First cycle at 21

[Puddleofsquirt]

Hey guys I'm 21 6'1 160 pounds. I am thinking about going on a cycle of 250mg of test cyp and Winstrol for 8 weeks. I've been working out for about 3 years and made good gains in strength but not huge improvement in the physical appearance. I'm that kid who can eat 5000 calories a day and then I just shit it all out. Literally after every meal about 5-10 mins later I'm on the toilet taking a dook. My diet is very good. I don't eat fast food other than the occasional burger. And every day I have meals that consist of chicken shrimp steak or a homemade burger. Veggies and fruit are a daily thing and so is brown rice. The amount of food I eat is almost staggering. And at least once a week I eat so much I feel like killing myself. So here we are. I know the risks and I know the benefits. Been researching this all for about a month and I'm really considering the test and Winstrol. I have a PCT set up and a aromasin just in case my tits start to itch. I'm not here for you guys to tell me how terrible it a idea this is. I get it. My balls might shut down. My dick might not get hard and I'll stop growing. I get it. It's a rather slim risk in reality and I'm not a total fuckin fool who's just going to shoot up all this shit without research and consideration all the benefits and none benefits. So I just want you guys to tell me how I can have the best cycle of all and reduce any risks of getting gyno or fuckin up my endocrine system. Again I know the risk so I don't want to get lectured. Just let me know what to expect and all that and how to reduce the risks. Thanks guys.

[numbere]

You can expect to gain about 20lb then lose everything you gained on cycle by 2-3 months after PCT because you don't know how to eat.

Doing a cycle now would be a waste of your money and health.

Do yourself a huge favor and get to at least 190lb before using AS.

No offense but the stuff about you pooping out your calories is silly and shows your naivete.

Please post up your average diet for one day.

[Puddleofsquirt]

In the morning I eat 5 egg white which 2 of them are whole eggs. 5 strips of bacon and two slices of whole grain toast with peanut butter. After the work out I drink my weight gainer mixed with creatine, about 30 minutes after that I usually eat tuna salad with 3 hard boiled eggs mixed into the...mix. Make a sandwich with the tuna. After that I usually eat either a blackened chicken salad with avacado peppers onions mescaline and a little olive oil or a bacon cheese burger with avacado onion and a side of frys. Not a fast food burger a real burger. For dinner I eat any combo of steak shrimp fish or chicken. With either mashed potatoes or brown rice with either spinach kale or asparagus. And theought out the day I usually eat nuts and berries. With an occasional bag of chips. Maybe twice a week. I also go through jars of peanut butter like water. I'm telling you dude. I even drink shakes twice a day and they rack up 1500 calories when mixed with almonds banana and peanut butter. No bullshit. At one point I was 170 but that didn't last very long. Trust me I know how to eat. I eat like a madman and I know what I should and shouldn't eat. I eat fish chicken shrimp beef. Brown rice chicken and spinach mixed with almonds and cranberries is my go too. Eat that twice a day.

[numbere]

You have a diet full of quality calories which is great but you're not eating enough to grow.

I'd roughly estimate your average daily caloric intake to be 2,600-2,900 calories.

One of the ways experienced lifters can gain and loose weight so easily is because they know exactly how much they're eating because they measure everything.

The example diet below is from member Livinlean's recent cut.

Where to add carbs? Variation of the prime

This is my current diet

Meal 1 (pre workout)
1 cup egg whites
1 scoop protein
1/2 cup oats
1/2 tbsp mct

Meal 2 (Post workout)
1 cup egg whites
2 scoop isolate protein
1/2 cup oats

Meal 3
3oz bison
3oz chicken
1/2 cup rice
1/4 cup black beans

Meal 4
3oz bison
3oz chicken

Meal 5
3oz bison
3oz chicken
1/2 cup rice

Meal 6
1 cup egg whites
1 scoop protein
1/2 cup oats

2434 calories, 140 carbs, 61 fat, 315 protein

[tempest818]

The risks are slim in reality? How the hell would you know dude? They're actually not and it takes one slip up to crash and burn and even if u don't slip up you still very well might go back to a test level that's lower than what u started with.

So anyways,

250 a week is like half of what you should do and you shouldn't Touch anything but test for your first cycle. Read the stickies . I'm 23 and the guys here have put me off from cycling and convinced me that it's better to have a hard dick to bang my girl with than big arms.

It's not like taking a banned preworkout that has a slim chance of givin you heart problems or something...

The chances r really big here man lol

[PT1982]

At your height and weight, you have to learn to eat. I promise you will do more harm than good. I don't mind advising younger guys if they're ready, but you aren't quite there yet. You need to be 180 natty at your height and be able to maintain that weight with diet. Once you achieve this, then consider because once yippy add mass through anabolics, you're going to have to readjust your caloric intake to support your new weight once again.

[Puddleofsquirt]

I mean there are risks in everyday things that we do. Everytime we bench we run the risk of the bar slipping and smashing right into our throats. Is it likely? If you're smart it's pretty slim, but doesn't mean it can't happen. I'm just looking around for answers, I feel like 250 mg Winstrol a good diet and upping the hours at the gym I could gain 20-25 pounds and keep 15-20 of that. Plus I have a good PCT set up and some aromasin just in case my tits start to itch. Again if you aren't a total fool. I believe the risks are below average.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

What you aren't realizing is that your diet is the issue.
outside of water weight....
steroids don't put on weight without food.
You NEED to eat more to grow.

[numbere]

I mean there are risks in everyday things that we do. Everytime we bench we run the risk of the bar slipping and smashing right into our throats. Is it likely? If you're smart it's pretty slim, but doesn't mean it can't happen. I'm just looking around for answers, I feel like 250 mg Winstrol a good diet and upping the hours at the gym I could gain 20-25 pounds and keep 15-20 of that. Plus I have a good PCT set up and some aromasin just in case my tits start to itch. Again if you aren't a total fool. I believe the risks are below average.

If you can't maintain 175-180 now then why do you believe that you'll be able to maintain that weight post cycle?

[PistolPete33]

I mean there are risks in everyday things that we do. Everytime we bench we run the risk of the bar slipping and smashing right into our throats. Is it likely? If you're smart it's pretty slim, but doesn't mean it can't happen. I'm just looking around for answers, I feel like 250 mg Winstrol a good diet and upping the hours at the gym I could gain 20-25 pounds and keep 15-20 of that. Plus I have a good PCT set up and some aromasin just in case my tits start to itch. Again if you aren't a total fool. I believe the risks are below average.

I did my first cycle at 33 years old. I was at my genetic max of 185lbs at 5'6". I was at that weight for 5-6 years and no matter what couldn't grow. I decided to do my first and "only" cycle at that time. Did I gain weight???? Yep, did I have issues? You bet. I did EVERYTHING by the book and about a year or two later was feeling like total crap. I ended up crashing my test levels because my body never recovered from the cycle. I'm now on TRT for THE REST OF MY LIFE injecting twice per week and HCG 2-3 more times per week.

Sounds like a cool life-style until you have to travel, forget to take a shot always buying things, getting blood-work all the time, trying to keep hormones in balance. Like many said esp. at your size and age the risks are not worth the rewards.

[songdog]

Read the young and steroids thread then hit the diet section and get your diet under control and learn how to put on weight and keep it.Beacuse if you cycle now you will lose everything you gain if you gain anything.So it's up to you bro.

[Puddleofsquirt]

So what if I start the cycle and throw my calories up by 800-1000? Because I know I can eat that easily. Around 3500-4000 of quality calories proteins carbs and fats a day? The question is if I do that and cycle work out hard I should be able to keep all my gains and maybe even gain more than 20 lbs correct? You know it's not like I'm small, I just have very little fat, I'm not talkin like 2% fuckin paper thin skin. Around 10-12% the rest is muscle and bone. And I could really use an extra 20 pounds of muscle in my life.

[MuscleScience]

8 weeks is too short in my opinion. 12-15 weeks is the min I think. No point in shutting your natural hormones down for that short of time and the possible risks associated with that, at least with 12 weeks you will make enough gains to justify the potential side effects.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

No way in hell are you going to gain 20lbs of muscle in 8 weeks.
You will not gain more than a pound of muscle in a week IMO.

First thing: up your calories.
No need for steroids yet.

[Richard Cabeza]

So what if I start the cycle and throw my calories up by 800-1000? Because I know I can eat that easily. Around 3500-4000 of quality calories proteins carbs and fats a day? The question is if I do that and cycle work out hard I should be able to keep all my gains and maybe even gain more than 20 lbs correct? You know it's not like I'm small, I just have very little fat, I'm not talkin like 2% fuckin paper thin skin. Around 10-12% the rest is muscle and bone. And I could really use an extra 20 pounds of muscle in my life.

Or you can just do that and not cycle.... probably should just listen to what people are telling you and stop being so anxious to fuck yourself up, the reality is youre not ready to juice. Pushing a needle in your ass isnt the answer to your problems, you need to learn how to grow naturally, if you cant master the basics naturally how the fuck are you going to maintain and build on a cycle thats going to throw your body completely out of whack? To grow on steroids you have to eat and eat and eat, yeah you say you eat a lot now but its obviously not enough, if you have a high metabolism then you should be eating more, fuck staying cut at this point it should be all about adding mass and that will help increase stregnth which will aid in building muscle which will be more mass, then you cut and repeat, if you arent doing this naturally then theres no way in hell your going to run a successful cycle and thats just the reality of it, seriously start eating 4-5000 quality cals a day and add some mass because thats what youd have to do on steroids anyway, if youve been working out for 3 years and havent added any kind of real lean muscle mass then that should tell you loads about how you eat and lift, its not the right way, steroids wont correct this

[songdog]

So what if I start the cycle and throw my calories up by 800-1000? Because I know I can eat that easily. Around 3500-4000 of quality calories proteins carbs and fats a day? The question is if I do that and cycle work out hard I should be able to keep all my gains and maybe even gain more than 20 lbs correct? You know it's not like I'm small, I just have very little fat, I'm not talkin like 2% fuckin paper thin skin. Around 10-12% the rest is muscle and bone. And I could really use an extra 20 pounds of muscle in my life.

Well you said you can't gain weight and I told you to hit the diet section.But it appears you like shortcuts so all I can say is good luck.And remember this you only have one 1st cycle where you grow like a weed.Funny we had a kid on here not too long ago doing the same thing he quit posting pics I guess things went south for him.Good luck!

[Richard Cabeza]

So what if I start the cycle and throw my calories up by 800-1000? Because I know I can eat that easily. Around 3500-4000 of quality calories proteins carbs and fats a day? The question is if I do that and cycle work out hard I should be able to keep all my gains and maybe even gain more than 20 lbs correct? You know it's not like I'm small, I just have very little fat, I'm not talkin like 2% fuckin paper thin skin. Around 10-12% the rest is muscle and bone. And I could really use an extra 20 pounds of muscle in my life.

And at 6'1 160 yes you are small bro, thats tiny. Im not trying to be mean but just being realistic, at around 12% bodyfat then im assuming youre skinny fat, you need to eat eat eat eat and not worry about adding a little extra fat, get the mass right now, you can always cut later if you want to "lean bulk" its going to take time, like seriously 6+ months of meticulous eating and workout plans to increase muscle

[ScotchGuard02]

***Cycles going wrong for the young***

[songdog]

if getting big was just taking a few shots everyone would be big.Some things in this life can't be bought and muscle is on top of that list.

[tempest818]

I know man and believe me when I say I am reckless and live by the idea that "fuck it, everything has risks and I can die tomorrow"...it's just that this isn't one of those things...the negative effects aren't "MAYBE" going to come on....they do so immediately...

Once the gear kicks in, it all changes dude. At our age, that is. The older guys here already have low test (for the most part) so they can give a fuck less if their cycle drops their natural test below what it was before because it was low already and theyre going to cycle again. Most of these guys are on TRT actually. In terms of their Test levels and other hormonal levels, they really have nowhere else to go but UP...

For us, we have a good few years until our test levels peak and then drop. So you introduce these compounds while you're peakin brah, and your levels drop below what they were after, and you're GG.

The point is that it's not something that you can control. That's the fucked up part. You can do everything right and still get shafted. Thats why I say that you cant compare it to other things in life where you say theres always a chance of something going wrong. You can hold the bar the right way so it doesnt crush your neck while you bench. You cant hold this!


Plus, 250mg winstrol ? What do u think Winstrol is gonna do? Where's the Test? R u planning on doing some bs oral only cycle man cause that shit fucks u up harder than the injectable ones do. That's why people only run them for like 4 weeks alongside their cycles. Plus winstrol is tough on u compared to Test.

[Puddleofsquirt]

I'm certainly not skinny fat. My max bench is 225 (nothing to be proud of) and I can use 40 lb dumbells easily also pull ups and push ups are a daily thing. Can rep out 60 push-ups and 20 pull-ups in a set. I'm certainly not skinny fat. But okay I will take your guys advice and try to gain another 10-15 pounds naturally before I attempt test.

[Puddleofsquirt]

A lot of people start at this age because this is "when the gains are huge" I'm not that guy, I'm not trying to go pro. I just want that extra push to gain 15-20 pounds of solid muscle. And no no. 250 mg test cyp for 8 weeks then 25 mg Winstrol for 4 weeks then 50 mg Winstrol for the last 4. But it seems like you guys are adamantly against me doing this so I'm probably going to give it a couple years before I start a cycle. Try and gain the natural way.

[PT1982]

If you can't maintain 175-180 now then why do you believe that you'll be able to maintain that weight post cycle?

This is what we're trying to tell you. All of us have told you what numbere plainly said. You say you think you can gain 20-25lbs with a cycle and feel you could keep 15-20lbs of that. Don't you see where were coming from? Your 160lbs now, so you eat like a 160lb man. If you continue to eat like you currently are, you can gain 75lbs on a cycle, but end up back at 160lbs because you eat to be 160. You've got to learn to diet before you cycle. Walk before you can run. If you do go up to 185lbs in cycle, do you believe that you will eat like a 185 pound man would to maintain the size? I don't, nor anyone else. That's why it's imperative for you to listen to us that know this lifestyle as if it's second nature. We're only trying to help and tell you what we would do because we truly know what we're saying.

[PT1982]

A lot of people start at this age because this is "when the gains are huge" I'm not that guy, I'm not trying to go pro. I just want that extra push to gain 15-20 pounds of solid muscle. And no no. 250 mg test cyp for 8 weeks then 25 mg Winstrol for 4 weeks then 50 mg Winstrol for the last 4. But it seems like you guys are adamantly against me doing this so I'm probably going to give it a couple years before I start a cycle. Try and gain the natural way.

Great attitude! Bravo sir.

[MuscleScience]

I'm certainly not skinny fat. My max bench is 225 (nothing to be proud of) and I can use 40 lb dumbells easily also pull ups and push ups are a daily thing. Can rep out 60 push-ups and 20 pull-ups in a set. I'm certainly not skinny fat. But okay I will take your guys advice and try to gain another 10-15 pounds naturally before I attempt test.

Do you know what your TDEE is? I would say figure that up, then add 30% to that number and that will give you a good start on how many calories to add to gain weight. Recalculate every 5-10lbs of wieght you put on so that your constantly getting enough calories to build.

[Puddleofsquirt]

You guys are totally right. It's disheartening because i was pretty excited to start a cycle and reap the rewards, but after listening to you guys and thinking about it for a couple hours I don't think it's worth it at the moment. So I'm deciding to call of the cycle before it even starts. I read some forums with young guys who done fucked up their shit and want to kill them selves because the cycle got botched and I don't want to add to that group or become one of them. I'll attempt to add another 1000 calories and train harder to get bigger. Thank you all for the great advice. Now I can only hope to gain 10-20 pounds in the next year or two. And maybe I'll be back on this forum talking about a cycle when I'm ready.

[MuscleScience]

You guys are totally right. It's disheartening because i was pretty excited to start a cycle and reap the rewards, but after listening to you guys and thinking about it for a couple hours I don't think it's worth it at the moment. So I'm deciding to call of the cycle before it even starts. I read some forums with young guys who done fucked up their shit and want to kill them selves because the cycle got botched and I don't want to add to that group or become one of them. I'll attempt to add another 1000 calories and train harder to get bigger. Thank you all for the great advice. Now I can only hope to gain 10-20 pounds in the next year or two. And maybe I'll be back on this forum talking about a cycle when I'm ready.

Stick around and learn, we actually rarely talk about anabolics when compared to diet, training and such. Anabolics are an inescapable part of BodyBuilding in that it's a tool that some use no different than supplements and so on. Even so, it's actually a very small piece of the overall puzzle. They certainly do help, but only if the big three are in order first (Nutrition, Training, Rest)

[Puddleofsquirt]

Yea I've known sleep good food and intense training are what make you better and stronger. Not roids. I will have to go and reavaluate my diet.

[tempest818]

YYYESSS. Haha. And just to add, 250 mg Cyp is even too little you'd need 500. But I agree with the guys too that even if you ran the perfect cycle and rebounded perfectly no problemo, you jump up to 185 lbs....if u can't eat like your 185 lbs your gonna lose it all anyways man. I'm here trying to lose weight and you need to gain it and don't wanna eat? Fucking pound that shit down man. eat until you hate yourself.

[numbere]

Yea I've known sleep good food and intense training are what make you better and stronger. Not roids. I will have to go and reavaluate my diet.

If you open a thread in the diet and nutrition forum with your stats, goals and current diet I'll help you get started in the right direction.

[Puddleofsquirt]

Thank you bro I'm going to go do that right now

[PT1982]

You guys are totally right. It's disheartening because i was pretty excited to start a cycle and reap the rewards, but after listening to you guys and thinking about it for a couple hours I don't think it's worth it at the moment. So I'm deciding to call of the cycle before it even starts. I read some forums with young guys who done fucked up their shit and want to kill them selves because the cycle got botched and I don't want to add to that group or become one of them. I'll attempt to add another 1000 calories and train harder to get bigger. Thank you all for the great advice. Now I can only hope to gain 10-20 pounds in the next year or two. And maybe I'll be back on this forum talking about a cycle when I'm ready.

I promise that any of us that have been doing this for years will tell you the same on this. I guarantee that any of us would choose diet over anabolics if given the choice. And when I'm on blast, I would rather miss a workout than a meal. Diet really is that important. If you can't add weight without steroids , you will rapidly lose any gain made. Once you can eat at a caloric surplus, you will add weight very fast. I would happily advise you if I knew you were ready, but you're not quite there yet. At your size now, if you train low rep/ heavy weight and eat the calories of someone 185lbs, you can get there easily in 12 months if you're willing to work your burt off. Do that and we'll all be willing to help with the steroid part. That's after all the easy part. Good luck to you!

[kelkel]

Great advice guys! Glad you decided to listen. Patience, desire and nutrition will get you where you need to be.

[Jphunter]

In the morning I eat 5 egg white which 2 of them are whole eggs. 5 strips of bacon and two slices of whole grain toast with peanut butter. After the work out I drink my weight gainer mixed with creatine, about 30 minutes after that I usually eat tuna salad with 3 hard boiled eggs mixed into the...mix. Make a sandwich with the tuna. After that I usually eat either a blackened chicken salad with avacado peppers onions mescaline and a little olive oil or a bacon cheese burger with avacado onion and a side of frys. Not a fast food burger a real burger. For dinner I eat any combo of steak shrimp fish or chicken. With either mashed potatoes or brown rice with either spinach kale or asparagus. And theought out the day I usually eat nuts and berries. With an occasional bag of chips. Maybe twice a week. I also go through jars of peanut butter like water. I'm telling you dude. I even drink shakes twice a day and they rack up 1500 calories when mixed with almonds banana and peanut butter. No bullshit. At one point I was 170 but that didn't last very long. Trust me I know how to eat. I eat like a madman and I know what I should and shouldn't eat. I eat fish chicken shrimp beef. Brown rice chicken and spinach mixed with almonds and cranberries is my go too. Eat that twice a day.

Not even close to taking in enough calories brother . You can gain weight and strength faster then you think just by doubling your calories thru " Whole Foods " . Weight gainers are marketed as a quick fix . Nothing beats Whole Foods . Get your diet in check brother , set a goal for 30 days and see if you can at least take in 6,000 calories a day ( which is still the low end of calories needed to build the kind of mass you want with or without AAS . IMO ) eat big to get big !

[RichardG]

My first cycle I was 29. I took Test Cyp only. 200mg every 4 days for 12 weeks. I gained 20lbs. Took Nolvadex post cycle and kept all my gains. Had no gyno nothing fancy. Kept most of my strength and all my size. Sometimes it's better to keep it simple.