Time to get serious.

[Mr.BB]

How many people that start taking bp meds,at 30 die at 60?

Dont understand your question. I can tell you that if you at 30 (or at any age) have a consistent BP of over 180/100, the risk of having a heart or circulatory event in the near future is very high.

If you have you controlled BP the risk of a heart or circulatory problem, at any age, is very low.

But the risks are not only to heart, look here for the most important risks: Health Threats From High Blood Pressure

I have a brother that never touched gear and has a bp same as mine. Two years older, he also never ate the amounts of shit food I did. Its partly genetic. Like I said before, we are different people. When I die it will not be attributed to steroids , my family will gather around and say "he was a crazy ass guy", when I die.

I do not like doctors fluxuating opinions or the idea of blood pressure medications especially at a young age.
I can go to the doctor and get any medication I wish if I just find the right dumbass doctor. Im not eating that shit until its necessary. The end.

If your brother also have high BP he also needs to control it.

How you know when you have to take BP meds? High BP pressure is often called the silent killer, as it gives no indications or side effects of whats going on. But if you measure you BP and it is consistently high, you have to be really stupid not take action.

[Mr.BB]

Ok,thankyou for the replies.
First off,there are differences of opinion,regarding cycles and doses,and what i'm doing,is what i've thought about for years,not just a week/month/whatever.
The deca ,is by general consensus,a great aid to joints,which has caused my on off relationship with the gym.The use of test,is self explanatory.
I have a thorough health check,every year,and have passed with flying colours each time.
I neither drink,nor smoke,and my hobbies have always been active outdoor kinds,so i am pretty fit.
This may seem odd to some,or even stupid,but at my age,and after losing a couple of people,my own mortality is something i regularly think about.
What i have embarked upon,is part of a bucket list.When i was a lot younger,i trained like a lunatic,used numerous supplements,but could never
get my arms to go past 18 1/2 inches,or my chest bigger than 52 inches.Because of the health implications,i just would not use roids.
Now,in all honesty,i do not care greatly about the health implications,and illness and death gets us all sooner or later.
I've covered some bases,like having Arimidex ,and have my pct,for end of cycle reasons,but that's enough for me.
What i'm doing,will help me,or hurt me,but i'm a reasonably intelligent adult,and it's my choice.

Of course you can do whatever you choose to, but if you post something here you need to be ready for ppl to give their opinion.

Deca or any nandrolone is good on "joints" because of its anti-inflammatory effect. Yes, it will also increase collagen synthesis, but so does many other anabolic steroids . Does the anti-inflammatory effect together with increase collagen synthesis be good for healing joints? Yes, for some conditions, but that doesnt mean it will heal it.

Then ppl dont properly diagnose the "joints" problem. What is a joint problem? Major joints in our body are knees, shoulders and hips. Most joint problems are not in the joint itself but in the tendons and ligaments that connect muscles, bones and joints, why do ppl call it joint problem?

If you have a real joint problem, you will probably be facing prosthetic joint replacement soon, as major joints are not healable, there no blood vessels in side the joint where the problems occurs.

Arthritis is another joint problem, its a degenerative disease. Most common types of arthritis are rheumatoid arthritis and gout.

Joint problems in bodybuilding usually means excessive use due to too much volume workouts.

Ppl over 40 often think they can train like in their 20's, or that they need to go to the gym everyday for it to be effective. Also see ppl to crazy stuff like 10 sets of bench press. I can guarantee it that if I do 10 bench press sets, no matter the intensity, I will have joint pain the next day.

What Im trying to say is, properly diagnose your problem, either being arthritis or some tendon pain. And then evaluate if it cant be fixed by changing your training method.

Going back to the deca, deca is wrong as a first cycle because it is very supressive and many guys have problem recovering from it. Also it can induce high prolactin which is something a 1st timer is likely not know how to deal with.
Also deca IMO, is wrong for ppl with injuries because its going to lower the pain, but not actually heal the problem, which after cycle will prove to be a mistake, when the pain comes back even worse.

The first time you use anabolic steroids you dont really know what to expect and how to deal with things, or even if you are going to be able (or want to) to do it more. You should do it in a easy (but effective) way, and testosterone is all you need for it. It is a shame if you have to deal with deca dick, or have to go on unwanted TRT cause of non recovery.

All the best.

[kelkel]

I don't know of anyone to die as a direct result of any steroid. I'm not sure what you are asking? He wants to use deca in his first cycle for joint relief. I suggested if he was dead set on using deca for therapeutic reasons, there was no need in him using supraphysiological doses for that purpose. Maybe you just saw where I wrote "dead" and not "set". I wasn't saying he could die as a result in any way.

My response was simply re your "Enemy of the heart" and "horrible effects on the heart" comments, that's all.

[kelkel]

Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47.
Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22.
Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30.
Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32.
Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33.
Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33.
Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35.
Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37.
Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37.
Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40.
Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40.
Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41.
Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44.
Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44.
Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44.
Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45.
Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45.
Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45.
Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45.
Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47.
Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47.
Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49.
Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49.
Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49.
Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49.
Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50.
Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51.
Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52.
Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53.

But wait theres more....

Near death cases:

Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012.
Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011.
Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003.
Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39.
Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35.

These are just the famous ones and not all of them by a damn sight.
Yes, this shit can kill you and quick. Notice the trend heart/kidney

People die at all ages and all walks of life from the same things. Amazingly even non-bodybuilders.

Geez! You got that up quick!

Not the first time he's heard that from a man!

[Obs]

Dont understand your question. I can tell you that if you at 30 (or at any age) have a consistent BP of over 180/100, the risk of having a heart or circulatory event in the near future is very high.

If you have you controlled BP the risk of a heart or circulatory problem, at any age, is very low.

But the risks are not only to heart, look here for the most important risks: Health Threats From High Blood Pressure



If your brother also have high BP he also needs to control it.

How you know when you have to take BP meds? High BP pressure is often called the silent killer, as it gives no indications or side effects of whats going on. But if you measure you BP and it is consistently high, you have to be really stupid not take action.

I donated blood to bring down hematocrit levels. They put my brother on bp meds. He wont take them. He has even offered them to me. Ephedrine is a wonderful bodybuilding compound. It cuts fat and sheds water as well as being the best preworkout you will find, btw.it has also been known to increse skeletal muscle but I believe that to be a nervous energy factor.

Good info btw thank you for the link.

[kelkel]

They put my brother on bp meds. He wont take them.

Why not OB?

[Obs]

People die at all ages and all walks of life from the same things. Amazingly even non-bodybuilders.




Not the first time he's heard that from a man!

Look at the percentages and look up, the cycles people like this run. There are secretive ones but some where open about it. 2grams of test and tren a week will take your ass out of this world quickly. It is not bio friendly it will getcha. Its not a question and its not only high bp.

[Obs]

Why not OB?

He is a stubborn crazy ass like me and he believes he is too young for that business.

[kelkel]

Look at the percentages and look up, the cycles people like this run. There are secretive ones but some where open about it. 2grams of test and tren a week will take your ass out of this world quickly. It is not bio friendly it will getcha. Its not a question and its not only high bp.

Oh I understand the point you're making and it's possibly true as professional BB'ing is in no way a healthy endeavor. My point is that all types of people die from the same things. People get lung cancer yet they've never smoked. Proponents of runners (think Jim Fixx who popularized jogging) die of heart attacks and so on. I just don't think we can directly point to and with certaintity say it caused their deaths. Maybe one day that will happen, especially with kids these day and the massive amounts they want to run without any care for their long-term health.

From the CDC, 610,000 people die from heart disease yearly. One in four, mostly men.

[Nogbad the bad]

The reason we try to discourage the use of deca in a first cycle is because it makes it hard to pinpoint the cause of negative side effects with multiple compounds. Using deca probably won't hurt you and you might never have a negative side. We just encourage people to add one compound at a time so diagnosing side effects is easier.

I can tell you that I feel much better when on deca. I believe it helps the joints and makes lifting easier. However, I've had problems with blood pressure while on it. I have tried a small dose, 50mg/week, for therapeutic effects with limited success.

Keep an eye on your BP and don't go to hard in the gym. If you've only been back for 5 weeks your body isn't ready to lift the weights your muscles will be able to put up.

Good luck with everything.

Thanks for your views,they are appreciated.
Regarding only been back for 5 weeks,i meant training in a proper gym.I have almost a metric tonne of olympic weights and bars at home,and a
good quality leverage multi.It's just that my motivation has improved dramatically,now i have access to a much bigger variety of equipment.

[Nogbad the bad]

Make sure you're using an AI and HCG on cycle as suggested in the Successful First Cycle thread please. They really should not be optional if you remotely care about your health. Make sure you get adequate blood work about 8 weeks post pct as listed in the thread as well.

Best of luck.

Ok,thanks for that K.

[Nogbad the bad]

Lubricator? No. It eliminates swelling that is all. Glucosamine with msm is your joint lubricator.

Sorry,but i disagree.The water retention from use of deca does give joint relief,and as far as the glucosamine and msm are concerned,
i believe them to be nothing more than placebos,particularly,as i have tried them for long enough periods,without any positivity.

[Obs]

Oh I understand the point you're making and it's possibly true as professional BB'ing is in no way a healthy endeavor. My point is that all types of people die from the same things. People get lung cancer yet they've never smoked. Proponents of runners (think Jim Fixx who popularized jogging) die of heart attacks and so on. I just don't think we can directly point to and with certaintity say it caused their deaths. Maybe one day that will happen, especially with kids these day and the massive amounts they want to run without any care for their long-term health.

From the CDC, 610,000 people die from heart disease yearly. One in four, mostly men.

Nice legs.

[Obs]

Sorry,but i disagree.The water retention from use of deca does give joint relief,and as far as the glucosamine and msm are concerned,
i believe them to be nothing more than placebos,particularly,as i have tried them for long enough periods,without any positivity.

There are studies proving gluosamine. There are none saying deca lubricates a joint. Yes it alleviates swelling and pain. No lubrication. It is my favorite compound for my RA. If I stop taking it my pain will come right back. Four weeks i will tell you how 7 months of deca "healed" or "lubricated" my joints.

[Nogbad the bad]

I will catch shit for this but I personally believe being extremely muscular, even naturally, has its taxes on your lifespan. If you carry around half an extra person in muscle you wont live as long as if you hadn't been so big. IMHO

If it's about how long you live,and there's the choice
of enjoying life,and taking risks,and chances are your lights go out at sixty,or eat,drink,and everything else as healthily as possible,and live to be a hundred,so
you can enjoy defecating in your pants,and putting the tv remote in the microwave,then i'll take the former everytime!

[kelkel]

Nice legs.

Got bored with the other pic. And thank you.

[PT1982]

I have a brother that never touched gear and has a bp same as mine. Two years older, he also never ate the amounts of shit food I did. Its partly genetic. Like I said before, we are different people. When I die it will not be attributed to steroids , my family will gather around and say "he was a crazy ass guy", when I die.

I do not like doctors fluxuating opinions or the idea of blood pressure medications especially at a young age.
I can go to the doctor and get any medication I wish if I just find the right dumbass doctor. Im not eating that shit until its necessary. The end.

That's sort of like me. I was diagnosed and started on BP meds at 15. At 17 they added a beta blocker. At 20 they added another BP medication. I was very athletic and was a track and field star. But after renal tests, blood tests, and everything else, it was attributed to as hereditary and an anomaly for the most part. All the meds did kill my test levels and I was low T at a very young age.

[Nogbad the bad]

There are studies proving gluosamine. There are none saying deca lubricates a joint. Yes it alleviates swelling and pain. No lubrication. It is my favorite compound for my RA. If I stop taking it my pain will come right back. Four weeks i will tell you how 7 months of deca "healed" or "lubricated" my joints.

There are also 'studies',disproving glucosamine,and there is generally a financial connetion,between those pushing their wares,and the scientific 'experts'.

[PT1982]

Oh I understand the point you're making and it's possibly true as professional BB'ing is in no way a healthy endeavor. My point is that all types of people die from the same things. People get lung cancer yet they've never smoked. Proponents of runners (think Jim Fixx who popularized jogging) die of heart attacks and so on. I just don't think we can directly point to and with certaintity say it caused their deaths. Maybe one day that will happen, especially with kids these day and the massive amounts they want to run without any care for their long-term health.

From the CDC, 610,000 people die from heart disease yearly. One in four, mostly men.

That is a scary statistic. On I hope that all people will start taking seriously. I do feel that a life of fast food (which is common place country wide these past 2 decades) and snacking is much much more dangerous than casually using anabolics hear and there.

[Mr.BB]

Sorry,but i disagree.The water retention from use of deca does give joint relief,and as far as the glucosamine and msm are concerned,
i believe them to be nothing more than placebos,particularly,as i have tried them for long enough periods,without any positivity.

Lol, so you think the water gets retained inside the joint?!?!?

[mendogonzo]

Hi all,
After years of on and off bodybuilding,i've decided to give it one last shot.At forty eight,i understand my best years
are behind me,but undeterred,i'm back in the gym,doing a four day split routine,with the weekend consisting of
cardio,and a bit of forearm exercise.
I've never used a steroid before,but because of joint issues,i decided to have a cycle with deca .
Not wanting to use this on its own,i'm pinning 200mg of decanol,with 1 ml of T400.
I intend doing 12 weeks,but stopping the decanol at 10 weeks.I pin once a week,in my quads,and
have done so 4 times now.I feel generally better all round,than previous to starting a cycle,and my
energy levels,and libido are greatly improved.I haven't felt any serous strength gains yet,but wouldn't
expect any,at this early stage,although i am adding plates regularly,on the equipment.
Don't know if anyone has any views on my cycle,just thought i'd let you know what i was up to!

48 can be an advantage, if your joints are feeling good, your body's rested and the muscle your gain will be quality, not like when you were young. I know a lot of guys who thought that was when they got their best gains, in their 40's . Robby Robinson, Charles Glass, Arnold won his last Olympia in his fourties! Enjoy and good luck. I would take clomid and HCG at the end so you don't loose what you've gained if you're just doing the one cycle or you'll crash at the end and those joints will really hurt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Obs]

Got bored with the other pic. And thank you.

You are a horse. How many years did that take and what did you start with weight wise at 21-23?

[kelkel]

That is a scary statistic. On I hope that all people will start taking seriously. I do feel that a life of fast food (which is common place country wide these past 2 decades) and snacking is much much more dangerous than casually using anabolics hear and there.

Obesity is a disease per the FDA, which is ridiculous imho. People have little self control. Agree, intelligent use of AAS is far safer.

[kelkel]

You are a horse. How many years did that take and what did you start with weight wise at 21-23?

I started lifting as a teenager. In high school I was probably 150 ish. I'm probably your dads age but I don't believe in getting older and fading away..

[Nogbad the bad]

Lol, so you think the water gets retained inside the joint?!?!?

Lol hahaha,and all that 5hit,don't seem to recall saying that,and when i look at my post,seems i'm correct.

[Nogbad the bad]

48 can be an advAntage, if your joint are feeling good, your body's rested and the muscle you gain will. E quality, not like when you were young. I know a lot of guys who thought that was when they got their best gains. Enjoy and good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Appreciate that friend.
What i still have is muscle memory,and because i've never really let myself go,i have always been in reasonable shape.
Never been into junk food,haven't touched alcohol for 30 years,lived pretty clean.Looking at my physique/reflection,in the gym,
i have more of the look of a sprinter/athlete,than a bodybuilder,because i'm tall and quite lean.
I'm not looking to gain huge overall size,just well sculpted muscles,the ones people don't really notice,till the shirt comes off.
It's not that easy,finding nice clothes,at the size i am now,so 10-15lbs os so,will more than do me.A friend of mine,is a 22 stone
strongman,and his clothing looks like pyjamas!

[Mr.BB]

Lol hahaha,and all that 5hit,don't seem to recall saying that,and when i look at my post,seems i'm correct.

Your phrase was "The water retention from use of deca does give joint relief", how does that work then? Please explain the process of the water retention giving joint relief...

[Quester]

A man in mid-life thinking about doing steroids is facing a much different decision than a male entering adulthood.

I had a similar thread to this one a few months ago. Doc, or another member, pointed me to this article in Pubmed (or NCBI-or whatever its called, but it's great, and I now have an account).

Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness
doi: 10.21037/tau.2016.03.03

The article does talk about Nanadrolone (Deca ) and links to other articles. In aggregate, the articles supported the general consensus from the thread a few months ago. Nandrolone increases IGF-1 which helps joints.

There is much Bro-Sci about deca lubing joints. No Bros have articles to prove support this however. IMO, The "wet" look that deca creates is extended to the idea that it "lubes" joints. No other explanation makes sense to me other than the common way in which people whose knowledge rests on a superficial level use words of convenience to describe ideas of which they do not fully grasp the complexities, and, in most cases, generally don't need too.

All that being said, nobody need fear for the future of middle-age men because they are capable of understanding the future, dealing with their own messes and are probably to old to listen. But, here is an exception, nobody wants steroids to be blamed for poor health. It is expected that men will own their decisions regardless of the mechanism of their success or demise.

[Marsoc]

Fully understood friend,but as i mentioned,i've had serious issues with impingement,and it's very well known that deca is an excellent lubricator.
I've only been back in the gym 5 weeks,and despite training damn hard,touch wood,my joints are fine.Even if that's a placebo,i'll take it.

After you stop cycling deca the therapeutic benefits will leave. They don't last

[Obs]

After you stop cycling deca the therapeutic benefits will leave. They don't last

Without a doubt. I am fixing to go back to ibuprophen and taking thirty min to get out of bed off cycle.

[Obs]

I started lifting as a teenager. In high school I was probably 150 ish. I'm probably your dads age but I don't believe in getting older and fading away..

I am thirty. I like hearing stories like yours. You worked for it it wasnt genetics. I really like dorian Yates for that reason.

[600@50]

Sorry,but i disagree.The water retention from use of deca does give joint relief,and as far as the glucosamine and msm are concerned,
i believe them to be nothing more than placebos,particularly,as i have tried them for long enough periods,without any positivity.

Sorry but I disagree with you on these compounds. I've had shoulder issues due to heavy benching and squats for close to 30 years. I religiously take glucosamine, chondroitin and msm. Today my shoulders are pain free even consistantly benching well over 500 lbs. These compounds do not work overnight. It takes months to see results. If you took them correctly for a year you would see an improvement in your joints. They are far from being placebos. Say what you want but there are many people that swear by them.

[600@50]

Nice legs.

He gets them from all the cardio.

[Obs]

If you dont want to watch it all, fast forward to 20:47:

I watched all of that btw. Why the hell would a guy like that ever take recreational drugs?

[kelkel]

He gets them from all the cardio.

[Mr.BB]

I watched all of that btw. Why the hell would a guy like that ever take recreational drugs?

If you watched you know that he managed to stay away from it, at least it's what he says.

But about your question I would just say, why anyone would...

[Obs]

If you watched you know that he managed to stay away from it, at least it's what he says.

But about your question I would just say, why anyone would...

He stayed away from meth and cocaine but he took pain killers and even started injecting them.

[Marsoc]

He stayed away from meth and cocaine but he took pain killers and even started injecting them.

Why do u fuck tree holes..who knows. We do stupid,shit. This guy had me really wanting to only do hgh. I think I might save up and wait for that.

[DocToxin8]

I don't see the logic in using deca for joints,
Something I believe helps, but really can't prove,
but just feel there is ample enough anecdotal evidence on to believe in,
and then not use glucomsamine, chondroitin or gelatin, which is also, perhaps even more supported by evidence to help.
If you are allergic to glucosamine then only use chondroitin. If you don't use either then use gelatin. Just my thoughts on the issue.

And why the resistance to BP meds?
Beta blockers are poison that will eventually lead to diabetes type 2,
but who's talking about beta blockers for high BP? That's archaic.

ACE inhibitors or Ang2 antagonists will be sufficient for almost all BP issues related to AAS, and they are virtually side effect free.

AAS are directly coupled to upregulate Ang2 production anyways,
so I'd almost consider them like fish oil and vitamin C, lol.

To each their own though.

[DocToxin8]

I watched all of that btw. Why the hell would a guy like that ever take recreational drugs?

I just watched that entire video.
He pretty much said it: take BP meds and stay away from painkillers.

I'll say x2 to that, knowing first hand how pain killers fuck u up.
(To the degree that when I saw the video, the first thing I noticed was;
"That stare and facial movements, this guy has used serious amount of rec drugs!" I kid you not, and it's bad shit.)

(You can also see in the video, at one time when he's flexing, that he's got redness from injecting IV on one forearm.)

Kidney problems yeah. Ofcourse doing 3mls of AAS a day (unless dosed at 25mg/ml or something) isn't good. But the nr 1 reason he's kidneys shut down is untreated high BP along with high doses of acetaminophen/paracetamol IMO.

High BP is directly damaging the kidneys. Not to mention the heart.
Neglect it at your own peril.