High Blood Pressure

[MuscleScience]

So duh, was concerned about some borderline readings I got from my home BP machine, took chance to check BP at pharmacy with one of those fancy machines, and this is what I got:



Just how bad is this?


Normally I land at 110-115 / 75-70.

I don't recall systolic to have been that high since I was borderline obese with a bf of 35% or more, than was some years ago actually, diastolic was 100+ at the time also, however I gained some serious fat back lately because of poor diet, I believe bf to be 22-25% right now.

In low T times too it used to get as high as 155/90, because of stress/anxiety, I'm experiencing some inner tension atm and that surely counts as a factor,

gear I'm taking high-end TRT of 250 of TE with .5 weekly of AI, that put my levels at 1100 ng/dl, I don't feel my E2 being high, perhaps it could be too low even, but I do plan to reduce dose until no AI is needed, I don't feel healthy nor good this way.

I'm on low dose ARB but it just seems to drive HR up in order to keep BP, getting also some migraines lately, maybe they are related maybe not.

Pulled CBC counts, expecting results tomorrow, might need to donate.

You doing cardio at all?

[hammerheart]

You doing cardio at all?

Not at the moment, my activity levels severely decreased starting two months ago, when I forced to add AI, was both dieting and doing cardio before that point (losing weight as well), every time I do that I experience an abrupt decrease in functioning, but I believe it's mostly from increased T/DHT than E2 suppression, I enter that negative mindset where I don't bother if I'm hindering my own health, getting fatter, etc.

One of the many reason why I hate Test.


Must also say all of my clothes got tight, especially in the thigh and midsection, I wonder this can skew BP readings because of the compression?

I need to buy new clothes, duh.

[hammerheart]

Telmisartan is an ARB, rather new one, think not even approved in US. If you dont like it try another one, losartan, candesartan, irbesartan... Increase dosage till bp is normal 120/80.

Don't worry about pulse, its not tachycardia. If you are worried about it go do an ECG. If you want to lower your pulse start doing cardio, and stop listening to norwegians (well, some of them).

Going to pharmacy to measured BP is not the best way, measure it at home when you wake up and before dinner. Always measure it twice, spaced a few minutes.

A good bp monitor doesn't cost more than 30€, and the cuffs come in sizes, please dont buy the small size and expect it to fit.

Of course, I have to say that supraphysiological levels of testosterone can put your body into stress, specially if its not temporary like in a cycle. Maybe if you reduce your TRT test dosage you dont need any of the above.

Well 1100 it's not that high, actually BP was better with even higher dosage, I already own a BP monitor, but I don't trust readings from it anymore.

The pharmacy it's just 20mt away from home, and they won't even charge anything for the service.

The pulse is increased by the telmisartan, before that resting HR was about 70.

Again I don't think this has anything to do with gear, but I will reduce dosage anyway.

edit: Have you seen the prolactin reading? It's close to 40 ng/ml.

[Mr.BB]

Well 1100 it's not that high, actually BP was better with even higher dosage, I already own a BP monitor, but I don't trust readings from it anymore.

The pharmacy it's just 20mt away from home, and they won't even charge anything for the service.

The pulse is increased by the telmisartan, before that resting HR was about 70.

Again I don't think this has anything to do with gear, but I will reduce dosage anyway.

edit: Have you seen the prolactin reading? It's close to 40 ng/ml.

Dont take my comments here as a critique, I had my total T over 5000, so im not really judging, just trying to help.

What I mean is the the cumulative effect of supraphysiological levels over a period of time. Most BP problems I got was at end of cycles, just my opinion here.

1100 is supraphysiological, if its was peak values I would agree with you, but if not a graphic representation would be more or less like that:



Try a different ARB.

[hammerheart]

Dont take my comments here as a critique, I had my total T over 5000, so im not really judging, just trying to help.

What I mean is the the cumulative effect of supraphysiological levels over a period of time. Most BP problems I got was at end of cycles, just my opinion here.

1100 is supraphysiological, if its was peak values I would agree with you, but if not a graphic representation would be more or less like that:

Try a different ARB.

I don't take it as such.

For what's worth, the graph is for weekly pins. My levels are the "through" at 3.5 days on a 2x weekly protocol. I agree that I'm going over physiological if free T levels are considered, but I don't see my body put under significant stress, especially if you take a look at CBC, hematocrit has even lowered lol. I'm actually afraid I might return anemic if I lower dosage too much.

I must emphasize though I'm overtly stressed/nervous these times.

I'm looking into buying a manual sphygmomanometer, and keep checking to see if high BP persist.

[chab]

Ur blood pressure is not a "little" high, it is stage 2 hypertension which is the highest ...
You need to go to doctor asap, as a clinical pharmacist I suggest u stop caffeine or anything that can increase HR, all stimulants also like taurine and preworkouts.
Ur doctor will probably give u a device that u need to wear for 24 hours and it will make a graph of readings during the 24 hours which determine at what time and state u are hypertensive (working, sitting or even sleeping)
Low dose ARB means that u are already diagnosed with hypertension, switching ARB won't do anything since ALL ARB have the same effects and metabolism in all studies.
My expectations are that ur doctor will double ur ARB dose i guess if u are on low dose Telmisartan which is the 40 mg dose, he will put u on 80 mg and may add a calcium channel blocker like Amlodipine.
I m a board certified pharmacotherapy specialist.

[kelkel]

I'm looking into buying a manual sphygmomanometer

Points just for spelling it correctly.

[Couchlock]

Points just for spelling it correctly.

Speaking of bp,

I took mine yesterday on 10mg cialis and 75 mg/600/500 mg eca stack.

It was 115/80 pulse 89

It scared me, won't be mixing cialis and eca anymore.

Won't excess 50 mg E anymore either....

[hammerheart]

Speaking of bp,

I took mine yesterday on 10mg cialis and 75 mg/600/500 mg eca stack.

It was 115/80 pulse 89

It scared me, won't be mixing cialis and eca anymore.

Won't excess 50 mg E anymore either....

Yday I took 10mg cialis, 5mg more than usual and had less symptoms today, however had no chance to measure BP.

[hammerheart]

Ur blood pressure is not a "little" high, it is stage 2 hypertension which is the highest ...
You need to go to doctor asap, as a clinical pharmacist I suggest u stop caffeine or anything that can increase HR, all stimulants also like taurine and preworkouts.
Ur doctor will probably give u a device that u need to wear for 24 hours and it will make a graph of readings during the 24 hours which determine at what time and state u are hypertensive (working, sitting or even sleeping)
Low dose ARB means that u are already diagnosed with hypertension, switching ARB won't do anything since ALL ARB have the same effects and metabolism in all studies.
My expectations are that ur doctor will double ur ARB dose i guess if u are on low dose Telmisartan which is the 40 mg dose, he will put u on 80 mg and may add a calcium channel blocker like Amlodipine.
I m a board certified pharmacotherapy specialist.

Thank you for lending your professional skills for free.

I recognize the apparel you describe as a pressure holter, yes that can be a good idea.

Low dose telmisartan is self-prescribed, no diagnosis is present, and I believe multiple readings over a period of time are needed, I won't pull "stage 2 hypertension" from just a couple when just few months ago it was normal.

I'd rather wish to avoid a calcium channel blocker.

[hammerheart]

Points just for spelling it correctly.

You know, not dragging you into the conversation, but high BP has been a constant together with other peculiar symptoms since I dropped caber in January, these have been lingering to this day still, but perhaps I'm wrong and it's unrelated.

[kelkel]

You know, not dragging you into the conversation, but high BP has been a constant together with other peculiar symptoms since I dropped caber in January, these have been lingering to this day still, but perhaps I'm wrong and it's unrelated.

Was anything else added or changed in your protocol? I've not seen any study linking caber to elevated BP.

[hammerheart]

Was anything else added or changed in your protocol? I've not seen any study linking caber to elevated BP.

BP on caber was normal, I meant after I quit. There's chance of discontinuation syndrome with any DA, but it's just an hypothesis.

Protocol has been basically the same since november - 250mg Test weekly, no AI until March, then AI but also upped dosage, then down again to 250 but same AI dosage (.5 weekly).

It's worth of note of I gained more than 10lbs of fat over the last two months and another 10 in January, and that obv goes to increase conversion.

[kelkel]

BP on caber was normal, I meant after I quit. There's chance of discontinuation syndrome with any DA, but it's just an hypothesis.

Protocol has been basically the same since november - 250mg Test weekly, no AI until March, then AI but also upped dosage, then down again to 250 but same AI dosage (.5 weekly).

It's worth of note of I gained more than 10lbs of fat over the last two months and another 10 in January, and that obv goes to increase conversion.

Understood what you meant. Have you considered just cutting your T dose in half temporarily to see how you respond?

[hammerheart]

I'm actually tapering the dosage, albeit slowly. I'll see if I feel anywhere human by then. But I don't think test dosage are the issue with BP.

[kelkel]

I'm actually tapering the dosage, albeit slowly. I'll see if I feel anywhere human by then. But I don't think test dosage are the issue with BP.

Worth trying as I think it can play a part. I'd rather see an immediate titration down though for a better assessment.

[hammerheart]

Worth trying as I think it can play a part. I'd rather see an immediate titration down though for a better assessment.

Sudden variations trigger mighty headaches for me and I'm going through some nasty migraine already.

It's a factor for sure but what's the direction. I recall when doing gels for some reason (DHT?) their effect was so relaxing my BP/HR were down to 100/60 and 40, respectively. When doing nebido, I would feel disabled for 1-2 weeks for the same reason. I believe that's also why my BP actually went down to normal (120/80) on 400mg TE.

Heck, not even the tren affected my BP.

[kelkel]

Never had a headache or BP issue personally. But I do remember when I started out on gels I'd get a sort of rush a short while after application. I enjoyed that feeling and felt pretty good on gels. I just could not maintain adequate levels without bathing in in.

[hammerheart]

What I meant was I just want to avoid to go witch hunting, I'm on 200mg weekly and plan to lower but half this value means 100mg and I recall feeling dreadful on this dosage when dropping Tren back in November (through levels 390).

I don't get a rush, it's rather a sedation feeling, but doesn't last much.

[chab]

I am not a physician to diagnose you with hypertension but self-prescribing low dose of ARB means u already had high readings of blood pressure since some time and this is why u decided to do it, And I don't believe hormonal imbalance would lead to 160 systolic reading, maybe only tren or halo when you are cycling but you are not even cycling.
Being already on ARB + multiple high readings = (in my opinion) u require a suitable dose chronic antihypertenisve treatment.

[hammerheart]

I was having readings up to 135/85 but nothing like 160+, btw I agree and will consult a cardiologist if they persist over time.

I don't know if it's related but bw shows high abs lymphocytes count and lymph nodes at the base of the neck got tender, that means I'm getting a thyroiditis flare-up, might well explain what has been going on lately...

[chab]

Well if u got thyroiditis then this is a totally different story and u need to adress it first because all of this could be a symptom of thyroiditis and all will be resolved once ir thyroid levels are back to normal.

[hammerheart]

Well if u got thyroiditis then this is a totally different story and u need to adress it first because all of this could be a symptom of thyroiditis and all will be resolved once ir thyroid levels are back to normal.

Thyroiditis is a different phenomenon than hypothyroidism, I manage the latter with prescribed T4 and T3, but thyroid inflammation will persist with occasional flare-ups.

As for thyroid hormones levels, TSH was suppressed as of March readings, but I've reduced dosages accordingly. Thyroiditis however being an inflammatory disease can spike cortisol levels significantly and that contribute to BP.


Today I measured at home and got 135/85, went at the pharmacy and got 160/100. What's the deal?


It's one huge mess

[hammerheart]

I guess, if ARBs do cause a reflex increase in HR and BP is unaffected, other drugs targeting the renin-angiotensin system like ACE inhibitors will do just the same?

[Chicagotarsier]

In the "real world" it is not an issue until the low end reaches 100. You are "not that bad" but I would suggest an EKG, E2 sensitive.

Everyone I know that does AAS takes an ACE and Beta Blocker.

Dollars to donuts the E2 is high. Donut Holes to cookies you have Tachycardia.

MR BB..... A low end BP machine does not pick up most tachycardia because the irregular rythm reduces by the time it hits the arm and a non-medical BP machine, due to poor sensitivity, usually does not pick up tachycardia..via stethascope or EKG.


Been there done all of this. Have tachycardia only picked up via EKG.

To get your BP down I recommend Nifedipine. There are two forms..fast and slow release. Take the fast release and chew it completely then swallow...wait 20 minutes and you will be under 130/80. (This is the 30 mg pill)

I think your "blast to 400" most likely triggered the sides via higher E2. One thing the heart does not like is changing levels of hormones in an elevated E2 environment.

Good luck. Hope you get better.

[Chicagotarsier]

Today I measured at home and got 135/85, went at the pharmacy and got 160/100. What's the deal?


It's one huge mess

resting BP vs non-resting BP. Both aggravated either by E2 or response mechanism to Thyroiditis or both.

[hammerheart]

In the "real world" it is not an issue until the low end reaches 100. You are "not that bad" but I would suggest an EKG, E2 sensitive.

Yes, I know what is the actual clinical practice, it's even more lax in my country I believe, 1/6th of the pop. is affected by hypertension, that means it's almost "normal" to be so.

I used to be well over 100 in the past btw, readings were consistently 150-160 for systolic and 110-100 for diastolic. I was obese though.

Everyone I know that does AAS takes an ACE and Beta Blocker.

Dollars to donuts the E2 is high. Donut Holes to cookies you have Tachycardia.

I'm not a fan of beta blockers, I see no point when I'm on T3, I'd just drop the T3. But I already struggle to stay awake six hours straight...

Been there done all of this. Have tachycardia only picked up via EKG.

To get your BP down I recommend Nifedipine. There are two forms..fast and slow release. Take the fast release and chew it completely then swallow...wait 20 minutes and you will be under 130/80. (This is the 30 mg pill)

I think your "blast to 400" most likely triggered the sides via higher E2. One thing the heart does not like is changing levels of hormones in an elevated E2 environment.

Good luck. Hope you get better.

Thank you.

I believe this issue to be entirely "secondary", hence it would foolish imo to just band-patch it and not address the root causes.

As for my "blast", it lasted less than a month, within which I experienced a normalization of pressor readings (120/80). Test numbs me down, and I believe this issue to be primarily from increased sympathetic tone, most likely from E2 (hence higher DHT levels might somewhat compensate), or swaying levels of, not sure if your read the whole thread but I've managed to gain 25 lbs of fat over the last two months, enough to boost aromatization through the roof.

resting BP vs non-resting BP. Both aggravated either by E2 or response mechanism to Thyroiditis or both.

Thyroiditis, being a chronic inflammatory disorder it will spike cortisol, which can be a factor, and direct the conversion of T4 into RT3, thus causing T3 to pool around and do nothing, maybe that's why I got bw showing very high FT3 back in March, yet was having no symptoms of hyperthyroidism, and gained lot of fat instead, not to mention my appetite is absent. Intracellular hypothyrodism is a possibility, I can also say I've developed a moon face, and can also cause peripheral resistance, leading to hypertension. Lowering T4 might help in that case.

I need to introduce more anti-inflammatory factors to manage it I guess.

About E2, yes my CV is extremely sensitive to it, my whole system is (including CNS), one skipped AI dose and I'll feel like my chest is going to pop from palpitations, just with moderately paced walking...

[hammerheart]

Tapered TRT dosage down to 65mg 2x weekly, estimated through levels 500-600 ng/dl.

Home BP readings have been consistently 130-80, just like before.

Tried to up telmisartan yday night, this morning I woke dog fatigued, barely managed to move and my BP was even a tad higher: 140/90.

I wonder if this is just another of my weird reactions to drugs.


And oh, now my dick is not working even with the 10mg cialis. Also got horrendous gyno-looking chest, sometimes I will notice my t-shirt to be soaked from nipple discharge.

[DocToxin8]

140/90 BP at home doesn't have to mean it's that bad.
Take it upon waking, if it's closer to 130/80 then I'd just start with some cardio.

Nipple discharge; well that ain't good.
Have had it before my gyno op, especially when using a D2 antagonist medication. (Which as a side effect increased prolactin)

I'd give your hormone levels some time to rest,
as your high'ish cruise dose, fat gain, and lack of cardio are all factors here.
Not to mention stress as you say.
Got no experience with tyrioditis, but just the other variables are enough.

When I've been very stressed I'd have to reduce AAS dose to feel better.
My BP is usually fine, and I use an ACE.

Time to take care of yourself it seems;
Try to lower stress
Lower AAS
Increase cardio
Lose fat
=problem solved (I'm willing to bet)

[hammerheart]

We will see then Doc, that was my plan.

As for stress, lowering T is making me feel even more so and absurdly irritable. I tried benzos, but guess what, paradox reactions.

The issue with the recent cruise is it made me feel rather depressed and lethargic, much more fatigued, so that my activity levels eventually dropped. I'll never run high Test + AI anymore, as this is what happens everytime I attempted TRT this way.

There is only one med able to chill me out and those are D2 agonist. Cabergoline f.ex has a serious relaxing effect on my brain. In fact, I started getting there readings after quitting caber back in January.

I will drop the ARB as well, it's doing no good.

[DocToxin8]

We will see then Doc, that was my plan.

As for stress, lowering T is making me feel even more so and absurdly irritable. I tried benzos, but guess what, paradox reactions.

The issue with the recent cruise is it made me feel rather depressed and lethargic, much more fatigued, so that my activity levels eventually dropped. I'll never run high Test + AI anymore, as this is what happens everytime I attempted TRT this way.

There is only one med able to chill me out and those are D2 agonist. Cabergoline f.ex has a serious relaxing effect on my brain. In fact, I started getting there readings after quitting caber back in January.

I will drop the ARB as well, it's doing no good.

On one hand your saying you can't go low (to TRT) asthat makes you irritable,
on the other you say high T + AI makes you lethargic and depressed?
Seems like you should just opt for normal T levels and see what other causes there are for these issues.

The ARB isn't doing anything in that dose at least.
I would, btw, go for ACE not ARB.
Makes more sense to me to stop Ang2 from being formed in excess than to block it at receptors, kinda like AI vs nolvadex .
ACE's also increase bradykinin, might help.

But real problem: diet.
(Or diet and activity)
You don't gain that much fat if this isn't somehow off.
So fix that. And BP should go down just by that.

D2 agonists calm you down?
Then use them.
I can't see any issues by using caber for long term.

It's not uncommon that dopaminergics calm you down/lift mood in atypical depression.
I don't have to feel depressed either for small doses of Ritalin to calm me down,
but I've always been somewhat of a basket case,
though I do think this would apply to many.

Anyways, you know very well you can't let BF increase and just pile on T,
that will just aggravate it.

Just set the course you know you'll have to take, and go for it.

[Couchlock]

Tapered TRT dosage down to 65mg 2x weekly, estimated through levels 500-600 ng/dl.

Home BP readings have been consistently 130-80, just like before.

Tried to up telmisartan yday night, this morning I woke dog fatigued, barely managed to move and my BP was even a tad higher: 140/90.

I wonder if this is just another of my weird reactions to drugs.

And oh, now my dick is not working even with the 10mg cialis. Also got horrendous gyno-looking chest, sometimes I will notice my t-shirt to be soaked from nipple discharge.

Jesus

[DocToxin8]

Jesus

Yup.
With all your symptoms going on Biz,
I'd try to take care of both the obvious physical problems (like diet->E2 issues),
as well as psychological.
I know from my own experiences that I can feel like shit and everything is normal on BW, and it can turn out that some of the symptoms are either caused or exaggerated by mental stress/issues.

When somebody says; it's just in your head,
they don't realize how connected brain and body really is.

So apart from what you've listed here and will correct,
Think about ways to improve your well being.
Chances are that if you increase well-being/lower stress,
some of the more "strange" symptoms will go away.

Don't take this as a disbelief that your symptoms are real,
but rather that in addition to physical issues, or somatic, the psychological can't always be separated from them.
Somatic issues affect psychogenic and the other way around.
I know this from first hand experience and it's not about being mentally weak or anything.

Just wanted to throw it in there, (as you really got a lot of symptoms)
best of luck.

[hammerheart]

Yup.
With all your symptoms going on Biz,
I'd try to take care of both the obvious physical problems (like diet->E2 issues),
as well as psychological.
I know from my own experiences that I can feel like shit and everything is normal on BW, and it can turn out that some of the symptoms are either caused or exaggerated by mental stress/issues.

When somebody says; it's just in your head,
they don't realize how connected brain and body really is.

So apart from what you've listed here and will correct,
Think about ways to improve your well being.
Chances are that if you increase well-being/lower stress,
some of the more "strange" symptoms will go away.

Don't take this as a disbelief that your symptoms are real,
but rather that in addition to physical issues, or somatic, the psychological can't always be separated from them.
Somatic issues affect psychogenic and the other way around.
I know this from first hand experience and it's not about being mentally weak or anything.

Just wanted to throw it in there, (as you really got a lot of symptoms)
best of luck.

I'm not sure what symptoms you refer to though.

Most of my troubles commenced four years ago with TRT. At this point, I just regret I listened to docs and didn't go my way instead.

As for the high BP, I doubt my mind can fake them. The high PRL, I can show you recent bloodwork.

I don't feel well indeed on "normal" T levels, but bear with me, it's evident at this point something doesn't work like it should - take for example facial hair, I barely managed to get it grow on 400mg weekly (and it used to grow normally), it went sparse with low T and never returned to former glory.

Even my former endo mentioned the AR could be misbehaving because of poor response.

Increasing well-being has always been my goal but it's a damn of though one. But, I believe I've done my best at least for the psychological part, I'm a major depression "veteran" after all.

For the rest, the problem is I don't really bother. In fact, I'm still gaining fat. Why you might ask? It's simple, I can't bother enough.

[canadian77]

I just got freaked out and tested my blood pressure.

126/65 with a pulse of 62.

Must be the fish oil and the magnesium I have been taking daily! I'm currently on a Test E cycle @ 600MG/week on the 10th week and my BP numbers are not concerning at all!

[TRA]

Bizzarro - where are you currently at regarding this BP issue?

[hammerheart]

Bizzarro - where are you currently at regarding this BP issue?

130/80 @home. Maybe I just get anticipatory anxiety when I measure at pharmacy.

[hollowedzeus]

130/80 @home. Maybe I just get anticipatory anxiety when I measure at pharmacy.

White coat syndrome its called. One of my immediate family has this. His systolic blood pressure has exceeded 200 with the diastolic being 160 to 170 several times.

Pretty scary... had to video him for months doing home tests to prove he was fine.

Edited the diastolic wasnt that high. Asked. Was more like 110

[TRA]

130/80 @home. Maybe I just get anticipatory anxiety when I measure at pharmacy.

I would suggest taking your home unit with you and measuring at pharmacy (again, only if your arm does NOT fit snugly in cuff prior to inflation, if it does your arms are too big and you will get a falsely elevated reading) to see what if any the discrepancy is. Cannot assume home unit is reliable. If home unit is wrist cuff even less reliable, but arm cuff maybe okay. Kind of need to calibrate. BEST is to take to office where manual pressure is done and check home unit that way. Just want to make sure you're getting good info from the readings!

[hammerheart]

White coat syndrome its called. One of my immediate family has this. His systolic blood pressure has exceeded 200 with the diastolic being 160 to 170 several times.

Pretty scary... had to video him for months doing home tests to prove he was fine.

Edited the diastolic wasnt that high. Asked. Was more like 110

No white coats there. Female pharmacists are quite pretty actually. Maybe that's the problem...