also want to look into Primobolan Depot,
    It's easy on the hair line as well,
    and don't convert into E2 or have progestin effects.

  11. #11
    Hurgo is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    7
    Thanks for the advices, will do my blood check next week. Should i post it here or maybe start a new post (didn't see any special section for blood checks)?

    As for primobolan Debot, its properties looks very intresting but shoudn't it be actually harsher on the hair line? From what i've understood it's already converted DHT, so even finasteride wouldn't prevent hair loss from happening with it.

  12. #12
    Euroholic is offline "ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    A world without islam!!!!
    Posts
    7,092
    You got a photo mate?

  13. #13
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurgo View Post
    Thanks for the advices, will do my blood check next week. Should i post it here or maybe start a new post (didn't see any special section for blood checks)?

    As for primobolan Debot, its properties looks very intresting but shoudn't it be actually harsher on the hair line? From what i've understood it's already converted DHT, so even finasteride wouldn't prevent hair loss from happening with it.
    Primobolan is a DHT derivative drug, which just means the double bond in Testosterones A ring (in the steroid "skeleton", it's molecular composition, you got an A,B,C and D ring, where the D ring is only a 5 carbon ring),
    The double bond is reduced (removed), which makes it unable to fit with either the aromatase or the 5AR enzyme.
    It doesn't necessarily mean that it's more androgenic .
    Look at deca /nandrolone , which when converted to "DHT" (the A rings double bond is reduced), forms DHN which is a milder androgen.

    So, I think primo is much nicer than T on the hairline.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,795
    For DHT based hairloss finestride will help. Hairloss due to nor19's a different matter. The best thing is to get rogain from Costco and use it twice a day.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •