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Thread: 2nd Cycle Advice (Bulk) - NPP or EQ?

  1. #1
    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
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    2nd Cycle Advice (Bulk) - NPP or EQ?

    I'm looking to get some advice on how I should plan my 2nd cycle at the end of summer.

    My first cycle consisted of:

    - 500mg Test-E for 16 weeks
    - T-bol: Wks 1-4
    - Var: wks 11-16

    AIs:

    HCG : Only until week 10 (Ran out - rookie mistake)
    Adex: 0.5mg EOD

    This first cycle went very well. I'll be getting a DEXA soon to confirm the gains, but I appeared to have put around 15lbs of lean mass in 4 months. I did have a tiny flare-up with possible gyno near the end of my cycle due to having a shitty AI, but I got a new one around the 10 week mark and starting using nolva - which seemed to have taken care of that.

    Current Stats/Goals:

    Age: 31
    Wt: 201lbs
    Ht: 6'0

    I want my 2nd cycle to be a bulk for 12 weeks or so. I felt 16 was a bit overkill for me and I kind of just saw it through for the last month despite wanting to take a break from pinning and give my achy joints a rest. Ideally, this bulk would be more focused on putting more mass on my legs. I'm not sure if there's a AAS out there that is better suited for lower body gains, but if there is I'd like to know.

    This is what I was thinking for my next cycle:

    Option A:

    Test-E: 500mg (wks 1-12)
    T-bol: 50mg (wks 1-4)
    EQ: 300-400mg (wks 1-12)

    Option-B:

    Test-E/Test-Prop (wks 1-12)
    T-Bol: 50mg (wks 1-4)
    NPP: (wks 1-12)

    I know NPP is a 19-nor and requires some prolactin ancillaries like Caber, but I'm really intrigued by it. I hear EQ is a slower/cleaner gain, with less water retention. Both seem to have mild benefits to creaky joints while training - and I have a reconstructed ACL that gets achy from time to time. Any suggestions would be great - thanks!

  2. #2
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    300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.

    I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.

    Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol .
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.

    I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.

    Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol.
    Ditto.
    I don't like eq. It does nothing for me
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  4. #4
    PT1982 is offline Associate Member
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    I would choose npp over eq any and every day of the week. But as Numbere said, if test worked well the first time, don't muck it up by adding other stuff so soon. But eq, I hate it! Npp is my favorite steroid out of them all.

  5. #5
    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.
    Considered EQ for it's joint benefits and side-friendly profile. Good to know - so EQ sucks?

    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.
    At what point would I need to consider NPP? I'm sincerely curious.

    My knee ached like crazy at the end of the last cycle. Aside from the obvious side effects of NPP adding good amounts of mass, I would love to have some sort of joint relief while I'm beating my legs into the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol.
    Would tbol not be sufficient here? I ask because since I had a slight gyno "scare" at the end of a Test cycle, I'm a little hesitant to add dbol which I know is known for causing gyno.

    Drol I'm not too read up on. If I remember correctly it comes with some strong sides and a lot of water retention.

    Quote Originally Posted by tice1212 View Post
    Ditto.
    I don't like eq. It does nothing for me
    That's 2, EQ probbaly sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    I would choose npp over eq any and every day of the week. But as Numbere said, if test worked well the first time, don't muck it up by adding other stuff so soon. But eq, I hate it! Npp is my favorite steroid out of them all.
    3. EQ definitely sucks. Thanks guys!

    Please excuse my ignorance, but is there any AAS that helps promote muscle building in the most stubborn to grow areas - like for me, my legs?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    At what point would I need to consider NPP? I'm sincerely curious.
    ...
    Would tbol not be sufficient here? I ask because since I had a slight gyno "scare" at the end of a Test cycle, I'm a little hesitant to add dbol which I know is known for causing gyno.

    Drol I'm not too read up on. If I remember correctly it comes with some strong sides and a lot of water retention.
    You should consider using nandrolone when your results from test diminish.

    For what it's worth if I could do it all over again I'd only use test and orals (drol, winny) when I really wanted to kick things up a notch.

    Imo everything else leads you down a dark road very quickly.

    If you take 50mg/d of tbol for four weeks you'll be lucky to add one ounce of new muscle tissue after PCT.

    Guys have issues with dbol causing gyno because they take advice from bros who cycled in the 70s.

    If you dose your AI based on blood work then gyno should never be an issue.

    Worrying about water retention while bulking is just plain silly.

    Besides drol gives me no water retention.

    AAS induced bloat varies from person to person.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    You should consider using nandrolone when your results from test diminish.

    For what it's worth if I could do it all over again I'd only use test and orals (drol, winny) when I really wanted to kick things up a notch.

    Imo everything else leads you down a dark road very quickly.
    Noted, thank you for your help.

    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    If you take 50mg/d of tbol for four weeks you'll be lucky to add one ounce of new muscle tissue after PCT.
    So you're saying tbol doesn't do anything? I mean, I have no idea if it contributed or not, but I seem to be holding my size pretty well going into my 3rd week of PCT.

    Or maybe I didn't understand the statement...

    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Guys have issues with dbol causing gyno because they take advice from bros who cycled in the 70s.

    If you dose your AI based on blood work then gyno should never be an issue.
    Perhaps, but I had a solid AI cycle set up to prevent it this time around and I ran into some shit luck with getting my hands on a poor brand of Adex. Had that been dbol and not only Test, I probably would have gyno right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Worrying about water retention while bulking is just plain silly.
    It's not the water retention that really bothers me, it's adding a lot of size quickly and making it very obvious that I'm currently using something. I work in the industry and don't really want to make it known that I've dabbled with AAS.

    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    Besides drol gives me no water retention.

    AAS induced bloat varies from person to person.
    I figure most sides are case to case. Do you prefer Drol or Dbol? I just read up on Drol and it sounds like you can gain a massive amount of weight quickly, and it's probably the most liver toxic. I can combat the liver issues with some NAC and Liv-52, but I want something that isn't too drastic, and the gains are keepable. I hear Dbol and Drol both rate poorly in the "Ability to keep gains" category. Truth?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeehead View Post
    So you're saying tbol doesn't do anything?
    ...
    Perhaps, but I had a solid AI cycle set up to prevent it this time around and I ran into some shit luck with getting my hands on a poor brand of Adex. Had that been dbol and not only Test, I probably would have gyno right now.

    It's not the water retention that really bothers me, it's adding a lot of size quickly and making it very obvious that I'm currently using something. I work in the industry and don't really want to make it known that I've dabbled with AAS.

    I figure most sides are case to case. Do you prefer Drol or Dbol? I just read up on Drol and it sounds like you can gain a massive amount of weight quickly, and it's probably the most liver toxic. I can combat the liver issues with some NAC and Liv-52, but I want something that isn't too drastic, and the gains are keepable. I hear Dbol and Drol both rate poorly in the "Ability to keep gains" category. Truth?
    Again, if you dose your AI based on blood work then e2 induced gyno should never be an issue.

    I'm saying the 50mg/d of tbol for four weeks will add close to no new muscle tissue.

    Tbol was designed to be used for long periods as performance enhancer without users raising flags about blood doping.

    Try them both and see what works best for you, imo drol > dbol.

    The thing with drol/dbol is that you put on a good amount of weight quickly.

    This means a majority of that new mass is increased glycogen and nitrogen retention.

    They are fun drugs that lift your workouts to new levels and help you push past plateaus.

    The bottom line is if you want to use an oral for four weeks during a bulk you'll get more from drol/dbol than you will tbol.
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  9. #9
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    I'm also looking to get some advice on my 2nd cycle that should start in 2.5 months:

    My first cycle consisted of the following and I had very good results and no side effects:

    - 500mg Test-E for 8 weeks
    - 500 mg of Deca for 7 weeks
    - PCT: Chlomid for 3 weeks

    My current stats are:
    Age: 29
    Wt: 200lbs (90kg)
    Ht:6' (183cm)
    I am training actively for about 2 years

    I want 2nd cycle to be a bulk for 14 weeks and plan on using the following:

    Test-E: 750mg (wks 1-14)
    Deca: 500mg (wks 1-13)
    Dbol : 30mg (wks 1-4)
    PCT: Nolvadex and Chlomid combined for 4-5 weeks

    I have the following questions:
    1) Do I need an aromatise inhibitor for this plan during the cycle? If yes, which one (Adex, Anastrazol..) and which quantity?
    2) Is 750mg of test to 500mg of deca a good ratio?
    3) Do I also need HCG at the end of this cycle?
    4) Is it OK if I inject test and deca only once per week or it has to be once every 4-5 days? I will be travelling relatively often during these 14 weeks, so I want to avoid bringing test etc. in the plane. Hence, the lower the frequency of injection the better for me

    Any suggestions would be great - thanks!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by maremm87 View Post
    I have the following questions:
    1) Do I need an aromatise inhibitor for this plan during the cycle? If yes, which one (Adex, Anastrazol..) and which quantity?
    2) Is 750mg of test to 500mg of deca a good ratio?
    3) Do I also need HCG at the end of this cycle?
    4) Is it OK if I inject test and deca only once per week or it has to be once every 4-5 days? I will be travelling relatively often during these 14 weeks, so I want to avoid bringing test etc. in the plane. Hence, the lower the frequency of injection the better for me

    Any suggestions would be great - thanks!
    Your cycle could use a lot of improvements.

    You should create your own thread.

    This thread belongs to someone else and it's rude to hijack someone else's thread.

  11. #11
    maremm87 is offline New Member
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    Ok, thanks for the fast reply. I had technical issues starting a new thread, that's why I posted it here. I have now managed to start a new thread and have posted my question there

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by maremm87 View Post
    I'm also looking to get some advice on my 2nd cycle that should start in 2.5 months:

    My first cycle consisted of the following and I had very good results and no side effects:

    - 500mg Test-E for 8 weeks
    - 500 mg of Deca for 7 weeks
    - PCT: Chlomid for 3 weeks

    My current stats are:
    Age: 29
    Wt: 200lbs (90kg)
    Ht:6' (183cm)
    I am training actively for about 2 years

    I want 2nd cycle to be a bulk for 14 weeks and plan on using the following:

    Test-E: 750mg (wks 1-14)
    Deca: 500mg (wks 1-13)
    Dbol : 30mg (wks 1-4)
    PCT: Nolvadex and Chlomid combined for 4-5 weeks

    I have the following questions:
    1) Do I need an aromatise inhibitor for this plan during the cycle? If yes, which one (Adex, Anastrazol..) and which quantity?
    2) Is 750mg of test to 500mg of deca a good ratio?
    3) Do I also need HCG at the end of this cycle?
    4) Is it OK if I inject test and deca only once per week or it has to be once every 4-5 days? I will be travelling relatively often during these 14 weeks, so I want to avoid bringing test etc. in the plane. Hence, the lower the frequency of injection the better for me

    Any suggestions would be great - thanks!
    You were already told wat you should do but I can see you don't like advice unless it's wat you want to hear.
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  13. #13
    Coffeehead is offline Associate Member
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    What a tease - for a moment I thought I got a bunch of new replies with good advice.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    300-400mg of eq is not enough and on top of that EQ is a poor mass builder for men.

    I don't see the need to use nandrolone in your second cycle given your stats.

    Imo run a test cycle again but this time add in a real bulking oral such as drol or dbol.
    Heavy androgenic orals should be ok but not nandrolone cause of stats. Thats a new one.

    Go for test and deca . Deca 10 weeks. Good for your joints.
    Kickstart if u want. Tbol/lgd should do.

    Stay away from androgenic orals. We dont need them at our levels. Just messing up your organs and water and ugly face/physic all day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Heavy androgenic orals should be ok but not nandrolone cause of stats. Thats a new one.

    Go for test and deca . Deca 10 weeks. Good for your joints.
    Kickstart if u want. Tbol/lgd should do.

    Stay away from androgenic orals. We dont need them at our levels. Just messing up your organs and water and ugly face/physic all day.
    OP is 6' 200lb and has only cycled once previously.

    He doesn't need a 19 nor in order to grow.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post

    OP is 6' 200lb and has only cycled once previously.

    He doesn't need a 19 nor in order to grow.
    But anadrol would cut it?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    But anadrol would cut it?
    Why do you always have to start shit?

    If you disagree with someone then state your opinion like an adult and let the people reading this thread decided who's correct.

    I'm tired of you initiating needless drama, by starting a confrontation, just because your real life is boring at the moment.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post

    Why do you always have to start shit?

    If you disagree with someone then state your opinion like an adult and let the people reading this thread decided who's correct.

    I'm tired of you initiating needless drama, by starting a confrontation, just because your real life is boring at the moment.
    Now this is special. Others, did i start shit. Or is numbere thinskinned?.... just wanna read u guys

  19. #19
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    ^^^Geez not this crap again...

    ---

    You have previous threads about new cycle, so not going there. Did you manage to control the BP? When are you doing end cycle bloodwork?
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    sil in every thread you start shit by disagreeing with anyone here on staff because you think you are above us all and think you know better... most know your advise is questionable but not the newbies....in another thread you advised not to take anything number,BB,BG and BIB say seriously...get over yourself man...do you really think what you said to GGR is what got you suspended?...that was just the tipping point for you its was you countless posts disrespecting staff here that was and still is the problem...F.Y.I...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    ^^^Geez not this crap again...

    ---

    You have previous threads about new cycle, so not going there. Did you manage to control the BP? When are you doing end cycle bloodwork?
    Do not run from it. As a monitor u have to take part. U cant be everybodies friend always. I just wanna learn. Fit in. Was i too rude on numbere or was it within the acceptable. Border high but in range?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettoboyd View Post
    sil in every thread you start shit by disagreeing with anyone here on staff because you think you are above us all and think you know better... most know your advise is questionable but not the newbies....in another thread you advised not to take anything number,BB,BG and BIB say seriously...get over yourself man...do you really think what you said to GGR is what got you suspended?...that was just the tipping point for you its was you countless posts disrespecting staff here that was and still is the problem...F.Y.I...
    Common man. That thread is humor. Pure ironi and sarcasm. All day.

    Tipping point?..so how come did inot get one single pm warning then saying i need to change??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Common man. That thread is humor. Pure ironi and sarcasm. All day.

    Tipping point?..so how come did inot get one single pm warning then saying i need to change??
    I find it hard to believe you didn't get a warning you have told BG and other staff to fuck off countless times...maybe if you think what you are saying is funny then follow it with an lol or j/k... I want to like you sill but you make it very hard sometimes because you purposely disrespect the staff here every chance you get...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettoboyd View Post
    I find it hard to believe you didn't get a warning you have told BG and other staff to fuck off countless times...maybe if you think what you are saying is funny then follow it with an lol or j/k... I want to like you sill but you make it very hard sometimes because you purposely disrespect the staff here every chance you get...
    If the staff seriously interpretend i disrespect them and tell them to fuk off with nonhumor intention, why didnt i get a warning?. No, i did not get a warning on pm. Ofcourse they told me to shut up or else, a million times in the threads but that was just rolling along.

    No man, it was the GGRthing. Fair enough.

    Dont remember I asked them to fuck off or something like that. But called them skinny with narrow shoulders and smal bis and big failure workouts...yes indeed...but..hello??
    Last edited by Silabolin; 03-22-2017 at 06:29 AM.

  25. #25
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    I guess I just don't get you brand of humor...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettoboyd View Post
    I guess I just don't get you brand of humor...
    BG does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettoboyd View Post
    sil in every thread you start shit by disagreeing with anyone here on staff because you think you are above us all and think you know better... most know your advise is questionable but not the newbies....in another thread you advised not to take anything number,BB,BG and BIB say seriously...get over yourself man...do you really think what you said to GGR is what got you suspended?...that was just the tipping point for you its was you countless posts disrespecting staff here that was and still is the problem...F.Y.I...
    Well said,Ghettoboyd!

    Also, like all the others who've stated I agree EQ is far less effective building muscle it'll harden you up but it takes so long and the longer duration the harder it is to recover -

    Go with NPP - it was my first compound I used with prop and grew like a weed - diet and training must be on point but NPP Is I great compound one of my favorites for mass - id also run prop with it a spin rod or ed(if you can rotate enough sites) if not eod is fine - you'll be in and out in 8wks imo... start pct early and reprime that body
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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Well said,Ghettoboyd!

    Also, like all the others who've stated I agree EQ is far less effective building muscle it'll harden you up but it takes so long and the longer duration the harder it is to recover -

    Go with NPP - it was my first compound I used with prop and grew like a weed - diet and training must be on point but NPP Is I great compound one of my favorites for mass - id also run prop with it a spin rod or ed(if you can rotate enough sites) if not eod is fine - you'll be in and out in 8wks imo... start pct early and reprime that body
    Yeah...that was my point towards numbere. For gods sake drop androgenic orals and do nadrolone. Stil....im getting fire cause im not letting numbere get away with his bad advice. Go figure. Mafia.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Yeah...that was my point towards numbere. For gods sake drop androgenic orals and do nadrolone. Stil....im getting fire cause im not letting numbere get away with his bad advice. Go figure. Mafia.
    This is exactly what I mean by starting shit.

    All that's needed to make your point is the first two sentences of your last post.

    You only added the last few lines in an attempt to irritate.

    Grow the fuck up Silabolin.
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    not to irritate...but to...heat things up a tiny bit. Ur rigth those two last lines are not necessary, but..man..who are we?...but u told me 20 times this is not why u are here. Hm, well...i should respect that. But..hm..ok...i think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Yeah...that was my point towards numbere. For gods sake drop androgenic orals and do nadrolone. Stil....im getting fire cause im not letting numbere get away with his bad advice. Go figure. Mafia.
    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post
    This is exactly what I mean by starting shit.

    All that's needed to make your point is the first two sentences of your last post.

    You only added the last few lines in an attempt to irritate.

    Grow the fuck up Silabolin.
    Im in agreement with Numbere as always! Hes a moderator that puts his time and effort in every post - and it shows(if you know what he's talking about) but I think you miss his points in many and various ways and 10/outta 10 times I'd take his advice! Just sayin

    Now let's get back on track or take it to pm!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Im in agreement with Numbere as always! Hes a moderator that puts his time and effort in every post - and it shows(if you know what he's talking about) but I think you miss his points in many and various ways and 10/outta 10 times I'd take his advice! Just sayin

    Now let's get back on track or take it to pm!
    so threadstarter should do drol with his test then?

  33. #33
    Mr.BB's Avatar
    Mr.BB is online now MONITOR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Do not run from it. As a monitor u have to take part. U cant be everybodies friend always. I just wanna learn. Fit in. Was i too rude on numbere or was it within the acceptable. Border high but in range?
    Whats rude its that we discussed all this topics countless times, provided evidence and you still dont learn... The next thread about it you come again with the old ideas like nothing happened.

    Do not run from it? lol, Say what you want im tired of this shit. Ignore mode on.

  34. #34
    PT1982 is offline Associate Member
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    This has turned into a Jason Blaha thread.

  35. #35
    Silabolin's Avatar
    Silabolin is online now Rude at this time... Sorry!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post

    Do not run from it? lol, Say what you want im tired of this shit. Ignore mode on.
    That attitude doesnt go very well with your monitor standing. Perhaps others should release you from your burdons. I voluntaire. No prob. Any time bro.

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