Lifelong Cruise Stack Critique

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03-13-2017, 03:36 PM
MToption2

Lifelong Cruise Stack Critique

Age: 25
Weight: 165
Height: 5'8

Good knowledge of training and diet

Previous experiments:
Clomid only 10 months: Fail. Ballonned up to 195 lbs but high E2 and cortisol. Lowered gh output.
Aromasin only 4 months: Meh. Lab numbers looked better but no discernible subjective improvement.

Both Clomid and Aromasin resulted in greater appetite and strength gains. The former being superior at the cost of side effects.

Goal: Cruise at "low-end" supraphysiological levels of Test, IGF-1, etc for as long as health permits. Quarterly watch on bloodwork (BW). Constant monitoring of BP, BG. Frequent blood donation.
Speed up nagging broken wrist injury. Pushups (tackling/guarding) are difficult with left hand now. Correction of mild low T symptoms. This takes precedence over muscle gains. Natural T is 475. Total estrogens high reference range. Serum E2 always flagged high. But sensitive E2 is high reference range. All other hormones are good. I don't want to yo yo in and out of unsustainable cycles. Experience sides and rapid muscle growth only to deflate after pct. No thanks.

Cruise Stack:

300mg Test E EW: 30 gauge 1/2 inch
125 Monday. IM .5ml
50 Wednesday. Sub Q .2ml
125 Friday. IM .5ml
250 iu HCG (MWF)
8 iu HGH (MWF)
50mcg T4 (MWF)
25mg Proviron (Oral DHT) ED
12.5mg Aromasin ED

I have Nolvadex, Clomid, Arimidex, Caber on hand in case I need to add something or decide to PCT.

I am also on Accutane 20mg EOD and Modafinil occasionally. No other current medication but a dozen other general health supplements planned. (DIM, Longvida Curcumin, Garlic, CoQ10, Ginger, Fish Oil, Magnesium, Multivitamins, Hawthorn, Celery). My plan is to lower Accutane dosage hopefully to a calculated maintenance dosage of <5mg/day. End goal is total replacement of Accutane with topical retinoids.

Currently have full head of long hair. No family history of male pattern baldness, except 89 year old grandpa with receded hairline from my moms side. I've adopted a strict cold shower and no shampoo routine along with topical ketoconazole and minoxidil leave in to fight hair loss. Worst case scenario, FUE hair transplant, drop Proviron/lower T dosage, or embrace receding hairline.

I am already in possession of most of these. Waiting on the HGH & T4.

What do ya think? If you think it's stupid, please explain why.
03-13-2017, 03:46 PM
Mr.BB

Whats the objective of this?
03-13-2017, 03:47 PM
The Deadlifting Dog

I am getting ready to go to the gym but I think this is full blown stupid.
03-13-2017, 03:54 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Whats the objective of this?

Correction of mild low T symptoms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottishjuicer18

You are crazy bro lol

Fair enough. Sometimes crazy is good. Ronnie drank vodka along with his diuretics right before any contest show just cuz his friend convinced him it works. Yeah buddy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

I am getting ready to go to the gym but I think this is full blown stupid.

How is this any different than HRT/TRT besides dosages? If anything, my protocol is much more thought out.
03-13-2017, 04:00 PM
Scottishjuicer18

You are crazy bro lol
03-13-2017, 04:09 PM
Mr.BB

Quote:

Originally Posted by MToption2

Correction of mild low T symptoms

What are mild low T symptoms?

You want to shut down your HPTA cause of mild feelings?

TRT is supposed to be a treatment for hypogonadism. At your age if you have hypogonadism it will have a cause, many causes are fixable.

If you want to cycle steroids and HGH to grow muscles go ahead, but taking a bunch of drugs cause of some mild symptoms sounds stupid.
03-13-2017, 04:21 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

What are mild low T symptoms?

You want to shut down your HPTA cause of mild feelings?

TRT is supposed to be a treatment for hypogonadism. At your age if you have hypogonadism it will have a cause, many causes are fixable.

If you want to cycle steroids and HGH to grow muscles go ahead, but taking a bunch of drugs cause of some mild symptoms sounds stupid.

Oh, I guess the only notable symptom being sex drive. If no woman is actively trying flirt with me, I have almost no desire. This is a problem. I'm hoping my standards are significantly lowered lol.

Another big reason I forgot to mention is career advancement. I've been a manager since age 18. Whether it's a warehouse, call center, or restaurant, it's usually always a leadership position. I want that extra boost where I can tame my primate tribe better.
03-13-2017, 04:30 PM
600@50

Do you have BW showing low T levels?
03-13-2017, 04:35 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by 600@50

Do you have BW showing low T levels?

I have BW showing 477ng. Natty long time. Aromasin and Clomid boosted it. I don't have BW on Clomid but Aromasin got it to 695ng. I also didn't get DHT tested. My T levels aren't super low.
03-13-2017, 04:47 PM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by MToption2

Age: 25

Cruise Stack:

300mg Test E EW: 30 gauge 1/2 inch
125 Monday. IM .5ml
50 Wednesday. Sub Q .2ml
125 Friday. IM .5ml
250 iu HCG (MWF)
8 iu HGH (MWF)
50mcg T4 (MWF)
25mg Proviron (Oral DHT) ED
12.5mg Aromasin ED

Why those 50mg subq in the middle of the week? Nonsense. 250mg IM are already high end for TRT.

500IU weekly of HCG are plenty

Why would you need HGH at 25 already? Spare that for later lol

T4 dosed that way is utter nonsense

25mg proviron won't do anything

AI dosage looks purely arbitrary

You want to grossly overdo things imo. I'm not really into commenting your intention to start TRT at 25 but if you want to go this route start simple. No need for such a bunch of chemicals.
03-13-2017, 05:07 PM
kelkel

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Why would you need HGH at 25 already? Spare that for later lol

Exactly. Send it to me, I'm old!
03-13-2017, 05:24 PM
PT1982

I think you need to step back and think about long term for a moment. There is so much immaturity in your opening post that it honestly bothers me. First off, "low t symptoms"? Have you had any bloodwork to make sure you don't have a virus? You know, the obvious? And 300mgs of test a week for cruising is beyond ridiculous for self medicating/self diagnosing. Do you realize the problems that can arise from high T? You're 25 years old and are risking more than you realize. Do you have children? Plan to have children? Are you ready to be put on statin drugs? Possibly blood pressure meds? 2-3x a year prostate exams? You have to consider this, and so much more.
03-13-2017, 05:43 PM
MToption2

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Why those 50mg subq in the middle of the week? Nonsense. 250mg IM are already high end for TRT.

Yes, this is true. I used the 300 number under the assumption that my product isn't as potent as pharma. For example, 300mg of underground lab may end up as 250mg of actual product. But this is honestly a dumb reason. SubQ would be for sustained release. But given the half-life of Test E, this is also a nonsensical point. I am leaning towards conceding this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

500IU weekly of HCG are plenty

The extra 250 iu is an extra overreach to preserve ball function. Again, I'm willing to concede this point as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Why would you need HGH at 25 already? Spare that for later lol

T4 dosed that way is utter nonsense

The average natural gh levels in 16-25 years olds is 1.8iu. Take the 16-19 year olds out and it's noticeably lower for the 20-25. Look at this graph:
Attachment 168266
HGH tends to have a synergy in TRT patients. And by looking at this graph, age 25 puts me in the likelihood of low levels.
Why is T4 taken with HGH that way nonsense? I'm only looking to take HGH 3 days outta the week. This way works for some people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

25mg proviron won't do anything

Many people notice 25mg. Are they full of shit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

AI dosage looks purely arbitrary

12.5mg ED is a good starting point. IMO, I think it is generally overrated in it's E2 power. This site had a forum user with like 20,000+ posts on here explaining that back in 2014. If I can find it again, I'll link it.
I'm expecting the HCG to raise my E2 more than the Test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

You want to grossly overdo things imo. I'm not really into commenting your intention to start TRT at 25 but if you want to go this route start simple. No need for such a bunch of chemicals.

I understand. If I end up not liking this, I can PCT off. I mean it's just Test. It's not like I'm running Tren & 5 other anabolic/androgenic compounds.

Thanks for the initial feedback.
03-13-2017, 05:56 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by PT1982

Do you have children? Plan to have children? Are you ready to be put on statin drugs? Possibly blood pressure meds? 2-3x a year prostate exams? You have to consider this, and so much more.

I don't think you read my post mate. What do you think hcg does?
What are the prostate exams for? Test nor HGH cause cancer..
Anyways, like I said, if my BW isn't good or fixable, I will step off this train. But remember man, it's only Test and I'll be on plenty of OTC supplements like some of you guys are when blasting on Tren.

How exactly is a thought out plan immature? From your post, I think you need to research the pharmacology of hormones some more before giving people advice. But prove me wrong man, I'm all ears.
03-13-2017, 05:56 PM
Mr.BB

Quote:

Originally Posted by MToption2

Oh, I guess the only notable symptom being sex drive. If no woman is actively trying flirt with me, I have almost no desire. This is a problem. I'm hoping my standards are significantly lowered lol.

Another big reason I forgot to mention is career advancement. I've been a manager since age 18. Whether it's a warehouse, call center, or restaurant, it's usually always a leadership position. I want that extra boost where I can tame my primate tribe better.

Thats not a hypogonadism symptom. Thats whats normal. Felling horny at all time its not normal and leads to a bunch of problems.

Dont see what testosterone has to do with career advancement. Its just a hormone, not going to make you smarter or hard working. Let me add that your fellow employees or colleagues dont need to be tamed, or testosterone wont help with it.

Sorry but your reasons for this stack are stupid. Go ahead do what you want, but dont think that this type of usage will make you healthy, quite the contrary. Also wont make you happy.

And your idea that you will just stop and PCT may not be exactly as you plan.
03-13-2017, 06:03 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Thats not a hypogonadism symptom. Thats whats normal. Felling horny at all time its not normal and leads to a bunch of problems.

Dont see what testosterone has to do with career advancement. Its just a hormone, not going to make you smarter or hard working. Let me add that your fellow employees or colleagues dont need to be tamed, or testosterone wont help with it.

Sorry but your reasons for this stack are stupid. Go ahead do what you want, but dont think that this type of usage will make you healthy, quite the contrary. Also wont make you happy.

And your idea that you will just stop and PCT may not be exactly as you plan.

Fair enough. I'm aware to keep my expectations realistic. What's my potential PCT danger???? Not recovering from 250-300mg of Test?

The career enhancement line of idea came from here: https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/co...our_cognitive/
The comment about it's impact on his job as a lawyer really perked my interest.
03-13-2017, 06:09 PM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by MToption2

The average natural gh levels in 16-25 years olds is 1.8iu. Take the 16-19 year olds out and it's noticeably lower for the 20-25. Look at this graph:
Attachment 168266
HGH tends to have a synergy in TRT patients. And by looking at this graph, age 25 puts me in the likelihood of low levels.
Why is T4 taken with HGH that way nonsense? I'm only looking to take HGH 3 days outta the week. This way works for some people.

The thyroid is very smart and sensitive. It will adapt and balance out any exogenous T4 or T3 you put in, the very only way around is to introduce more than it produces. A good starting point with T4 would be 200mg daily.

Quote:

Many people notice 25mg. Are they full of shit?

Fine, I don't.

Quote:

12.5mg ED is a good starting point. IMO, I think it is generally overrated in it's E2 power. This site had a forum user with like 20,000+ posts on here explaining that back in 2014. If I can find it again, I'll link it.
I'm expecting the HCG to raise my E2 more than the Test.

HCG does indeed raise E2 but I doubt it will more than 250mg of Test. However, it depends on the individual. Same goes for AI.

Quote:

I understand. If I end up not liking this, I can PCT off. I mean it's just Test. It's not like I'm running Tren & 5 other anabolic/androgenic compounds.

There are no guarantees your HPTA will resume it's previous state. You might just end up with lower T levels than before.
03-13-2017, 06:26 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

The thyroid is very smart and sensitive. It will adapt and balance out any exogenous T4 or T3 you put in, the very only way around is to introduce more than it produces. A good starting point with T4 would be 200mg daily.

200mcgs of T4 for 24iu of HGH a week? Woah. I'll have to do more research.

Thanks again for your opinion. All your points have been taken into consideration. I'm always willing to change dosages based off others experiences or data before I start here. I understand the potential of not recovering from Test cruising. I try to live my life without regrets or hindsight lol. I think it's better that way even if the outcome is bad. Good learning experience. I don't want to go to my grave full of what ifs. I'm not a fan of excessive rumination. This extends to meditation. Long sessions usually end up with analysis paralysis.
03-13-2017, 07:24 PM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by MToption2

200mcgs of T4 for 24iu of HGH a week? Woah. I'll have to do more research.

I'm not saying I recommend it you basically go to induce iatrogenous, mild-to-moderate hyperthyroidism which might be fine on cycle if your can handle it otherwise it can compromise both physical and mental wellbeing especially when protracted over time.

Your best bet on your health is to leave your thyroid alone, unless of course pathological conditions occur.
03-13-2017, 07:29 PM
PT1982

Quote:

Originally Posted by MToption2

I don't think you read my post mate. What do you think hcg does?
What are the prostate exams for? Test nor HGH cause cancer..
Anyways, like I said, if my BW isn't good or fixable, I will step off this train. But remember man, it's only Test and I'll be on plenty of OTC supplements like some of you guys are when blasting on Tren.

How exactly is a thought out plan immature? From your post, I think you need to research the pharmacology of hormones some more before giving people advice. But prove me wrong man, I'm all ears.

Do you think hcg keeps your sperm count up? Looks like you don't know what hcg does. I can see you only want advice you want to hear, so good luck in finding it. And I stick by what I said. It was a very immature post. 300mgs of test a week for a self prescriber is asinine. Your body
03-13-2017, 09:15 PM
redz

This is just stupidity. I bet you got fake hgh anyways.
03-14-2017, 12:04 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by redz

This is just stupidity. I bet you got fake hgh anyways.

We should bet. I made almost a thousand during this years NFL playoffs. But seriously it's 98% legit gh. BW and product reviews are posted weekly and daily respectively on that particular forum. People are constantly showing elevated igf and serum gh with typical sides. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. I guess there is that 2% chance it could be some unknown freak mimicking chemical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizzarro

I'm not saying I recommend it you basically go to induce iatrogenous, mild-to-moderate hyperthyroidism which might be fine on cycle if your can handle it otherwise it can compromise both physical and mental wellbeing especially when protracted over time.

Your best bet on your health is to leave your thyroid alone, unless of course pathological conditions occur.

HGH can lower thyroid and raise prolactin in some people. But you are right. Without BW showing actual adverse changes, I don't want to be playing guess work. I will hold off on the T4 and caber.

I'm gonna lower the T to 250mg. 125 M & F.
03-14-2017, 12:22 PM
ghettoboyd

Quote:

Originally Posted by MToption2

200mcgs of T4 for 24iu of HGH a week? Woah. I'll have to do more research.

Thanks again for your opinion. All your points have been taken into consideration. I'm always willing to change dosages based off others experiences or data before I start here. I understand the potential of not recovering from Test cruising. I try to live my life without regrets or hindsight lol. I think it's better that way even if the outcome is bad. Good learning experience. I don't want to go to my grave full of what ifs. I'm not a fan of excessive rumination. This extends to meditation. Long sessions usually end up with analysis paralysis.

your in for a word of hurt later in life my friend...I didn't start aas till I was 36...im 45 now and on trt and wish to god I never touch the shit...don't be an idiot you may not notice anything right away but you will years down the road... I'm telling you man I thought trt would be no big deal, I was wrong...sure I look fantastic but I don't feel nearly as good as I did when I first started and need a pill to use my dick...how's that for perspective...think bro...
03-14-2017, 12:28 PM
boisebeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettoboyd

your in for a word of hurt later in life my friend...I didn't start aas till I was 36...im 45 now and on trt and wish to god I never touch the shit...don't be an idiot you may not notice anything right away but you will years down the road... I'm telling you man I thought trt would be no big deal, I was wrong...sure I look fantastic but I don't feel nearly as good as I did when I first started and need a pill to use my dick...how's that for perspective...think bro...

Very wise words!
03-14-2017, 12:45 PM
Sh0tsf1red

Is this real or trolling?
03-14-2017, 12:51 PM
MToption2

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettoboyd

your in for a word of hurt later in life my friend...I didn't start aas till I was 36...im 45 now and on trt and wish to god I never touch the shit...don't be an idiot you may not notice anything right away but you will years down the road... I'm telling you man I thought trt would be no big deal, I was wrong...sure I look fantastic but I don't feel nearly as good as I did when I first started and need a pill to use my dick...how's that for perspective...think bro...

How's your BW? Are you on hcg?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0tsf1red

Is this real or trolling?

Shots fired!
03-15-2017, 07:29 PM
-Nac-

Most trt protocols, if prescribed by an actual doctor, revolve around bloods, user feedback, and 100mg cyp. 100mg. 300mg is a blast dose. 250mg is a blast dose. Any weekly test administration that has you consistently supraphysiological at the trough is not a cruise dose...unless this pays your bills.

If this doesnt pay your bills, youre being a meathead.
03-15-2017, 07:47 PM
Quester

I applaud your positive attitude in the face of so much criticism and adversity. Also, your will toward self reliance and solving your own

problems. As far as the specific advice your receiving, don't let the tone make you unwilling to listen to the messages. The message seems

to be that your plan needs adjustment and may not be necessary. There are other, more beneficial, steps required before you follow this

course of action. Hypoganadism is a number (albeit your number 4-and-a -half-ish is definitely to low for what nature intends for

someone of your age) quality of life is more than just a number. So, do seek correction. But first go through the route of getting a

medical professional on-board with solving your issue. Use the perseverance you've displayed here to accomplish that step.